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Evenstar
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Post I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 04, 2004 12:39
Ok, I didn't know where to put this so I apologize if it's in the wrong place!

When I first read the books, I didn't like Boromir all that much. He tried to take the Ring from Frodo and he just made me nervous. Since I saw the film, I have to say that I have changed: I believe. Sean Bean made me believe in Boromir. I find that I've become obsessed with him (and the brothers Mir in general)...

Was this the same for anyone else or am I alone?
Moonwalker
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 04, 2004 09:35
You're not alone. I didn't really like Boromir in the books and I didn't pay much attention to him, but when I saw him in the movies... Sean Bean made amazing job. I mean...I totally understand Boromir now. I know why he was acting in a way he did and I don't blame him about it at all. Tolkien didn't describe his feelings and somehow he made Boromir too distant. Sean Bean made him more human. Great work Sean . In some scenes, he was more grumpy in the movie but that don't bother me.

[Edited on 5/2/2004 by Moonwalker]
Eyebrows_of_doom
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 05, 2004 03:43
As much as I love Tolkien’s work, he wasn’t much of a character writer. A lot of the characters in the books can seem rather distant and it’s difficult to relate to them on a personal level – this was the problem that I had with canon-Boromir (and Aragorn too, but that’s really a different argument altogether). I don’t remember feeling much when I read that he died.

Thankfully, Sean Bean changed all that for me. He really gave the role a more multi-faceted edge than he had before...he was aristocratic, playful, dark, vulnerable...all different assets that made him a far more human – and, ultimately, far more likable – character. That’s a tribute to not only Sean’s brilliant acting, but also to PJ’s inspired directing ability.

It's great to see Boromir getting the respect that he deserves.
Elbereth339
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 05, 2004 03:53
At first when I saw Fotr and read the books I hated Boromir. I saw the TTT EE and I saw a side of him that we hadn't seen before. I think now when I rewatch FotR and reread the books I see that wonderful side of him.
Figwit
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 06, 2004 01:59
I loved Boromir in the books, he was one of the reasons why I became obsessed. I didn't like Sean Bean the first two times I saw FOTR, but the third time - during the council scene - something clicked and all of a sudden I could really see Boromir despite the blonde hair.

I think one of the most impressive acting performances throughouth the trilogy is Bean's: he's managed to convey a lot more with his body language and his voice than what his lines tell us. Even though Boromir's character was utterly changed, the core is still there and people have a clearer understanding of him now.

I for one am utterly grateful for that, and I hope that people who now pick up the books can see Boromir in a different light.
haldiroflothlorien
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 06, 2004 05:22
like so many i didn't read the books before seeing the movie. I'm currently working on the book. It's the hardcover one that weighs a ton with all three books in it. When i read Boromir's death scene i was so engrossed because i was thinking of Sean Bean's performance. I've seen him in Goldeneye and he is one of those rare actors that doesn't care how much money he makes on a role....he puts his heart into the part and becomes that role. Like Hugo Weaving...kudos to him for playing both an evil agent and an elf lord at almost the same time. Those actors are what makes a movie so good.
But i digress.....i think Peter Jackson really nailed the death scene of Boromir the Brave in the movie.Boromir's death was supposed to redeem him of trying to take the Ring from Frodo since he was protecting Merry and Pip....who just stood there and got captured anyway....but Boromir the Brave died in peace....
haldir_karma
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 06, 2004 06:44
After I read the first book my fave character was Boromir because I didn't understand him completely since, like others here have said, Tolkien didn't go into depth about the characters. When the movies came out, I saw Sean. And then I understood the missing part of Boromir. In the book, the pages couldn't form a screen for us and show us the emotion on his face and the look in his eyes when he tried to take the ring from Frodo. I believe that seeing him and the raw emotion on his face is what helped us grow to him even more.
glory2glorfindel
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 11, 2004 04:09
I think, since no one has mentioned it, that i must say that his death song is probably the one i missed most in the movies. He was such a wonderful character, and how i imagined that song was so... representative of him. Not that i'm dying to see/hear orli try to sing, but i woulda loved it if they had included that...
Also, i'm not exactly what one would call a movie person, and i don't really watch all that many movies, so i have no idea how sean bean is in other movies, but i loved his performance in FotR (haven't seen TTTEE yet), and he was so, perfect. *tries, once again, to convince self that Sean B. isn't dead* *fails* (Isn't it odd that one can see pix of him, alive, and still be convinced that he's dead?)
Gilwen_the_Sorceress
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 11, 2004 04:43

Movie´s improvement or underdevelopment in characters has nothing to do with Tolkien´s vision, (and yes I think books do describe well those characters in FOTR, if they are not so deep, so the characters are not so interesting to readers as anothers) nobody can say now movie shows what books doesn´t !!! Boromir is as you all have perceived reading the books, so movies came and made of him a nicer man...but it doesn´t mean that´s the true with Tolkien, it´s PJ-crew vision not exactly the real story written in books by the autor, the creator of those characters.

So, don´t say movie made the true Boromir, if you like him better for for some changes and adds in movies you liked movie´s vision, that´s all. There´s characters movie version, nothing to do in being better in movies than in books.
Lady_Laurendil
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 11, 2004 10:13
Yes, while I believe that the character from a book depends entirely on the perception one from their own personal reading, it is also influenced greatly by the manner in which it is potrayed. And although Tolkien had great vision in creating this entire new race, place, lores and such, there was not much to the actual 'behind the face' discussion. It is, after all, a huge book (in other words, not putting blame or anything, but simply stating a fact).

The movie version of Boromir was as perceived by PJ/crew and Sean and it's really great that they had expanded on his character. Even more in the TTT EE, where you could see the love and bond between the brothers even though Denethor clearly favoured Boromir. And Boromir was the one that was constantly thinking of the Hobbits (teaching Merry and Pippin to fight, carrying them in the snow at the Pass and even saying things like, "It will be the death of the Hobbits" and after escaping Moria, he implored Aragorn to let the Hobbits have some moment of peace).

The best was when, after trying to get the ring from Frodo, he seemed to have broken out of a trance ... making it seem that it was not the true Boromir but the Boromir under the influence of the Ring. And he redeemed himself by sacrificing himself ... he was, and is, a truly honorable man. From the book, I just got the impression that he was an arragont person intent on gaining power.
Figwit
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 11, 2004 11:16
Gilwen, I just *had* to react. It's people like you that give bookies a bad name.

Tolkien himself thought of Boromir on the same level as of Denethor and Saruman - he names them all together when he's talking about evil and treason in his books.
He didn't think very highly of this character, and he doesn't offer too much attention to him. Half of the time he only has to mutter that he doesn't agree, but will come along.
When Frodo encounters Faramir, the Ranger says as much as: 'My brother was a no good arrogant bastard, but I loved him all the same.'

A lot of bookies (I am not the only one), feel that Tolkien didn't know what kind of character Boromir really was. And that is altogether possible.
When you write like Tolkien did - uncalculated, with no characters or events in mind for future chapters - it happens very often that you create someone you yourself like or dislike, but others percieve in a different light because they are able to see other links, other meanings.
Things you didn't necessarily put into the story or the character yourself can suddenly appear very important to a vast number of readers.

That said, I have always believed that Boromir was a kind man, caring, wise, but troubled by his difficult relationship with his father (and brother) and suffering from the weight of responsibility.
To me, the most heroic act in Book 2 is Boromir's return to the rest of the Fellowship after trying to kill Frodo - because I can't picture anyone doing that.

Now I am very certain Tolkien wouldn't agree with me. But that doesn't mean it's not there: a lot of people, without interacting with eachother, find the very same thing there. A lot of readers see Boromir as one of the most interesting and realistic characters in the trilogy.
Because they read between the lines.

But a movie can't read between the lines. So Jackson visualised what was already there.
Boromir's three conversations with Aragorn (all three non-canon) are amongst the best of FOTR and show some things Tolkien doesn't tell us directly: Boromir's difficult relationship to lore and tradition (an effect of his relationship with his father) and his unease amongst non-humans, his love for Minas Tirith, his despair and - very well-done - his doubts about Aragorn's qualities as a leader (when he attacks Aragorn about his fear of his own humanity, he strikes a chord of something that is not adressed in the book, but there nonetheless).



So, don´t say movie made the true Boromir, if you like him better for for some changes and adds in movies you liked movie´s vision, that´s all. There´s characters movie version, nothing to do in being better in movies than in books.


Why not? Boromir wás better in the movies than the books, because he required less thinking, less conceptualisation and less effort tout court: he was easily accessible to vast numbers of people.
Book Boromir takes a lot of insight and skill to access or - if you're in my case - a special kind of 'falling in love' - and I did fall in love with Boromir when I read those books. To me, there's nothing like him blowing his horn setting out from Rivendell or throwing rocks in the lake.

But Jackson bared Boromir's essence, an essence even Tolkien overlooked, and I can only applaud him for that.

One of the 'flaws' in Tolkien's writing is that he often underestimates his own characters and sorts them under black&white when they're not: when you read what he has to say about some of his own creation, I can't help but blink - the professor was a genius, but he never knew it.

Jackson did, and brought it out. There's nothing in the movie for Boromir that wasn't there in the books - but the movies did improve the character imho.
Rethehare
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 12, 2004 09:58
Long aplause for Figwit.

What Peter and Sean did to Boromir was to show us what we missed in the book, and to learn and understand more about him.
When I was reading the books I just sort of skipped Boromir. First impresion I don't like him so why bother. Only after the film I realized that he was not so bad, that there is no reason not to like him.
neowyn
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: February 12, 2004 02:25
I think Figwit read my mind in two points
To me, the most heroic act in Book 2 is Boromir's return to the rest of the Fellowship after trying to kill Frodo - because I can't picture anyone doing that

Boromir's three conversations with Aragorn (all three non-canon) are amongst the best of FOTR and show some things Tolkien doesn't tell us directly: Boromir's difficult relationship to lore and tradition (an effect of his relationship with his father) and his unease amongst non-humans, his love for Minas Tirith, his despair and - very well-done - his doubts about Aragorn's qualities as a leader (when he attacks Aragorn about his fear of his own humanity, he strikes a chord of something that is not adressed in the book, but there nonetheless).


I absolutely love Boromir, because his is so HUMAN. I can't find a better way to explain that... I think Figwit did a great job doing for me. He is incredibly human, and one of the best I've seen.

And Sean Bean is one hell of an actor, he did an amazing job, he captured the things I love most about Boromir: his pride, bravery, confusion, his love for Merry and Pippin, his loyalty to Gondor and the huge pressure he had from his father and people. His dying scene is still something that moves every inch of my body, and the scenes in the TT EE are brilliant. He is a man for whom one would feel admiration and feel safe knowing he is taking care of your country.

I love Boromir, his core, so movie or book, being as different as they are, are made of the same matter, which I love

[Edited on 13/2/2004 by neowyn]
EruanwenSaeriel
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 16, 2004 06:47
I agree wholeheartedly with Figwit's take on this complex character. Sean Bean really did bring the character to life. Tolkien is often criticized for the fact that some of his characters are one-dimensional and flat. Sean Bean shows us that there is more to Boromir than what was shown on the page.

I think something has to be said to about the technical skill in which this movie was edited/cut. The death scene was so shocking and believable because of how the editor (I can't remember his name offhand) cut the scene. There is a spot in the appendices where he says that he is proud of that scene - Peter Jackson had wanted to be there to cut it and ran out of time - so he did it himself. Lurtz stalking arrogantly down the hill, each of those arrows impacting upon his body (particularly the last one where they only show Boromir's face), all shocking and riveting.

The death scene (even though it had a couple of continuity problems - his hand was on Aragorn's shoulder in Sean's scenes - not on his shoulder in Viggo's scenes) was some of the best acting I've seen - the simplicity of the lines - the "cheesy" sentiments that weren't cheesy because of the delivery - Sean's wish to have the "my brother, my captain, my king" line included (they were going to cut it) - all brought home to me Sean Bean's understanding of the character.

Best movie scene I think I have every seen - I've watched it many times now, and it moves me still.
Evenstar
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 16, 2004 07:50
Figwit... you took the words right out of my mouth - and you probably said one heck of a lot better than I would have!

Since I saw the films and re-read the books (3x), I find that I see things that I missed the first time around. Especially where Boromir is concerned. As you said, Figwit, Faramir says, essentially "'My brother was a no good arrogant bastard, but I loved him all the same." All right, so he tried to take the Ring from Frodo. All right he's arrogant/proud. But his brother loved him inspite of it all; so there must have been something to love. Again, when you really pay attention to the books and you see the little details that Tolkien threw in (perhaps without realizing it), you can see glimmers of what PJ & Sean Bean brought to life so brilliantly.

Eruanwen, I also have to agree with you about Boromir's death scene. Every time I watch it, something inside me seizesup. Tears pour down my face and I just ache like my heart is being torn in two. It is, I think, one of the most disturbing and beautiful scenes in the films. All I can think about Boromir at that point is "That is knighthood."

Evenstar
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 16, 2004 05:42
I definatly changed my opinion of Boromir after that scene in the EE of TTT.
I didn't like him before that, but that flash back scene made me change my mind.
Figwit
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 17, 2004 01:56
The death scene (even though it had a couple of continuity problems - his hand was on Aragorn's shoulder in Sean's scenes - not on his shoulder in Viggo's scenes) was some of the best acting I've seen - the simplicity of the lines - the "cheesy" sentiments that weren't cheesy because of the delivery - Sean's wish to have the "my brother, my captain, my king" line included (they were going to cut it) - all brought home to me Sean Bean's understanding of the character.


The first time I saw that scene, I really didn't like it - and I really didn't like Sean Bean: I had lived with the book for so long that I couldn't look past the blonde hair and the green eyes (and the memory of Caravaggio ).

But once he got me convinced (that was the third viewing) I just saw it! That death scene is some fine piece of acting, from both actors but especially from Sean Bean. Lol, guess that's a way of celebrating his birthday today too: saying what a great actor he is.

Anyway, the moment that does it for me in his entire performance is when he he says: 'Long has my father the steward of Gondor kept the forces of Mordor at bay. By the blood of our people were your lands kept safe.' He sounds so tired there, so scared and exhausted and pleading - it's perfect.

As for the death scene, I adore that little moment when Aragorn hands him his sword - that's brilliant, and that's so Tolkien even though it's not.
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: August 24, 2004 08:58
First time did I see FotR theater version, without reading the books before, I thought Boromir was a vilian character, and he deserved to die. :rolleyes: Then I read the book and watched EE DVD, I found I was wrong. The weakness of the theater version is that it doesn't portray Boromir's mind thoroughly. We can't realise how much Boromir worried about his endangered country, and how urgent his mission was through the short edition. He's just like we mortal people. In real life, not everyone can be as excellent as the protagonists like Aragron, Legolas... Most of us are often tempted by something, and make mistakes, like Boromir did. Although he's not perfect, I admire him. Furthermore, Aragorn would never figure out his destiny and responsibility without Boromir's death, right?
Figwit
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 11, 2005 03:01
**Moved from another thread that started out being about which of the LotR movies we favored.**


The Fellowship of the Ring get my vote. It's the only one that's deserving of the title 'The Lord of the Rings'. Unfortunately as the trilogy progresses I see Jackson's respect of Tolkien's work get lesser and lesser. To the point where it is treated very carelessly and Jackson starts to rewrite the tale to tell his own story. This is unacceptable to me and I cannot appreiciate it.

Boromir is my favourite character in the films so that's part of the reason it gets my vote. Sean Bean is an absolute genious and deserved a 'best supporting actor' Oscar for his portrayal. Pure class.



Lol, well - Boromir's part was re-written to the point of being nearly a completely different character. Seems like you're contradicting yourself there! [Not that I'm complaing, I love the way they re-worked Boromir to get some of the background of the character to the front.]

I voted for the ROTK EE. FOTR EE is close, because Boromir is my favourite character (too) and I found it was the most mysterious of the three movies and it captured the strange atmosphere of the books best; but I loved ROTK EE because of the Rohirrim - and the Rohirrim are my favorite culture so...

[Edited on 4/11/2005 by Nienna-of-the-Valar]
Kadaveri
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 11, 2005 03:01
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol, well - Boromir's part was re-written to the point of being nearly a completely different character. Seems like you're contradicting yourself there!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really? Boromir's character was changed about a bit but 'to the point of being nearly a completey different character'? I don't think so. Boromir's depiction in the films shares all the basic characteristics of Boromir in the books.

He is a physically strong character, he is very brave, he thinks the Ring can be used against Sauron. He is very proud (perhaps too proud) of his country and has faith in his people. And most of all, he is tempted by the Ring throughout and tries to take it from Frodo in a moment of madness. He afterwards sees the folly in his actions and dies defending Merry and Pippin from the Uruks. He confesses to Aragorn as he dies.

Now am I talking about the Boromir from the film or the book? They changed a few things, most of which were improvements on what Tolkien wrote when used in a film. But nearly a completely different character!?

As well as being the best depicted character (in my opinion) Boromir is also the best acted. Watch Sean Bean's eyes everytime he sees the Ring in the films. He doesn't need to say anything; those eyes tell a thousand words.

[Edited on 10/4/2005 by Kadaveri]
Figwit
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 11, 2005 03:02
Sorry, mods, going a little off-track here... but just a little

He is a physically strong character, he is very brave, he thinks the Ring can be used against Sauron. He is very proud (perhaps too proud) of his country and has faith in his people. And most of all, he is tempted by the Ring throughout and tries to take it from Frodo in a moment of madness. He afterwards sees the folly in his actions and dies defending Merry and Pippin from the Uruks. He confesses to Aragorn as he dies.
Now am I talking about the Boromir from the film or the book?


Aha! Movie Boromir, because book Boromir doesn't go mad .


They changed a few things, most of which were improvements on what Tolkien wrote when used in a film. But nearly a completely different character!?


A few things?
- Boromir is a blonde. Book Boromir is NOT a blonde. He has dark hair, like all the men in Gondor, which shows his descent from Númenor and his kinship with Aragorn. In the book, Boromir and Aragorn are of the same race. In the movie, this isn't at all clear.
- Boromir goes to the council, not because he wants information about a weird dream he and Faramir had; but because his daddy wants to get his hands on the Ring. That changes the entire premises of Boromir's betrayal: he doesn't attack Frodo because he believes the Ring can defend his city, he does it out of love for his father.
- Boromir arrives in Rivendell on his horse. In the book, Boromir looses his horse and has to walk on foot to Rivendell -his journey takes him 111 days. That's also Bilbo's age when he leaves The Shire - 111 is a very special number in Tolkien's work (it's 3 times 1, which is, tarrraaaaa, the Number of the Holy Trinity).
Anyway, this takes away the impression of a hardy man who is also very stubborn.
- Boromir has three private chats with Aragorn in the movie - none in the book. What does this change?
In the first encounter, Boromir sees Narsil and drops it. Brilliant scene, amazing acting by Sean, great idea to interweave the themes and symbolisms of loyalty, lineage and pride. However, not very much like the Boromir of the books, who is a very superstitious man, and who would neverevereverever touch the shards of Narsil, let alone drop them.
The second one is in Lothlórien. Here, we see Boromir's softer side - which, in the books, he only show on Caradhras (his care for the hobbits is touching) and to Frodo. Very important: in the books, he shows weakness to Frodo. Something daddy dearest wouldn't allow him to feel, I'm sure. This adds to the psychological depth of that chapter in the book, and taking it from Frodo and moving it to Aragorn completely alters that relationship. I mean, the guy's crying. Can you, in all honesty, imagine book Boromir crying in Aragorn's company? This scene also contains another hint to Boromir's strange relationship with his failing father.
Third encounter: on the banks of the Anduin Boromir tells Aragorn that he's afraid of his own humanity. Book Aragorn isn't afraid of his humanity; and book Boromir would neverever be this frank to Aragorn.
- At the council, Boromir is not backed up by anyone. In the books, the Dwarves seem to think using the Ring is a good option, too. Boromir knows who Aragorn is - eh? Que? I mean, no way! Boromir immediately knows what the Ring is - again, eh?
- Boromir isn't half as superstitious and thoroughly Gondorian as he is in the book: he doesn't marvel at the hobbits at the council and he's not completely freaked out by the mere thought of entering Moria and Lothlórien. In the books, Boromir seems to have hardly ever left his own realm, and it shows. It doesn't in the movie. Boromir seems at ease amongst the mixed company - in the books, he's not.
- No blowing of horns. In the books, Boromir blows his horn constantly, and preferably at the oddest times. It's at the same time a token of his courage (let them come!), a sign of his position (Captain of the White Tower) and a way to camouflage his fear and his lack of position within the Fellowship itself.
- No throwing rocks into the lake outside Moria. No sulking Boromir who doesn't get his way. To me - major change. Boromir can't handle fear very well when he's not in command. He doesn't like being a subject to authority.
- Laughing Boromir. Ahum. Boromir doesn't laugh in the books. Not ones. Read all you like, you won't find him even grinning. That's not him. Boromir is a soldier, trained not to show any kind of weakness. Movie Boromir is weak - and that's good, because it makes him easier to like. But in essence, book Boromir isn't cuddly, and he is very weak but he doesn't show it. Except to Frodo.
- Boromir gets no gift. Very, very symbolic that, and a lot of non-bookies noticed it too. Why does everyone get something, but Boromir doesn't? Boromir leaves Lothlórien intact. The only thing you can acuse him of is that he probably figured out already that Aragorn will travel with Frodo and not go to Minas Tirith with him. [Which makes his parting words to Aragorn all the more pressing: 'Go to Minas Tirith', he knows Aragorn will not go right away, but he is trying to load the burden of guilt onto him to make him go anyway.]
- The entire 'Boromir-tries-to-kill-Frodo'-thing has been altered: in the book it starts out with a conversation. Boromir comes up with rational arguments, then emotional arguments, then he gets angry and tries to kill Frodo. The idea that Boromir is taken by some kind of madness is typical for the movies: it never even occured to me in the book. Boromir just wants something and can't have it, and it upsets him. It seems typical for him to use strength as a last resort.
- Linked to this: Boromir doesn't return to the camp. He shows up in time to rescue Merry & Pippin, but he doesn't confront his companions. In my opinion, that is the bravest thing he could ever do: go back to the people he betrayed, unaware that no one would ever find out what really happened. Just imagine doing that... it takes so much courage. That's what makes him such a beautiful character, his bravery at that point. However, that crucial moment is not in the movie.
- Death scene: no pledge of allegiance to Aragorn in the book. However beautiful, Boromir wouldn't have pledged allegiance in such an open and official way until the time was there. He wouldn't have opposed Aragorn, I don't believe that, but he wasn't looking forward to the return of the king either. He's his father's son in that way.
Also: no weapons of slayed enemies in his funeral boat, and no lon song by all three remaining members of the Fellowship...
- Faramir is portrayed as adoring his big brother. A strong bond between the brothers is suggested in the Appendixes, and also because of Faramir's vision of his brother's body. However, in Book 4 Faramir talks about his brother with much love but little respect.
- Boromir doesn't reclaim Osgiliath.


As well as being the best depicted character (in my opinion) Boromir is also the best acted. Watch Sean Bean's eyes everytime he sees the Ring in the films. He doesn't need to say anything; those eyes tell a thousand words.


I completely agree with that. Sean Bean really won my heart, and I must say it's his performance and the very positive reaction of audiences (bookies included) to it that made me embrace movie Boromir. But the difference is huge when you look at it in detail. For someone who complains about the changes in ROTK, you certainly seemed to have overlooked the changes in Boromir. Now, you may find them insignificant, but I don't. Just as PJ, Boyens and Walsh may find the changes to ROTK an improvement, and you don't.
shadowofarda
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 17, 2005 03:58
Figwit: For two utterly beautiful posts that said things so eloquently and intelligibly in ways that I could not...

I name thee Sovereign of Gondor.

Behold! Watch me run from Denethor!
Kadaveri
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 18, 2005 07:25
Ok, so after finally discovering where the Boromir thing disappeared to I'll give some comments.

I suppose Boromir was changed about more than I was aware of, most of the changes are rather minor however and don't really change his character much. But since Boromir is your speciality they're not at all minor to you. I still hold to my point that Boromir went mad in both film and book, I know I shouldn't really do this in a movie forum but here's a quote.

He rose and passed his hand over his eyes, dashing away the tears. 'What have I said? ' he cried. `What have I done? Frodo, Frodo! ' he called. 'Come back! A madness took me, but it has passed. Come back!' (LotR, The Breaking of the Fellowship)

Boromir in the films isn't blonde: he has brown hair. The connection between Aragorn and Boromir wasn't that clear in the films but you could tell there was something there.

Aye that's a good point, hadn't noticed that one. It does mess up why Boromir betrayed Frodo a bit.

Boromir arriving at Imladris on his horse instead of on foot doesn't really change anything though. If they had him arrive on foot they wouldn't have had the time to explain about his journey so it wouldn't have made much difference anyway. The movie Boromir still gave me the impression of a hardy, stubborn man. Although since I knew Boromir's character beforehand I was looking for such things so I'm bound to notice them.

Boromir dropping the shards of Narsil I didn't like for those reasons. He would never do that.
I don't recall the 'Boromir crying' scene. If it's in the EEs then that's probably why. Boromir crying sounds rather absurd to me though; very out-of-character.
Yeah another good one point, I haven't seen the films for about a year now so details like this are draining from my mind.

Well the films simplify everything don't they. Having the Dwarves support Boromir is a unimportant part of the Council of Elrond. Moviegoers don't want to see a film where everyone just talks for half an hour, so the Council was cut down significantly. Boromir's supernatural abilities I hadn't noticed but now that I think about it he couldn't possibly have known these things. Let's be fair though, it's probably just a scriptwriter's blooper. Very few people have realised this slip-up so it doesn't effect Boromir's character much.

Boromir's superstitious nature I missed. Although it doesn't show him not wanting to go to these mysterious places there's nothing that directly contradicts that either. Just emptiness. Boromir isn't a key character in the movies remember.

I completely agree with the blowing of the horns issue. What possible trouble would it have been to have Boromir blow his horn upon leaving Rivendel etc etc. Little things like this that could have been so easily done annoy me.

Sulking Boromir would have been nice. But Boromir isn't all smiles either, we don't see much of Boromir at this point. So we don't know what his mood is. The first film revolves around Frodo mainly, Boromir wasn't considered an important character.

I don't actually remember Boromir laughing in the films but that is a major change. Boromir's always so grim. Bad change

Boromir gets no gift. I know I'm sounding very obtuse here but I can't see any difference

I've always thought Boromir did go mad when he couldn't get what he wanted, long before the movies were released. I guess that's just people interpreting the text differently.

Good point with Boromir not returning to the camp. The movie-makers did have time-constricts remember and Boromir isn't the most important character in the films for most people. They can't show everything he does, Boromir in the films always struck me as brave. But again that may be because of my preconceived prejudices as to who Boromir is. (We seem to have reversed roles, I'm defending the movies this time.)

I actually liked the pledge of allegiance in the films. Boromir wasn't exactly looking forward to the return of the King but I think this is made clear in the Council of Elrond when he utters "Gondor has no King, Gondor needs no King." People's characters can change quite a bit when they're on death's door.
Weapons of the slayed enemies is another one of those little things that could so easily have been put in. They couldn't really have had the three hunters singing because it would shatter the feeling of urgency that had been building up the whole time.

Faramir from the films never struck me as being 'adoring' to his brother, he was saddened that his brother had died. Even if they didn't like him most people would feel sadness at their brother's death. Well that's how I see Faramir reaction in the films anyway.

I thought the Boromir reclaiming Osgiliath was a good idea but it wasn't carried out well. Far too much of the story revolved around Osgiliath. Having Boromir reclaim Osgiliath would have worked if they made it clear Sauron made no effort to defend it or something like that. This sort of change doesn't really effect Boromir's character that much.

I can see where you're coming from, and Boromir was more different in the films than I had realised at first. But to someone who isn't particulary interested in Boromir most of the changes seem a bit insignificant. Many of them aren't really changes, just things that aren't shown. Boromir wasn't considered to be an important character, if more time was given to illuminate Boromir's character it would have been detrimental to other things that most consider unimportant.
The basic parts of Boromir's character are there; which is more than what you can say for many other characters in the films.
Book Boromir/Film Boromir. Two nearly completely different characters? I must disagree.

[Edited on 21/5/2005 by Kadaveri]
shadowofarda
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 18, 2005 08:21
Boromir didn't really cry, per se, he just sorta had tears in his eyes, and just sounded really really upset.

But then again, I forgive this because whilst Boromir wouldn't necessarily CRY, he felt distraught because of the possibility that his lovely Minas Tirith would come to ruin. A just reason. Not because his doggie pooped on his bicycle.

I believe Faramir adored his brother either way. I have a brother figure in my life, who is (I will say without hesistation) rather conceited, and thick-headed, and he really does tend to think he's always right..

But i knew him all my life, and he is like my old brother (only by about three years... what's the age difference b/w Faramir and Boromir? Five years?) and I love him dearly.

Faramir is smart enough to realize that Boromir is not the PERFECT being (he's like, over thirty, he's not harboring childish delusions), but the appendix always gave me the impression that they adored one another. It states that BOTH of them believed that no man was like their brother. They clearly adored each other. I got this impression from the books AS WELL AS the films.

...really, I don't think I even have a point to prove. I fluctuate between being perfectly alright with the changes, to being horrified.

[This is product of shadowofarda NOT wanting to take her practice AP US History exam.]
Figwit
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: April 24, 2005 12:17
I can see where you're coming from, and Boromir was more different in the films than I had realised at first. But to someone who isn't particulary interested in Boromir most of the changes seem a bit insignificant. Many of them aren't really changes, just things that aren't shown. Boromir wasn't considered to be an important character, if more time was given to illuminate Boromir's character it would have been detrimental to other things that most consider unimportant.
The basic parts of Boromir's character are there; which is more than what you can say for many other characters in the films.
Book Boromir/Film Boromir. Two nearly completely different characters? I must disagree.


I guess that's what I meant in the other thread: to me, all those changes do make a very different character. Most of the things that I love about Book Boromir are gone.
If we were to do the same thing with Arwen, we might find the opposite thing to happen.

It's all a matter of what you find important and how you interpret something.
Sheledrial
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: June 20, 2006 07:05
I wasn't too fond of Boromir at first. He seemed a little power hungry and proud. Yet i know that was how he was raised and it was expected of him. But i did gain more respect for him at the end of the movie.



Ok, I didn't know where to put this so I apologize if it's in the wrong place!

When I first read the books, I didn't like Boromir all that much. He tried to take the Ring from Frodo and he just made me nervous. Since I saw the film, I have to say that I have changed: I believe. Sean Bean made me believe in Boromir. I find that I've become obsessed with him (and the brothers Mir in general)...

Was this the same for anyone else or am I alone?
Miriel81589
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: July 07, 2006 09:59
I agree with you all! Sean Bean's Boromir took me on the roller coaster: I mistrusted him at first, I was angry at him at Amon Hen, then I forgave him when he redeemed himself and actually cried at his death scene. Bean's Boromir made him real to me, a person with motivations, faults, and underneath it all, a good heart.
heri_sinyë
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: July 26, 2008 08:43
I can't say I've been in the same situation because I actually watched the first movie before reading the books, but I think that Tolkien often describes characters in a very subtle way. You have to dig into the text and deep in between the lines you'll find what Tolkien is really trying to tell you about that character. It might be that if you don't think about it some things just slip by without you noticing them, and that's why the characters seem distant.

Then I must agree that Sean Bean did a great job acting like Boromir, it isn't one of the easiest characters to impersonate, really.
isildurn_tinuviel
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: August 02, 2008 09:17
I began reading the books after the first movie came out. Even then, i didn't entirely understand the story. (Hey, i was 7.) I didn't really know any of the character's names or anything. But, now that i've watched the movies a million times each, and reread select parts of the books, i think i get it. Haha. I agree with those who believe that Tolkien did not go in depth with Boromir's character, so that left an opening for all of us to make inferences. In the movies: At first, i always saw him as the bad guy.:evil: He was always the one who betrayed them. Then, as i got older, i began to understand what was actually going on with him. The stress he was under, the longings to keep Gondor safe, and the evil of the Ring affecting him. Soon, i loved that guy like a brother. He was my favorite Fellowship member. Now, i had a sudden revelation that I liked Sean Bean, so Boromir is my LOTR romantic interest as well!

I think Sean did a very good job at portraying the character as he saw fit (as long as PJ said it was ok). Sean is a great actor and tends to put his heart into it instead of his pocketbook. So, his performance adds to my love of Boromir.

The death scene was very well done and makes me cry every time.:cry: I even have it recorded on my MP3! I'm a nut, aren't I?
MoonLove
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Post RE: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: December 03, 2008 02:15
I felt pretty neutral about Boromir when I read the book for the first time, but during a second time reading through it I started to really like Boromir. To the point of intrigued obsession. And now it's reached levels of fangirl love.

And of course Sean Bean is a wonderful actor and I was happy with his performance of the character. :love: One of the reasons that I bought the extended editions was for the extra Boromir scenes.
Sassyfriend
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Post Re: I believe - a Boromir thread
on: September 20, 2012 08:17
I am a Boromir die hard fan and proud of it! Movie Boromir makes me laugh, gets me a bit angry, makes me scared and makes me wanna weep. He is an awesome friend to the fellowship and helps them countless times.

I love the way he helps train the hobbits to sword fight. Aragorn dosen't even do that Boromir is the only one.

I love the friendship between Aragorn and Boromir. Even though Aragorn and he can get mean at each other sometimes.

I will say more about this later.
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