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Figwit
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Post ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: February 29, 2004 01:13
YEAY!!! Thanks to the excellent Screencap Team here at CoE, we actually have caps from the movie now - so here's the thrid and (almost) final part of our SbS series!

We'll start with the Prologue (about Gollum and with the Hobbits and the lembas) and Ithilien where Sam catches Gollum at talking to himself.

Okay: did you like the Prologue? What would you have done?
Do you like the dynamics between Frodo and Sam? And what about Sméagol - still sympathetic towards him or not?

And, as ever, which part do you prefer?

[Edited on 29/2/2004 by Figwit]
ladylirenel
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: February 29, 2004 08:05
I liked Gollum's schizo scene the best, it gave more information while still being entertaining. I did not like the Prologue(sp?) with Gollum/Smeagol. Well, I liked it, but it really freaked me out when the movie started with a worm. I thought I was in the wrong movie for a moment. I probably would have preferred it if the camera had zoomed in from the trees or something to see the hobbits fishing. And I really really could have done without Gollum eating the fish like that.
Niennafefalas
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: February 29, 2004 08:26
i voted for gollums schizo scene, the prologue and gollum changing was scary, and the fish was horribl. eeeeeew.
snowystingray
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: February 29, 2004 02:07
I voted for the lembas scene, although I think all of them were very well done. I just like this scene in particular because it continues the nice Sam/Frodo vibes from the end of TTT and shows that at this point in time they do have a sort of renewed sense of hope in their mission. The way Frodo says "Sam..." as Sam tries to get him to eat is the absolute sweetest and goes straight to my heart.
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: February 29, 2004 02:50
I voted for the Smeagol/Deagol scene. I liked the way they went back and explained Gollum's past history. I would have picked Gollums transformation but that fish! *shudders* I would have left THAT part out!

Smeagol definitly has my sympathy. He didn't really know what he was getting himself into after all. (Of course, I always stick up for most of the "baddies" so..)

The Frodo/Sam scene was sweet. It is so touching to see Sam's devotion to Frodo.
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 01, 2004 06:08
I voted for the scene that Smeagol turned into Gollum. I think it is some sort of vision how Frodo could become when he had actually kept the Ring without the fight with Gollum at the end. And I think it is a sad story in a nutshell:cry:.
Legolas{Greenleaf}
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 01, 2004 03:52
I voted for the fight between Sméagol & Déagol mainly because seeing the murder Sméagol commits really sent chills down my spine. I didn't care much for the second schizo scene or his transformation scene. The lembas moment between Frodo and Sam was one of the many bittersweet moments in this film that really sends the message to the audience about their friendship.

Peace~
Figwit
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 02, 2004 01:00
Overall, I must say that I liked the Prologue. It was an opening that had to grow on you, it wasn't like FOTR where the Prologue was nothing short of overwhelming, or TTT where it sucked you back into the story.
But since I'm such a Gollum-freak, I loved having this bit of information - so relevant to understand his character - stuffed somewhere in the movie. And why not open with Gollum - he's the one who ends it, isn't he?

The fight was visually breathtaking. The colour scheme was amazingly beautiful: bright greens covered in honey-like sunlight, creating a false atmosphere of calm pleasure. All throughout the scene this colour scheme was mantained, so the horror of it all was either camouflaged a little (which I think was good for the children, because watching someone being strangled to death isn't exactly what I'd call a nice family outing) or accentuated, for those who were able to convey the meaning of that scene.

I think I ended up voting for the transformation scene, because it was so completely revolting. Imagine how you'd feel if you would change from a pretty normal Hobbit to a creature unable to breath properly, constantly making horrid sounds (and by the look of it he's in pain too), an outcast and a murderer, consumed by guilt, anger and a growing desire for the Ring.

What I liked about it especially was what Gollum says here: 'And we forgot the taste of bread, the sound of trees, the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.'
This is a sort of prefiguration of what Frodo will say on Mount Doom when he's starting to loose the battle: 'No, Sam, I can't recall the taste of food. Nor the sound of water. Or the touch of grass. I'm naked in the dark.'
The filmmakers really put a lot of effort in making the similarities between Frodo and Gollum/Sméagol clear, but this always brings tears to my eyes, because it shows so much of the actual suffering and it enables the audience to relate to both Frodo (even when he fails) ánd Gollum.

The scene with the lembas isn't my favorite, though I do adore Sam's: 'The journey home.' and Frodo's obvious surpirse at his servant's hope / optimism / naivity.

As for the second shizo scene, I like it better than the first one: it's more to the point, and closer to the book. The childish side of Gollum also shows, like he's taking it as a game. I read somewhere that Fran Walsh took her children as an example for how Sméagol's mind works, and I think she made a very good decision there - though it's not like Tolkien wrote it (or would have wanted it, I can imagine), it still works very well to show the way Gollum lures Sméagol into doing evil.

Note here that it's Sméagol who'll have to kill, not Gollum:

Sméagol: But they knows. They knows. They suspects us!
Gollum: What's it saying, my precious, my love? Sméagol losing his nerve?
Sméagol: No. Not. Never. Sméagol hates nasty Hobbitses. Sméagol wants to see them...dead.
Gollum: And we will. Sméagol did it once, he can do it again.
Casterino
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 02, 2004 03:17
To quote Figwit
I think I ended up voting for the transformation scene, because it was so completely revolting. Imagine how you'd feel if you would change from a pretty normal Hobbit to a creature unable to breath properly, constantly making horrid sounds (and by the look of it he's in pain too), an outcast and a murderer, consumed by guilt, anger and a growing desire for the Ring.

Now I understand that a lot of people didn't like the fish eating scene...it is horryfying to watch...but you have to remember that horror is one of the underlying key elements of Lord Of The Rings, especially when associated with the ring. It's shocking but at the same time a horryfying reality for what Frodo could become (and almost does). Smeagol's transformation is nasty, revloting and ultimately tragic...it's almost as if he has no will as soon as he sets his sight on the ring...and some could argue that he never had any will to resist when it comes to that power. Everyone loves the psychological side to Gollum/Smeagol...it's a fabulous, gripping storyline in The Two Towers that plays well through ROTK. But you have to remember that it's not just the mind that's corrupted by the ring, the body, ultimately through resisting death by old age, that is corrupted too. Think of how drmatic Bilbo's scene was when he tries to grab the ring from Frodo in Rivendell. It's frightening...and a frightening relaity for Frodo and everyone else if the ring survives.
Plus it's a wonderfully dark way to draw us back into the fate of Middle Earth after a pleasent, sunny opening on the river.
With regards to the first scene the schizo bit between Gollum and Smeagol was great...but doesn't seem to stick in my mind as much as the schizo scene in TTT. Maybe it's just because I've seen TTT a lot more then ROTK.
The Lembas bit is a nice touch...as snowystingray said, it's a nice continuation of Sam and Frodo's renewed faith in one another from the end of TTT. It reminds me also of the roast chicken bit in TTTEE, a lovely touch of character humour before we dealve into the despair of their journey into Mordor.
In all, the prologue and first scene are pehaps not as striking as FOTR (my jaw was hanging open the first time I saw it) or TTT. But I think it's a scene that will grow on people as timke goes on and probably the best moment to show Smeagol's murder of Deagol. I don't think there would have been a better point to show it in the trilogy...unless perhaps very early on in TTT where they are crossing the Dead Marshes and Frodo mentions Smeagol's will name for the first time.

P.s. Sorry it's long. I used to be a film student...I could go into the cinematography...I'm rambling again...stop!

Figwit
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 02, 2004 04:04
But I think it's a scene that will grow on people as timke goes on and probably the best moment to show Smeagol's murder of Deagol. I don't think there would have been a better point to show it in the trilogy...unless perhaps very early on in TTT where they are crossing the Dead Marshes and Frodo mentions Smeagol's will name for the first time.


I agree on both points - I think it'll grow as people will watch it on video or DVD, and the emphasis will come on the psychological depth of the story rather than the action.

I had expected it in the Dead Marshes, really.
Halathuriel
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 03, 2004 07:56
I voted for the fight between Smeagol and Deagol. I thought that was an intense moment, that really showed what ring is capable of...and what it did to Gollum. The sound of the ring on the background only added to that effect.
A nice scene aswell to tell the audience a bit more about Gollum, because for people who haven't read the books, it makes the whole character of Gollum a lot more comprehensive.
I really liked that as an opening sequence, it was a strong beginning and it pulls you right in.
Did you know that Fran Walsh shot that part, because it started off as a minor scene for TTT EE ? But Peter was stunned by the result, and put it in Rotk.


Navalina
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 03, 2004 08:36
I like all of the scenes, but I chose the lembas one. It just really moved me, it was incredibly touching to me.
I don't like the beginning that much, the struggle between Sméagol and Déagol I mean. I don't think it was very necessary. It wasn't really bad, but it could've been left out in my opinion and replaced by a different scene.
~Estel~
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: March 03, 2004 12:38
I liked the struggle between Smeagol and Deagol. I really does show the power of the ring...for a second I was like "hey...wait a minute...does Smeagol know what that is? Is that why he wants it so bad? And why won't Deagol give it up or let him see it?"

It also shows the power of Frodo, because no one else could touch it. Boromir was tempted by it although Aragorn did resist, Gandalf wouldn't pick it up for fear of what he'd do, Galadriel barely escaped, it consumed both Deagol and Smeagol, and Frodo carries it around and even puts it on.
fbc
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Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #1: Prologue + Ithilien
on: July 01, 2005 07:24
I really didn't like this part. Too gory for me.
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