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Cillendor
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 02, 2013 05:36
Rodwen, I just wanted to give you props for your post back on March 29. I just read it, and it is absolutely right. [Edit May 21, 2013: How the heck did I write "write" instead of "right" there and not catch it until now?]

Lastiel, I couldn't help but get the impression that you are more turned off by Christians than you are Christianity. Sadly, Christians are called to live lives emulating the life of Jesus, but we often tend to become legalistic and think that our status somehow makes us better than everyone else. The Church on a broad scale does a horrible job of sharing the gospel. Heck, the Apostle Paul even wrote in one of his letters that the Church will fail at her role (2 Thes. 2:6-*.

But Christianity is not about following rules or abiding by a rigid moral code. You've probably heard, "It's not a religion, it's a relationship." That's a kind of simplistic, inaccurate way to put it, but there is truth to that as well. The Christian faith is about coming to terms with the God of Creation and owning up for your rebellion against Him. Whether consciously or not, all people have sinned against God because anything short of perfection is sin. And even people who have never heard of God before have their consciences to bear witness against them because He has put His law into all men's hearts.

Not only is it confession, though, but it is also faith. King David of Israel wrote a beautiful song of confession after his adultery and murder. Psalm 51 expresses both his remorse for sin and his desire for forgiveness. God is a compassionate God who is slow to anger and abounding in love. But He will judge sin and punish those who die in their sin if they have not repented and sought His grace.

He offers forgiveness through Jesus, who being God, willingly left the glory of heaven to be born as a man (and likely a very poor man at that). Once an adult, He began traveling around and correcting the many false, legalistic teachings of the Jews at that time. Ultimately, He was pointing to Himself to fulfill the Law of God and become a just payment. Because He was God, He was capable of fulfilling the Law to the utmost. But because He was man, He was able to receive the punishment for sin. God chose to punish Him on behalf of anyone who seeks forgiveness through Him. After being brutally tortured, nailed to a cross, and dying, He rose to life again after three days as a sign of fulfilling the obligations of the Law and a promise that anyone who puts their faith in Him will also be physically resurrected into a new, perfect existence.

I hope you don't see this as shoving religion down your throat, but I say all of this because no one is 100% moral all the time, even if they follow their own moral code and not God's. Morality cannot save anyone, and God is a just God who must punish sin—either by punishing the sinner or by crucifying Christ.

*Because there are many antichrists, but The Antichrist won't be revealed until "he who now restrains… is taken out of the way." The "he" is most likely the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit abides within the Church. So someday, the Church will be taken away so that the "man of lawlessness" (Antichrist) can be revealed.

[Edited on 05/21/2013 by Cillendor]
Legolas23
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 07, 2013 06:50
So, i was wondering what appeals to you all about your religion.
lotrelessar94
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 09, 2013 12:26
Cillendor, that explanation was very well-written! I have heard a lot of those things said before, but putting it that way made it very easy to understand And btw that is so true (and sad) about our job spreading the Gospel as a church. Ghandi even said "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians." Ouch.
And Legolas23, that is a very good question. I find it funny that you would ask that because I think a lot of my friends who are Catholic would say that there is nothing that appeals to them about their religion. That's because either they're dragged there by their parents, or they go to feel better about themselves and check "religion" off of their to-do list for the week, hoping that God will just be forced to let them into Heaven because they went to church on Sunday. When that's not how it works.
Anyways, I think Christianity has so many reasons why it is appealing to me. Almost too many to list. I think one of the big ones is that I don't get to Heaven through good works. "It is by grace that we have been saved, not through deeds, so that no one can boast." That way, I never have to worry if my good outweighs my bad. (Yet, if that were the case, the bad would outweigh the good every single time.) We can never meet God's standards through works alone. His standard is perfection. Therefore, we can only be seen as spotless to Him through the death of His son.
I think another thing that I love about Christianity is that your life has a purpose. Some people are content to think that we are on this earth by accident, that we are only a bunch of random molecules stuck together by evolutionary coincidences here to annoy each other, love some people, and reproduce, till we grow old and die, and that's the end of it. Whoever dies with the most toys wins. Hurray. Sounds like a great plan.
I am so glad that I now know that my life isn't random. It's meaningful. It has a purpose. I know that I am here to change lives. Most times, it will be for the better. I will also mess up. That's guaranteed. I'm human. But that's the beauty of it all.We have the chance to impact lives, to inspire, to trust, to be forgiven, but also to do wrong and feel pain. Knowing that it all has meaning in the end, and that life is not an accident is what makes it worth it all
"Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!"
Legolas23
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 09, 2013 12:36
thanks! that is so true!
jakalova
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 09, 2013 12:58
Proud Heathen, from Midgaard to Asgaard and down to Helheim if needs be. After years of being lost in the fog of organized religions and less organized pseudo-religions I found one that works for me. It's made me strive to be a better person.
findemaxam48
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 09, 2013 02:37
I think religion not only gives you a sense of self, it brings you closer to others and the God who created and loves you
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
lotrelessar94
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 10, 2013 05:37
Jakalova, your idea sounds interesting, would you care to expand on what you mean?
"Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!"
BelleBayard
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 10, 2013 10:28
Are you Asatru, jakolava? Very interesting spiritual path. I chose Druidry because of my Celtic roots (and so did my hubby for the same reason).
Lindarielwen
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 10, 2013 08:15
Could someone please explain the difference between Heathen, Druid, and Wiccan?
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lotrelessar94
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 10, 2013 10:46
Yes, I second that, Lindarielwen. These are all things I haven't heard much of before and would like to know more about them
"Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!"
Legolas23
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 11, 2013 03:16
i third that!
jakalova
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 11, 2013 04:19
Heathen typically refers to Asatru, the Viking Faith. There is a deep spiritual connection to nature and a good ethical code as well as wise sayings from the Havamal.

Druidism is something I haven't had much connection with so I'll leave that to Belle.

Wicca was created in the 60's by a hippie that wanted to modernize a pseudo-Celtic faith. It borrows from many different sources with no deities to speak of. Many wiccans find a pantheon of gods that they can connect with. One of my exgfs was a wiccan that followed the Olympic Pantheon.

Hope that these answer your questions. If you want more let me know.
tarcolan
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 11, 2013 05:21
Heathen is a blanket term for anyone who is not of the monotheistic (Abrahamic) faiths. As jakalova says it is mostly used of pagans.
Wicca and Druidism are modern beliefs. Wicca was actually developed in the 1930s and brought together elements of folklore, paganism and eastern mysticism. Druidism was formalised in the late 19th century and inevitably shares much with Wicca. The oak and misteltoe are important in both for example.

There's an old Wicca thread here.
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BelleBayard
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 11, 2013 10:21
Actually, Druids were the justicars of ancient Celtic royalty. They stood beside the "kings and queens" of the tribes as advisers, seers, healers, and dealers of justice. Unfortunately, most of what we know of them stems from the Roman writings as with many ancient civilizations and beliefs, little was written, mostly oral tradition. Tarcolan is correct in saying it is modern because an interest in Druidry sprang to life in the 1800's with some pretty bizarre stuff (e.g "The H*llfire Club, which in reality was bored young noblemen with some very twisted lifestyles in private they liked to put an spin on as being pagan). Some folks believe that Druids practiced human sacrifice through fire (i.e. in "Wickerman" where the protagonist ends up being burned in the huge wicker figure), but it hard to truly know if this was true or just the Roman spin on things. Today, Druids, like Asatru, believe that we cannot divorce ourselves from the world around us, the plants, the trees, the water, the earth and that all things are connected. Phillip Carr-Gomm is the current head of the Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids (different ranks within the organization, but totally modern) in Great Britain, but there are those of us who follow this path sprinkled through out the world. I have a feeling, personally, that we are those who seek our roots through this - my family, on both sides have strong ties to Scotland, Wales, and my husband has ancestors that came from Ireland during the potato famines. Hope that helps some.
tarcolan
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 12, 2013 02:22
Yes Belle, it's a pity that they didn't write anything down, if only to set the record straight. Early Greek writings trace the beginnings of philosophy to the Celts among others. Much of the early reports were, as you say, laced with propaganda. Nothing new under the sun. As Belle says there was a lot of nonsense written in the 19th century which can be safely ignored, There are, for example, two Druids Altars within spitting distance of here. Romantic fiction. One thing is certain though, they believed in the immortal soul and in reincarnation. "I have been a blue salmon..." Taliesin recounts former lives he remembers.

The connectedness of all things is illustrated by a poem which begins "I am the sound of the sea", and it's interesting that this was taken up by the early Christian monks in Britain and Ireland as a part of their contemplation. Try it next time you're at the seaside. Most refreshing. It's also interesting to note that the Pauli exclusion principle in quantum mechanics requires that every particle in the universe is connected to every other. Physics playing catch-up there.

There are still many instances of the old ways practiced in Britain. One such is the annual blessing of the apple orchards down in the West Country, usually done in winter. Lots of banging on pots and pans to drive away evil spirits, a piece of cake in the branches, cider around the roots to give thanks to the tree spirits. Even the local vicar might join in. Apart from anything else these sorts of ritual would reinforce the importance of those things to the community. Well-dressing is another example. Much that once was is lost, but not all of it. You just have to keep an open mind.

My favourite saint is St Francis of course.
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BelleBayard
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 12, 2013 08:49
Interesting as well is Saint Brighid, who was actually the Celtic goddess Brighid patron of women in childbirth, Bards, and crafting. Romans were famous for taking ideas from those they "conquered" and incorporating them into their own culture and pantheon. Seems the Roman Catholic church did some of that as well, adjusting various holidays to coincide with what the pagans celebrated.
tarcolan
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 13, 2013 02:12
Oh yes, St Brighid, my other favourite. As to Christian and pagan festivals falling on the same day, surely just a coincidence. At least there's still May Day, not long now. The problem these days is that incomers have driven out the locals from so many villages, pushing up house prices and commuting to the cities or getting holiday homes. The continuity has been lost and the old traditions and customs lose their meaning, becoming just another trivial aspect of the country lifestyle choice. Some people are gamely trying to bring back the old festivals though. Marsden has had an Imbolc fire festival for the last 20 years but sadly it was cancelled this year. Insurance requirements or something. Ah isn't the modern world great, spoiling all the fun.

A nice song, from Chris Wood's 'Walk This World'

A perfect day, a perfect day
The last of April, the first of May
And as we dance and as we play
The sun comes up to cheer us

This will go on though dynasties pass
To mark and circumscribe our listless lives
The staff of life in crumbs will fall
But we will walk this world with music
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lotrelessar94
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 15, 2013 11:17
I think I lost track a bit throughout those last couple of posts, but that's very interesting, everyone! Thanks for the explanations
"Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!"
findemaxam48
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Post Re: Religions
on: April 16, 2013 03:05
Thats is really interesting! I have to do a religions project and I just might use that! Thanks for your insights!
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Legolas23
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on: May 14, 2013 07:01
so what would u change (you as in everyone, not just one person! lol) if you could, about your religion?
LegolasXXXXX
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on: May 17, 2013 07:09
Well, I don't agree with the UPC's stand on the military. (UPC- United Pentecostal Church, which is the organization I belong to) The UPC says that it is up to oneself as to decide whether or not joining the military is right, as one could potentially have to kill another person in a war. I believe that is a really pathetic way of making a standard. I'd rather they took a stand against it, like they used to, than this wishy washy excuse for a standard. However, with that being said, I am very patriotic. When it comes to issues such as this, so if we in the USA were ever at war, and could possibly be invaded, I would enlist, even if that meant I may have to kill someone in the future. Protecting my country, my family, and my friends comes first before issues such as whether it is right to kill someone. However, I still wish the UPC would take a stronger stand at least.
Lindarielwen, I hope that wherever you are it is incredible and filled with all the things that you love. Looking forward to our next meeting.
Legolas23
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on: May 23, 2013 12:53
I like in our denomination we help in disaster recovering teams quite frequently. But i think that the Baptists need to lets say bring up modesty more because it matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lord_Sauron
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on: May 29, 2013 01:44
There are a lot of religions in the world and I have respect for them all even though I don't know much about them. I also treat each building or place that is used for worship with respect.
I don't like how people can judge a religion without actually knowing anything about it and saying that theirs is better.
lotrelessar94
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on: May 30, 2013 09:54
I agree with you, Lord Sauron. That's a very good viewpoint to have. Some people are very rude or hateful, even violent, towards certain religions that they know little about. And then there are those people that may not understand or agree with a certain religion, yet they still have respect for it. And I am grateful for that

And as for Legolas23's question from a couple posts back, there's not much I would change about my faith even if I had the power to. It's more of the people within the faith that I would like to change. Some people got it wrong, and it's pushing people away instead of drawing them towards us. For example, I strongly dislike when people hang out on street corners yelling at people and holding signs that say that you're going to Hell if you don't believe in God. That is such a sad thing to see. Using scare tactics isn't the most effective way to win people over. Who would want to be accepted into a religion when they're being yelled at? I wouldn't. It doesn't seem very loving or accepting. Things like that push people away from a religion more often than it draws them to it. And that gives people the wrong impression about a religion and can turn them off to it for good.
"Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!"
findemaxam48
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on: June 08, 2013 12:17
I agree with lotrelessar. I do wish sometimes though that I could change people who are accusatory in a church or organization, People who say "Jesus loves you" and then turn around and act all high and mighty, playing God. This turns people away from church, when the messege that should be sent it, "Come in, we love you despite your faults." Worst yet are those people who shun another for bad desisions they made. To quote a Christian song, "You are more than the choices that you make, you are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you've been remade."
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Legolas23
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on: June 17, 2013 06:08
What i think is a little funny is when people say that Christians have no freedom. it is not like we are forced into this religion. it is a choice to live this life style. it is a choice to follow the Bible. and i can say that it gives me more freedom! i dont know what i would do without Jesus and his guidance in this world.
Gilrin
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on: November 28, 2013 12:59
I am Pagan and a Gray Witch. As a Gray Witch, I believe in balance. Magick is neither black nor white. It is a tool. It is the intent of the spell worker that matters. Life itself works best with the balance of dark and light. One cannot exist without the other.
13 Powers do the Witches claim. Their right to lineage by Hecate's name. Tie a knot and say the words, or hand on head- the blessing conferred.
Gandolorin
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on: November 28, 2013 03:48
What really gets me riled is intolerance in religions and pseudo religions. The latter would include any of the authoritarian / totalitarian regimes with personality cults like those around Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim-Il-Sung in North Korea (that is about as far out as any such cult has gone in recent memory). I always have to laugh cynically when adherents of religions try to paint these cultists as atheists. Oh, they’re anti-clerical, no doubt about that, but that is because they view religions (or at least their official representatives) as rivals in the same arena. The same holds true on a much smaller scale for some sects whose leaders are not to be questioned, including some Indian Ashrams. Come to think of it, it also holds true for, to use it as a generic term, Wall Street (anybody thinking about dancing around golden calves is right on the money).
To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, the eminent Darwinian of our days: “do you believe in Odin? In Zeus / Jupiter? In Ahura Masda (Zoroastrism in early Persia)? In Amun or Aton (Egypt)? (add faith of your choice). No? So as far as these deities go, you’re an atheist. Well, I’ve simply progressed one God further.”
I personally think that religious beliefs are among the most private aspects of any person, and so long as they don’t go proselytizing, meaning intruding on other people, fine. Separation of church and state, by all means, the state neither promotes nor bans any one specific religion. Unless a “religion” becomes too aggressive and intolerant, where it is the state’s function to protect the “non-believers” from such aggression. When the opposite is the case (many Islamic countries, states like China, North Korea etc., Hitler’s Nazi Germany, some of the former Warsaw Pact Countries and states of the former USSR, …) you tend to see something of a siege mentality, the powers-that-be desperately trying to control the information their “believers” are allowed to receive. A sign of desperate weakness, for a strong faith should be able to stay calmly centered upon itself and partake of the marketplace of ideas with confidence. But powers-that-be whose main purpose in life is to pull the wool over people’s eyes so that they can stay in power indefinitely (and often become criminally rich in the process) want that wool to stay put. And they are not amused about people fiddling with that wool.
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findemaxam48
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on: November 29, 2013 05:26
Gandolorin, could I ask you something? My intention is not to offened you, but, have you ever considered that many religions require that faith is to be shared? Im not attacking you here.

For example, in my Christian faith, we are all encouraged to share the gospel with many people, in order that we may all be together in heaven. the people who are so called "imposing religion" may just love you enough to worry about your eternity, just like, in the Christian faith, Jesus died for us. To me, that is a real kind of love--someone willing to push the boundries to get you to hear. People are always saying that if you open your ears/eyes, your hear/see so much more. If you keep an open mind and look at it from a religious point of view, then it may become an itsy bit clearer.

In regards to your statements about rulers throughout history: no matter what the rulers say, if the people are devout, they will blaze their own paths and find the truth for themselves. Real revolutionaries don;t wait for things to be handed to them-they see it, find where something may be wrong, and then fight for things to be made right.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Gandolorin
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on: November 30, 2013 07:01
findemaxam48 said:Gandolorin, could I ask you something? My intention is not to offened you, but, have you ever considered that many religions require that faith is to be shared? Im not attacking you here.

... If you keep an open mind and look at it from a religious point of view, then it may become an itsy bit clearer. ...


Nobody can offend me. Nobody can offend you. Nobody can offend anyone else. Somebody can only DECIDE TO FEEL offended, it is solely their decision and nothing the supposed offender can decide for them.
This is about as close as I get to being dogmatic.
There is a saying in the English language that is very wise: “sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me.”
Translation: you (or anyone) can say what you want. To decide to feel offended is my decision, and mine only. If I have too many issues where I react offended (not because I have decided so, but because I have no control over my reactions) then I am a marionette. People can pull strings or push red buttons and I uncontrollably explode.
NO WAY!
It is a massive problem with religions, specifically religious believers, and here I cannot avoid being massively critical of Islam as it is. Not Moslems, I pity them, because their rulers try to make sure they remain ignorant, and that the marionette string remain firmly in their, the ruler’s, hands. Other religions or religious beliefs are not far behind, and in the realm of Christianity (at least that derived from Europe) the excuse of ignorance is simply not viable, as the opportunties to reduce ignorance are there for those willing to partake of them.

And as for keeping an open mind and religious point of view, my experience is that the two concepts are practically mutually exclusive.

[Edited on 12/01/2013 by Gandolorin]
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Gilrin
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on: November 30, 2013 07:06
findemaxam48, that may be the case... but if someone has their own beliefs and is comfortable with who they are and what they believe... then you should respect them enough to not 'share the gospel' if they do not wish to hear it. Not everyone believes the same thing and to try and push your beliefs on someone is wrong. That is why Paganism is such a good fit for me. We do not try to convert anyone. Ever. Now if someone is interested in our beliefs, we will tell them but we do not try to get people to agree with us. It's not right. Everyone has the right to believe what they want and no one has the right to push their beliefs unto others. Especially if the other person does not agree.
13 Powers do the Witches claim. Their right to lineage by Hecate's name. Tie a knot and say the words, or hand on head- the blessing conferred.
BelleBayard
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on: November 30, 2013 07:16
Wow... this has really gotten intense. I agree that religion/spiritual path is a very personal thing. I have no trouble with anyone believing in certain things, but please don't try to make me believe it as well. I may agree with some things from many different paths, but that doesn't mean I exclude everything else. And yes, faith is a tricky thing.In my youth I sought to find the right place for myself and not until I was MUCH older did I find it.
Gandolorin
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on: December 01, 2013 10:49
findemaxam48 said:Gandolorin, could I ask you something? My intention is not to offened you, but, have you ever considered that many religions require that faith is to be shared? Im not attacking you here.


Dear findemaxam48, my principal concern was to dispel any anxiety you may have felt about offending me, and to say that it's close to impossible to do so (not 100% impossible, that's just not something we frail humans are capable of) . I then thought about the fact that my friends and close acquaintances are used to my tendency to verbosity and either tolerantly put up with it or more or less gently tell me to shut up (mostly with good reasons, but not always) . But CoE members have no such familiarity with me (yet) and may have puzzled or even strange looks on their faces when reading my stuff (I may have a distant ancestor in common with C.S. Lewis, the Inkling of Inklings, from descriptions I have read about him) .
That brings me to the matter of misunderstandings (editor’s note: watch out, here he goes again! )
I have the slightly uncomfortable feeling that misunderstandings are the norm in human relationships. The best we can do is to minimize them as far as possible. Each person has an absolutely unique personal history. So even when we agree on something, each person’s reason for agreeing is almost certainly not the same as the other person’s. The only solution is to communicate with an open mind, challenging assumptions, your own (and I my own) at least as much if not more so than those of others. And in disagreements, try to compare assumptions that lurk in the back of both your and your opposite’s minds. My guess is that it’s likely you are not quite talking about the same topic and are therefore unnecessarily at cross purposes.
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tarcolan
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on: December 01, 2013 10:56
Hi everybody! Isn't life fun?
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BelleBayard
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on: December 01, 2013 12:21
Heh... Well, religion and politics are two "hot topics" that we try to keep cool here on CoE. We have so many different people with different backgrounds that our goal is to make sure everyone feels comfortable here. That said, we try not to poke at others' beliefs, allowing them, whether we agree or don't agree, to continue to hold those viewpoints. Without diversity, we would be very boring and stagnant. Don't you agree?
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