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atalante_star
Scholar of Imladris and Theodens Lady
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Post The Gondolindrim
on: March 10, 2004 11:42
Below is Atalante's original question, and my summary of the posts that followed, where the disussion turned into something even more interesting ~ Cirdaneth
Atalante: Without looking at the Silmarillion (), how many elves do you think lived in Gondolin around the time of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad? I'm just interested cos there is a number given in the Silmarillion, and its utterly not what I expected ... so I'm just seeing what other people would guess ....

Erressea thought about 500 (or 200 or 1000) MacIlwen guessed around 15,000 Falagar: Around 50,000-70,000 Earnur agreed and mentioned Turgon sending 10,000 soldiers to the Nirnaeth. Celede Anthaas thought so too, but wondered how such a population was fed.

Atalante agreed with the 50,000 number, the lowest estimate being 20,000 and the highest 60,000, so where indeed did they get supplies, especially after Turgon locked the gates and no-one got in or out? How many could the Vale of Tumladen support?

Morwwinyoniel felt we could assume the valley was big enough for food production, especially with efficient cultivation methods. Before the city was totally closed, could they have hunted in small parties just outside the realm? ED: surely they’d have betrayed their presence to orc trackers.

Falagar said that the Vale of Tumladen was quite big, and that elves may not have needed as much food as mortals. It was also unlikely that Turgon would have taken more than half his army to the Nirnaeth, leaving the city vulnerable.

Yet Turgon did close the realm after the Nirnaeth Atalante quoted:
"Turgon shut his ear to word of the woes without, and vowed to march never at the side of any son of Fëanor; and his people he forbade ever to pass the leaguer of the hills." (Silmarillion, Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin)
so it looks like the city was completely closed between Nirnaeth and the Fall.

ED: It is amazing what isolated communities can achieve So … let’s have some fun. Bearing in mind that Tumladen is probably an old volcanic crater, and from Karen Wynne Fonstadt’s Atlas, possibly 25x20 miles (42x33km), plus abundant mountain foothills, how would we go about supplying our needs?

[Edited on 26/11/2009 by cirdaneth]
cirdaneth
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Post RE: The Gondolindrim
on: October 26, 2011 11:53
*bump
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