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Figwit
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Post TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 01, 2004 12:16
Caps for the sequences discussed here areThe King of the Golden Hall/ Théodred's Funeral, Brego, The Ring of Barahir and One of the Dúnedain / The Evenstar.

It's a lot of scenes, so go take a look at the caps - Beleg_S did a great job!

Possible topics:
- Gríma spitting
- Théodred's funeral (was it necessary, was it moving, did you start laughing when Miranda started to sing?)
- more on Théoden (both with Gamling and with Aragorn): does it help his character
- the Ring of Barahir: what's the influence of this scene on the general conception?
- of course: the stew - out of character? rockingly funny?
- and why did they cut out those crucial three seconds from the Evenstar scene?

And, the question: I prefer
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 01, 2004 01:49
I chose the 'Evenstar-scene', because there was no option "EE for all added scenes". In spite of those who think that Arwen's role was too extended throughout the trilogy, I still think it is very important to show *why* Aragorn takes his actions as he does.

I think the funeral of Théodred was a beautiful scene, a sad scene, but not a necessary scene. Same with the 'stew'-scene. I found it incredibly funny and it gives a little bit more from the books (for example Aragorn's age). But it also gives Éowyn more time to 'stalk' Aragorn, which does not please me. I suppose Eowyn fans do not agree with me about this, but do not get me wrong: I am glad it is in the EE.

In TTT, I thought Théoden was a bit too much a whining old man instead of a king. I cannot blame him, for he went through a lot of problems. It is just that in the books, he seemed stronger to me, even after what happened.
The little conversation with Gamling shows a bit of the strength of Théoden and the conversation with Aragorn gives a bit more information about Éowyn, and I am glad to see both scenes.

The scenes of Gríma and Saruman were good. It also provides a good deal of background information, especially the 'ring of barahir' scene. Too bad, there is no more information (for example: *why* is it important that Saruman thinks that Gandalf thinks that the heir of Númenor is found?). I hope the EE of RotK will explain this further.
The spitting of Gríma disgusted me, but I think it shows his state of mind. It also shows the mercy Aragorn is willing to give, even to those who proved to be his enemies.
snowystingray
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 01, 2004 09:43
I agree, there should have been an all of the above choice! Ultimately, I went with the funeral scene. It was so moving and beautiful in a melancholy sort of way. I know there were a lot of different opinions about Eowyn's singing, but I thought it was very appropriate and she did a wonderful job with it. I think my second favourite addition would have to be the scene with Brego. It explains SO MUCH about all of the confusing horsey stuff that was going on in TTT, and it was a nice sort of Aragorn/Eowyn moment.
Legolas{Greenleaf}
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 01, 2004 10:14
It's been so long since I last saw the Extended Edition, but the Brego scene does stick out as one of my favorites. It shows the audience that Aragorn did in fact grow up among elves, though it just gives Eowyn another reason to like him. I can see why they cut it out, as their was not much action, but I'm glad they included it.

Peace~
Nevthónîel
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 01, 2004 10:32
I voted for Theodred's funeral, 'cause I actually loved when Miranda sang. I think that Old English is very beautiful. Nothing to laugh at really...At least I don't think so. Well, the singing might have been a little too much, but still...
It doesn't make the whole thing worse that Theodred is a real hottie

The stew scene is brilliant - I really laughed hard the first time. Miranda Otto is unbelieveable, I can hardly imagine her as anyone else than Éowyn. If I met her on the street I'd probably scream something stupid like "ÉOWYN!".
For those who haven't read the books, they can get to know a little bit more of Aragorn, his age and his background without getting to much facts to handle. And Viggo Mortensen acts amazing in that scene when he's trying to pretend that the stew was good.

The Gríma spitting scene was quite good, I really like the was Brad Dourif portrays him, perfect. He's probably the character that is most as I imagined when I read the books. Go Gríma!

I agree so much with Eruantalincë, Theoden seems too old and broken in some way. He did seem a lot stronger and more brave in the books. But don't blame Bernard Hill, I think it's PJ who changed this actually. Though I'd love to see a more brave Theoden - more like in RotK, where he's brilliant at times. The RotK EE will be extremely interesting!
Figwit
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 01, 2004 12:17
These scenes are amongst my favourites on the EE. Not because of their content (I couldn't care less about horses, or what exactly it is that Éowyn sees in Aragorn), but mainly because of the brilliant cinematography in them: the colour schemes are just brilliant and get you in a melancholy mood that borders between a deep longing and a great sadness. The most amazing example of this is Théodred's funeral: I felt like I was watching a historical movie, and at the same time it was a bit like coming home – I had been there before, in that country. The slightly golden touch in the lighting, combined with the slow-motion shots of the body being carried down the hill (it closely resembles a funeral boat being carried down a river of people – and that's probably not a coincidence) and that incredible song Éowyn sings – it all added up to make one of the most breathtakingly beautiful scenes in the entire trilogy.

But lets go methodically . First of all, Gríma: I found that unnecessary. We already established that Gríma was a filthy little snake, and I don't think we needed to see him actually spit at Aragorn. Of course I do understand the dramatic meaning of that gesture, but it annoyed me to no end.

Théodred's funeral is, like I said above, one of the most beautiful scenes in the entire trilogy – though I didn't like it as such. I found it quite unnecessary, because we'd already seen Éomer and Éowyn's grief over their cousins death (well, not Éomer's, but we can extrapolate that from his behaviour when the prince was still alive); and the theatrical version has that immensely beautiful scene with the simbelmyne – not my favourite scene, but Bernard Hill is great in it and we do get an idea of how he feels.
I also found it irritating that Legolas, Gandalf and Aragorn were in the funeral suite – though it provides us with some beautiful shots of our trio, they seem out of place; they are intruding in something that belongs to the Rohirrim.
That said, the scene as such is just stunning: the lighting and the very special camera angles make out the largest part of the amazing atmosphere that hangs over this scene, and for those who can't remember any special angles – take a look at Beleg_S's screencaps.
Of course, the most impressive moment is Éowyn's song, which is indeed both beautiful and heart-wrenching. The lyrics – taken from Beowulf – are not only apt but form a nice salute to the professor: Tolkien, who studied the Germanic mythologies in depth, based the culture of the Rohirrim on the early medieval Danes, and it is from this culture 'Beowulf' arose. Also, it's a reminder of the books which are often adorned with poetry and songs, which creates the feeling of living cultures and ancient lore.

I wasn't thrilled about the Brego scene: I don't like horses, and I found it rather disrespectful to the Rohirrim to let a perfect stranger be the only one capable of soothing a horse – after all, horses are the centre of and the key to the Rohirric culture.
That said, I did like Éowyn in this scene, because she looked very young – in the books she's only 20 or something, while in the movie she is clearly performed by a woman well over thirty.

I did like the part where Gríma describes the Ring of Barahir to Saruman – as someone pointed out (can't remember who – I think it was Brad Dourif on the EE) it shows that Gríma might be a little smarter than most people think – he did notice Aragorn's ring, and he probably remembered it or knew what it was instantly, or else he wouldn't have described it to Saruman.
It also shows how certain Saruman is getting: he's not afraid of a possible heir of Elendil re-appearing all of a sudden. Saruman thinks he's the mightiest person in Middle-earth, or close to it, and he's becoming careless.

I also liked the extra bits on Théoden, especially his conversation with Aragorn. It's very easy to look at him as a weakling in TTT because most of his part was re-written so Aragorn would come out looking great (though ROTK restores him, I feel), but these scenes show that he is indeed a leader, but also a loving man who will long remember his own weakness.
Another thing I have to mention here is that I liked Théoden's quarters. And I still don't like Gamling.

I voted for Éowyn's stew (referred to on the DVD as 'One of the Dúnedain'). It was hysterical. It was also very out of character – and at the same time it was not.
In the books, Éowyn waits on Théoden when the company is still in Meduseld, and as she does she shows a great interest in Aragorn and he in turn realises this and tries to be polite but still give her the cold shoulder, in a way.
Something similar happens here. As I also said in the Gallery, Éowyn has probably never seen an Elf or a Dwarf before, and I can imagine she is looking for a way to make contact with the four strangers. Gandalf's very intimidating, and him she knows because he's been in Edoras before – but we see her talking to Gimli and Aragorn in a friendly manner when they are journeying, and before she offers the stew to Aragorn she also offers it to Gimli.
Besides, when I'm infatuated with someone, I find strange ways of approaching them too .

That said, I just adore this scene because it was funny in a heart-warming way. Much of the comic relief PJ has put into this movies is a bit forced and I don't always find it amusing. My favourite moments are often very little scenes where characters stop being characters and do something very natural and real. For example, there's Boromir dropping the shards of Narsil (he's being a clumsy oaf and a stubborn one at that), him teaching the Hobbits how to fight, the 'cave-troll' comment, Arwen's angry and hurt look when Aragorn tries to return the Evenstar to her, Sam having that box of salt with him, Gandalf putting an arm around Pippin when the beacon of Minas Morgul is 'lit', Aragorn hurrying across the courtyard when the beacons of Gondor reach Edoras...
These are bits and pieces of ordinary life slipping through the mazes of an intricate and often high-brow story; and that's what I adore about this movie – it's something Tolkien lacks, and it's the one thing that makes these movies so very good imho.
And this scene has that quality too: this is something that feels very real and down to earth. Here's a noble woman who tried to fix a meal on the road (probably with not too many provisions) and failed; and a very honourable man who doesn't want to hurt her feelings. Not just that, but his reaction to her asking about his age is just sweet: there's some magic there (both in the fact that he's sort of a mythical figure, and the interaction between the two actors) that just jumps off the screen and touches you.
It's a warm scene in a very dark and cold movie – and I love it, non-canon as it is.
One last comment: the background and scenery in this scene are breathtaking and make me want to be there – it must have been a great help to be able to shoot it in such an untamed and beautiful landscape.

The Evenstar is a close second, because I really liked those missing 5 seconds. I know that very little was added, but I really felt like it restored the scene and showed Aragorn's concern and Arwen's determination a lot better.
I also adored the fact that Aragorn is shown trying to sneak off, trying to avoid the confrontation. Of course it's out of character, but the entire movie character is out of character, and it strangely fits *this* Aragorn to be so reluctant about facing her.
Arwen is great in The Two Towers – I have no problems with her appearance. And especially in this scene Liv Tyler proves that she is indeed an actress, and not some model looking good.
I also adore the colours used in this scene (yeah, it's repetitive, but it needs saying), and the way we see Arwen and Aragorn in the shadows, and in profile. The heavy mood that is created this way really fits the contrast between the hope brought by the Fellowships departure (as you'll remember from FOTR EE, this is filmed in bright colours and full, golden daylight), and the sacrifices both Arwen and Aragorn are willing to make in the margin of this grand event. It also mimics the place of their tale in the entire story.

Okay, I talked more than enough about these scenes already. Sorry about that, but I just love it.
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: June 04, 2004 09:12
I chose the stew scene cause that is just hilarious, but If I could choose another it would be my theoden's talk with Aragorm. I love that. Poor Theo.. he thinks he should have treated Eowyn more like his own daughter.
I love the line.
"...doomed to wait upon an old man, who should have loved her as a father."
very moving scene for my Theo.
Aervir
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: June 04, 2004 10:19
What could I add to this thread after Figwit's detailed and absolutely brilliant analysis?
In my opinion all of the Rohan scenes were among the best in the entire trilogy (wonderful landscape, stunning cinematography, Howard Shore's Rohan theme played by a Norwegian fiddle, the whole Northern/Anglo-Saxon feeling), so it was very hard for me to decide on one of the details, but I finally voted for Théodred's funeral! It created such a strong impression of the Rohirric culture and provided a very appropriate link to Bernard Hill's wonderful simbelmyne speech. And, of course, there was Éowyn's song. I didn't think it funny and hilarious at all, just to the contrary: You saw her performing an important task of a Rohirric woman - being the one who mourns the dead and remembers their deeds.
And I had recognized the Old English right away, and I was so happy about this nod to Tolkien (though I learned only much later that she sings actually a version of some lines from Beowulf)!
But Éowyn's stew was a close second. And I don't think I could add anything to Figwit here:


I just adore this scene because it was funny in a heart-warming way. Much of the comic relief PJ has put into this movies is a bit forced and I don't always find it amusing. My favourite moments are often very little scenes where characters stop being characters and do something very natural and real.


She just felt so ...normal here that I could really relate to her. Moreover, if you have ever tasted any of my meals, you would know why I found this scene so wildly amusing.

[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Aervir]
FatalBeauty
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: February 10, 2005 03:41
Well, I'm the only one who voted for Gríma's spitting. I'm odd; I love that. It's so brilliant because that shows Gríma's wicked side. The spitting is so "wormish"
Figwit
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: July 16, 2007 09:29
I'm bringing this back up, merely to say that I utterly adore Éowyn's song. It's been years now, and it still moves me so much. I really think it's one of the smartest and most profound additions to Éowyn's character.
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: July 20, 2007 03:18
I liked the scene between Theoden and Aragorn when they're talking about Eowyn. It' brings in a little more depth both Eowyn's character and Theoden's, I think.

I do also love Eowyn's song Figwit. That would have been my second choice.
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
MerryandPip
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: August 18, 2007 03:20
The EE because of the Ring of Barahir.

Took me forever to figure out the significance of this scene 'cuz the first time I saw TTT was long before I had become a Middle-Earth History geek and read The Silmarillion.

But I like how PJ sneaked some ME history in there...
crystalarwen
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Post RE: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: August 25, 2009 04:14
I voted for the Extended Evenstar sequence because I thought it filled in alot more holes left from the theatrical trailer.

My friends and I laughed so hard when Miranda started singing during Theodred's funeral. We could not stop even when the scene had finished. It was so funny.

I actually thought the scene with Wormtongue spitting allowed the viewers to see just how bitter he was and how angry he felt towards Rohan.
Sassyfriend
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Post Re: TTT EE Sequence by sequence #5: Edoras
on: September 20, 2012 09:14
I loved the stew scene too gets me laughing everytime! Poor Aragorn I know exactly how he feels about having something you think is gross in your mouth and i love his facial expressions too I howl with laughter!
Also love the Brego scene
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