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Kadaveri
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: May 21, 2005 02:27
I think 'edited' is a misleading term to use when describing the HoME and Unfinished Tales. Tolkien's text is given exactly as he wrote it, Christopher doesn't edit any of it. What he does is give his commentary on the text and sometimes writes short essays them.

The only book that was 'edited' as in what Tolkien wrote was changed is The Silmarillion.

[Edited on 22/5/2005 by Kadaveri]
buubear
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: March 24, 2006 04:14
First I want to say sorry for not being on lately. I have a couple thing to ask. I have just about finished the LoTR's. I still have a few books to acquire. But I have taken over my ex-hasbands books dealing with Tolkien. I have the TRoTS,TToI, and TWoR. I also have the Silmarillion. I want to know should I get the other books first dealing with the history of LoTR before I read the Return of The Shadow. Is there another book I need to read before the Silmarillion. Can I just read them now and just reread then later when I have the money to get the other books.


thanks for any help i get with this.
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: March 24, 2006 08:54
The Return of the Shadow is the first one of the HoME books to deal with the making of the LOTR so, you can well start with that one. But, if you can, also get Sauron Defeated; it deals with the last parts (Book 6) of the LOTR. And, you don't have to read anything else before taking up the Silmarillion; but, after you've read it, try and get hold of Unfinished Tales, there's especially more about the stories of Túrin and Tuor that are told in the Sil.
Aglarnim
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: March 26, 2006 07:40
I'd read the Hobbit first followed by LOTR and then the Silmarillion. The Silmarillian is just sso deep that you need to start easier. But that's just me.
Lomelindi_of_Moonlight
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: March 27, 2006 04:01
I was in the same boat, (and since I'm no real expert lol) but personally, I enjoyed reading the Hobbit and LOTR first and then going back and seeing how it all began. It brought more meaning to the others because you can see the how they fit into the whole picture better.
gamgee_girl92
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 10, 2006 05:11
Yes I definitely think you should read the Silamarillion first....and as everybody has said so much as it is I shall say no more......my work is done.
Nienna1977
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 15, 2006 08:44



My question is (more a cry for help actually) how can I find the other books (in English) at a resonable price? Please, help...



Try Ebay. I found my copy of The Hobbit on Ebay as well as A Tolkien Bestiary. Very cheap. Only danger is, shipping costs can become high due to the weight of the books.

I got The Hobbit for 1 euro for example and the Bestiary was 2 euro I think, I can't remember exactly, anyway, after shipping costs were calculated, I paid around 20-25 euro for each book separate.

Try to find something in your own country, even though that is difficult! Sometimes you have to buy them from another country, but you can always ask the shipping costs first before agreeing to anything.
Nienna1977
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 15, 2006 08:54
I've read the Trilogy in 2003, after discovering the movies. Only this year I read The Hobbit. I was planning to read The Hobbit and Silmarillion for a long time, but this year I finally ordered them, inspired to do it finally due to a reading group.

And I'm so glad I did! Because The Hobbit turned out better than I had imagined, I kinda thought it would be a bit boring for an adult, I read somewhere it would be a small children's book.

I recently had finished reading the Silmarillion. It has become one of my favorites now. I love the stories of the events that took place before Middle Earth. Couldn't PJ make a movie out of those? :love:

What I personally find very handy, is a Tolkien Bestiary. It is so handy when you want to look something up quickly. There are soooo many names and especially when you start reading the Silmarillion, you get mixed up so easily, and in the Bestiary you find many names of creatures and places, etc of Middle Earth. There is a time line in it of ALL events that took place. I often mix up the Elves for example, you have many different kinds and I often look them up again in the Bestiary. It's like some sort of encyclopedia of the world Tolkien created.

I haven't read any of the other books yet. But I'm planning to in the future if my fate allows me too.
buubear
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 24, 2006 05:22
I wanted to say thanks again. I'm still undecided on which to read. I'm sorry to say this but I took a break from the LoTR. I took a chance to read some of the star wars books. My oldest daughter is into them so I wanted to see what she read. I would rather stay with my LoTR. Don't get me wrong she is reading a good series it is just not my taste for reading. So I will just pick a book and start reading. Though I did start the Sil it just did not catch my interest at the time.
gondolinian
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: August 06, 2006 07:26
Hy

I checked the forum here, I'm about to buy the English version of LOTR, and I just wanted to summarise the list of books available (books by JRR or Christopher Tolkien):

The original story:

- The Silmarillion
- The Hobbit
- FOTR
- TTT
- ROTK
- Unfinished tales

=> So these all contain the "true" strory and some further details...?

Then:

- "The Letters of JRR Tolkien" ed. Humphrey Carpenter (with the assistance of Christopher Tolkien)
- HoME:
1) Book of Lost Tales 1
2) Book of Lost Tales 2
3) Lays of Beleriand
4) The Shaping of Middle-earth
5) The Lost Road and Other Writings
6) The Return of the Shadow
7) The Treason of Isengard
The War of the Ring
9) Sauron Defeated
10) Morgoth's Ring
11) The War of the Jewels
12) The People of Middle-earth
13) The History of Middle-earth Index

=> these all contain "other", earlier versions of tolkien's stories, and also provide an insight in his thinking and in the way the stories evolved into the "true" stories?

And than finally the stories of Tom Bombadill and the other fairy tales of JRR?

In my language I couldn't find the HoME, so that's what confused me alot (I thought it was just the unfinished tales)

So if anyone could confirm the list, then I can start saving to buy them all

thanks a lot!

Errandir


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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: August 07, 2006 02:56
There are other Tolkien authored books out there, but none are Middle-earth related, so the list youhave is pretty much complete.
The other books in myown collection include such gems asMr Bliss, Roverandum, Tales From The Perilous Realm ( which includes 'Farmer Giles of Ham', 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil', 'Leaf by Niggle', and 'Smith of Wootton Manor') Tree and Leaf (which originally -in 1964 -included only 'On Fairy Stories', and' Leaf by Niggle', but since 1988 includes 'Mythopeia' and 'The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth Beorhthelm's Son' and lastly, Tolkiens translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
Other helpful books include two atlases; "The Atlas of Middle-earth' by Karen Wynn Fonstad and 'The Journeys of Frodo' by Barbara Strachy
Melianmaia
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: August 09, 2006 04:57
Roverandom is delightful! We have a small white dog whom I saw as Rover whilst I was reading it.
Marille
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: August 15, 2006 05:09
If I may provide a hint for those reading the Silmarillion. I've just finished my second trip through. I took the time to jot down notes as I went. Which Valar was which, who did what when - that kind of thing. I also photocopied the map and the geneology and referred to them constantly. It made a huge difference. I found the stories so much more meaningful. It is written as an adult book, really. Definitely not written down to the lowest common demoninator, thus it requires more effort from the reader.
Melianmaia
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: August 16, 2006 03:05
I kept a bookmark in the geanology page to refer as to who was related to whom.
Suiauthon
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 10, 2006 11:53
Do all of the books have commentaries? because i dislike them since they are boring. i want to learn alot more about tolkiens world through stories not boring commentaries
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 11, 2006 03:10
As far as I know, the only books that have commentaries are the History of Middle-earth books, which are sort of "making of" documents of the Silmarillion and the LOTR; Unfinished Tales to some extent; and the annotated version of The Hobbit, in which the story doesn't get interrupted by the annotations though.
Suiauthon
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 11, 2006 10:14
thanks, im new to all the other books other than Simillarion, hoobit, felowship, two towers, return of the king, book of lost tales 1 +2. so would the stories of tom bombadil have any commentary?
atalante_star
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 17, 2006 06:22
thanks, im new to all the other books other than Simillarion, hoobit, felowship, two towers, return of the king, book of lost tales 1 +2. so would the stories of tom bombadil have any commentary?

Nope, I'm afraid they don't. Its a lovely little book though!
Qa
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 18, 2006 08:24
Okay, I'm totally confused.
What are the names of all the books?
And please do not use abbreviations to tell me.
And then, is Unfinished Tales a imaginative literature, or is it just facs about Tolkiens world?

And then again, what is the best order to read the books in?
All the books in Middle-earth world.

LOTRluver43235
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 18, 2006 05:43
ok, read The Hobbit first. Then The Lord of the Rings (Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, then Return of the King ). The Silmarillion comes first on the timeline, but I really think you should read the others first just because it's such a complicated book. I've never read Unfinished Tales or the History of Middle Earth , but I'm sure you would read those next. Hope that helps!
Mullog
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 19, 2006 02:02
I agree with LOTRluver43235. But if you think the Silmarillion heavy enough I would suggest reading some of Tolkien's other books, rather than Unfinished Tales and History of Middle-earth. They are not set in Middle-earth though:

Smith of Wooton Major
Leaf by Niggle
Farmer Giles of Ham
Mr. Bliss
Roverandom

There is also the poem-collection "The Adventures of Tom Bpmbadil" which is from Middle-earth.
Dolwen
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 19, 2006 05:23
Yes, I also agree. The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion are the most important. If you want to know everything there is to know about Middle-Earth and get deeper into the history not only of Middle-Earth but how it came about then you might want to also read Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle-Earth series.

Unfinished Tales is more detail about Middle-Earth stories from the 1st age through the War of the Ring. Such as why Gandalf sent the dwarves to Bilbo and the history of Galadriel and Celeborn.

If you decide to read the History of Middle Earth series also here are the volumes and the order of them.
Vol. 1-The Book of Lost Tales pt.1(Early Silmarillion writings)
Vol. 2- The Book of Lost Tales pt.2(Early Sil, Tale of Tinuviel, Fall of Gondolin etc)
Vol. 3- The Lays of Beleriand ( full poem versions of The Lay of Leithian-(Beren and Luthien) and The Lays of the Children of Hurin)
Vol. 4- The Shaping of Middle-earth( lots of maps, early Sil, Quenta, early annals) this one is a little difficult to get into.
Vol. 5- The Lost Road and other writings( Unfinished story about time travel, early Sil and etymologies)
Vol. 6- The Return of the Shadow(early versions of Fellowship of the Ring
Vol. 7- The Treason of Isengard( early versions of Fellowship and Two Towers)
Vol. 8- The War of the Ring( early versions of Return of the King)
Vol. 9- Sauron Defeated ( early versions of the end of RotK, The Notion Club Papers, Drowning of Anadûnê)
Vol. 10- Morgoth's Ring (Annuals of Aman, Later Silmarillion, nature of the elves and rebirth, fall of man etc)
Vol. 11- War of the Jewel ( The Grey Annual, more of Later Sil, The Wanderings of Hurin etc)
Vol. 12- The Peoples of Middle-earth (details of the races of Middle-Earth, languages, etc)
Vol. 13- Index to the HoMe series

Hope this helps
Qa
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: December 19, 2006 07:41
THANKS
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 08, 2007 07:36
Sorry PB! I must be blind. Anyway I'm moving my post here from the closed thread and hopefully it will be of use. Here goes again:

Tolkien worked on his "personal" mythology most of his life. His working title for the whole corpus was "The Silmarillion". From 1916 onwards it became very elaborate, but was in a constant state of flux. The Hobbit and LotR incorporated references and characters from the "work in progress" which in turn required revision of that work. (Confused? so was Tolkien). My advice would be as follows:

The Hobbit ... which Tolkien wrote for his children in the 1930s. Characters within The Hobbit (including the author!) make reference to "historical matters" from the greater mythology. Don't worry about it? Just enjoy.

The Lord of the Rings ... Asked for a sequel to The Hobbit Tolkien struggled for 14 years, including the whole of WW2 inventing as he went, to write this epic tale. Much more of the mythology appears here. References to the "great tales" and the "elder days", much of which is explained in the Appendices, and should whet your appetite for The Silmarillion.

After the completion of LotR Tolkien returned to the Silmarillion, constantly revising and rewriting the old material not only to fit the Hobbit and LotR, but his own changing philosophy and mood. He changed names, places and events, sometimes wrote several versions of a story in parallel (!!) and died while considering a radical restructure of the whole mythology.

The Silmarillion ... A few years after Tolkien's death, his son Christopher published a Silmarillion manfully put together from his father's notes and manuscripts. It was the best he could do at the time and includes the earliest published versions of the "great tales" ... The Children of Hurin, The Fall of Gondolin, The Voyage of Earendel, and the Drowning of Numenor, along with the his creation myth and some extra information about Wizards and Rings.

Unfinished Tales ... I should read this fascinating collection next. It expands on all the stuff in the Appendices of LotR, Galadriel and Celeborn, Battles of the Fords of Isen, Eorl and the Rohirrim, the Disaster of the Gladden Fields plus Gandalf's explanation of The Hobbit and information about Palantiri and the Ellessar.

Only when you've read those should you venture into HoME.

The History of Middle Earth ... is in twelve volumes and includes every scrap of manuscript that Christopher Tolkien could unearth, organised as chronologically as possible with cross-references, notes and full index. Many of the manuscripts are incomplete but add detail to the great tales, in particular The Children of Hurin which Christopher has now reworked and is to be published as a stand-alone later this month. It is possibly the greatest heroic tragedy ever written.

Hope this helps and as I said before ... Enjoy




[Edited on 8/4/2007 by cirdaneth]
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 10, 2007 12:51
A complete list of everthing published with Tolkien's name can be found at A Chronological Bibliography of the Writings of J.R.R. Tolkien , compiled by Åke Bertenstam for Forodrim.org ( Click the underlined words to follow the link.
o8strider8o
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 26, 2007 01:56
I've read the hobbit and lord of the rings and the children of hurin. What would be the book to read next by tolkien? Silmarilion?
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: April 26, 2007 05:39
Yes, Strider, that would be my suggestion, followed by Unfinished tales. See my posting earlier on this page. The Sil contains the originally published pared down version of CoH and UT has a lot of additional stuff on the Narn with Christopher Tolkien's notes thereon.
undeniiable
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 03, 2007 09:11
I'm planning on buying most of the set in the Tolkien 'series'. I've been wondering; Should I buy the Tolkien Reader too, or is it not really in the useful? Thanks.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 04, 2007 03:12
That's actually a complicated question. The 'Tolkien Reader' is actually a compilation containing Farmer Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and the essay, On Fairy Stories. If you've already purchased 'Tales from the Perilous Realm' or are considering it, you already have everything but [/b] On Fairy Stories[/b] and you would also have ' Leaf by Niggle , and Smith of Wooton Manor. It seems that the only way to possess all of the above mentioned stories is to purchase both books and end up with some duplication. I should also add that some other compilations are available with different sets of stories in them, but I can't see a way to possess all Tolkien's stories and essays without some duplication.
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 04, 2007 04:43
I found I wouldn’t need the Tolkien Reader if I bought Tales from the Perilous Realm, and The Monsters and the Critics, … which between them include stuff which isn’t in the Reader.

TftPR has
Farmer Giles of Ham
The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
Leaf by Niggle
Smith of Wootton Major

TMatC is a collection of essays
Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics
On Translating Beowulf
On Fairy Stories
English and Welsh
A Secret Vice
Valedictory Address.

You won’t need Tree and Leaf unless you especially want the poem Mythpoeia and the Homecoming of Beorthnoth. Leaf by Niggle and On Fairy Stories are in the first two books.

If you get hooked on Beowulf or Gawain, I can recommend Sheamus Heany’s translation in the bi-lingual version, OE on the left hand page, and the Max Notes on Sir Gawain which give a good appreciation and explanation of symbolism and customs.

Hope this helps.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 06, 2007 09:33
I stand corrected; I've never noticed The Monsters and the Critics
Ilandir
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 12, 2007 09:09
Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to ask a question. I'm an Anglo-Saxon era fan (including poems, stories and battles). Would you recomend 'Finn and Hengest' and 'Tree and Leaf'? I've already got 'The Monsters and the Critics...'. Also, are there any other books that relate to discussions Tolkien made about this period in history?

Thanks,
Ilandir

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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 13, 2007 06:49
From what I know of you, Ilandir, I think you would find Finn and Hengest really gripping. I have it, but have been too short of time to get into it. I took it up just now to see if it would suit you, and I've had to tear myself away. (and that was just the editor's preface!) It is a brilliant piece of detective work on an exciting tale, which reveals new insights into history, culture and language. Wish I had more than 24 hours ina day.

If you have Monsters and Critics, you will only double up on 'On Fairy Stories' if you get Tree and Leaf. The final item in the books is 'The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth' a poem written by Tolkien which continues on from the 10thC fragmentary poem of The Battle of Maldon. It features two men sent to recover Beorthnoth's body from the battlefield. Tolkien wrote it in English for two voices and chanting monks. I'd say it is fully performable with the aid of a spotlight, a wooden trolly and some dry ice.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 13, 2007 08:26
From what I know of you, Ilandir, I think you would find Finn and Hengest really gripping. I have it, but have been too short of time to get into it. I took it up just now to see if it would suit you, and I've had to tear myself away. (and that was just the editor's preface!) It is a brilliant piece of detective work on an exciting tale, which reveals new insights into history, culture and language. Wish I had more than 24 hours ina day.
Hey cirdaneth thanks alot for your help. It looks amazing the way you describe it heh! Then I'll certainly buy it and add it to my collection.

If you have Monsters and Critics, you will only double up on 'On Fairy Stories' if you get Tree and Leaf. The final item in the books is 'The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth' a poem written by Tolkien which continues on from the 10thC fragmentary poem of The Battle of Maldon. It features two men sent to recover Beorthnoth's body from the battlefield.

Oh yes that would be very interesting. I've read the whole Battle of Maldon poem and it's very good. I guess this will be on my buy-list aswell ...
Oh and, regards 'Mythopoeia', which is included in 'Tree and Leaf' is it worth reading?

Tolkien wrote it in English for two voices and chanting monks. I'd say it is fully performable with the aid of a spotlight, a wooden trolly and some dry ice.
Hmm that sounds really interesting ... heh!

Thanks alot once again.


[Edited on 13/6/2007 by Ilandir]
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Order to read books in?
on: June 17, 2007 10:24
Sorry to be so long replying. It's been a hectic week.

Mythopoeia is a poem in which Philomythus (myth-lover) addresses Misomythus (myth-hater). Some parts of it get quoted at times, such as ...

The heart of man is not compound of lies,
but draws some wisdom from the only Wise.

and

I bow not yet before the iron crown'
Nor cast my own small golden sceptre down.

I like it.
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