Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Languages » Sindarin Discussion » New resource for the language section?
Author Topic:
Dunlithiel
Council Member
Posts: 2
Send Message
Avatar
Post New resource for the language section?
on: May 28, 2004 11:53
Greetings, all!

First, let me introduce myself - I am Dunlithiel, and have been a member here at CoE for just four months or so. I've been working on the Sindarin lessons, mainly with Naneth, and I had an idea for a new resource that would greatly aid anyone who is actually trying to write in Sindarin (this could work for Quenya, too, but I don't have the knowledge yet to work in that language - someone else definitely could take a stab at it, though!).

I want to create a Sindarin Thesaurus, and Naneth thinks it would be a great asset to the language resources section. It would link similar words together, list possible alternative ways to say words or phrases that don't exsist word-for-word in what we presently know of Sindarin, that sort of thing. Would anyone be willing to help me work on a project like this? If so, please PM me and we can brainstorm about the best way to go about putting this together. Many thanks in advance!
Fíriel
Enethdan Edhellen
Posts: 1369
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: May 29, 2004 12:37
Hello Dunlithiel,

I think it's a marvellous thing you're doing, and I wish you the best of luck. When it comes out, I'll be sure to use it!

I can't help in any way except to suggest a program: WordWeb. It's an offline dictionary/thesaurus, and whenever you look up a word, either by typing it in or highlighting it, the programme pops up with the definition and synonyms. I use it all the time to quickly find synonyms that might exist in Sindarin (as well as for schoolwork!), and it saves me a lot of time from referring to my paper thesaurus -- you might find it useful.
Dunlithiel
Council Member
Posts: 2
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: June 01, 2004 02:40
Thanks, Fíriel! I'll definitely check that out.

Does anyone else have any suggestions for me, or would anyone like to help out with this project? If so, PM or e-mail me. Thanks!
sindarinelvish
Council Member
Posts: 471
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 12, 2004 05:42
Dunlithiel,

I'd love to help! I'm been working on translations--Christmas carols, songs, etc., and just last night I thought what I really need is a Sindarin thesarus!!! (I was looking for "lamb"--then sheep---goat--finally settled on fawn but I'm not happy with that. Same with shepherd (There must be these things in Middle Earth!)

Which brings up the whole problem of missing words....Take cat for instance...I can't believe there's no word for cat! There has to be cats! Lord, Imladris would have been over run with rats! (There is a word for rat by the way). So should one do as the Old English or Danish would have done and call this thing by the function it serves? In essence name it in some form of figurative language? So could cat be "little lion" or "rat-death"?

Just rambling on with some Friday night Elvish frustration!
SindyE Nad dithen carnen an gwend.
gwendeth
Accounts Admin, Sindarin Mod & Head Stargazer of Varda
Posts: 5808
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 13, 2004 02:55
In one of the Sindarin Chats a long time ago, Malinornë 'coined' raw dithen (little lion) for 'cat'. Having been 'owned' by several of those intriguing creatures, I like that a lot!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Uialdil_i_degilbor
Elvish Scribe
Posts: 380
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 13, 2004 08:11
I can't believe there's no word for cat! There has to be cats!

Well, there was a Noldorin word for cat: miaug. if I remember correctly. Remember that the origins of the majority of attested Sindarin words can be found in the Noldorin words of the Etymologies. Just as an aside here ... J.R.R. Tolkien hated cats!
Naneth
Elvish 101 Moderator
Posts: 568
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 14, 2004 01:04
Tolkien hated cats ??

Uialdil, do you know where in the Etymologies this word for "cat" is .... I can't seem to find it. Could it be from one of the books in the M-E series ??
PhantomElf
Council Member
Posts: 53
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 14, 2004 03:05
Hi there

I can't comment on _miaug_ , however there is the quenya (I think its quenya) word _mëoi_ for cat found in Helge's word list, reference LT2:348.

Hope this helps

PhantomElf
Uialdil_i_degilbor
Elvish Scribe
Posts: 380
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 14, 2004 03:52
Could it be from one of the books in the M-E series ??

I believe it was in Book of Lost Tales II, in The Cottage of Lost Play. If I remember correctly, it was in the notes concerning Tevildo, the Prince of Cats, who was a servant of Morgoth.
Gildor-Inglorion
Elvellon ar Pethdan
Posts: 296
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 15, 2004 06:09
we also have an unclear reference to Queen Beruthiel and her cats.
Námovaryar
Council Member
Posts: 46
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 20, 2004 07:34
Da. In Moria, Aragorn comments that Gandalf is surer of finding his way on a dark night than the Cats of Queen Beruthiel. In UT, in one of the notes for an essay on the Istari, there is some explanation of who Beruthiel is. She used her cats, 9 white and one black, or vicey versey, to spy on those secrets which men wished to keep silent and hidden. The odd cat also spied on and tormented the others. in this way, Beruthiel made herself very, very unpopular.

PS, Sindarin thesaurus is wonderful idea. My blessings on it.

[Edited on 21/11/2004 by Námovaryar]
Andmeneliel
Council Member
Posts: 2
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 23, 2004 11:46
How about sheep/lamb. Do any of you know a translation for that. I came on the internet looking for one. The thesaurus sounds good to me. All I have is the very brief one in the back of the Silmarillion, but that is only elvish to English
(that was from my sister Lisa who is watching me type.)
Fíriel
Enethdan Edhellen
Posts: 1369
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 23, 2004 12:56
As far as I know, there is no attested word for 'sheep', so I've been calling a sheep a lavan daw, or 'woollen animal', although somebody might have a more eloquent way of saying it.

[Edited on 23/11/2004 by Fíriel]
sindarinelvish
Council Member
Posts: 471
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: New resource for the language section?
on: November 25, 2004 05:17
Lavan daw! I like that. It even works in the carol I've been working on...

"Said the night wind to the lavan daw"

Yes, I have the first part translated already but it seems fun to sing it this way
SindyE Nad dithen carnen an gwend.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email