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aseismic
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Post the valar
on: July 29, 2004 10:14
suilad again
i am a bit confused as to the sindarin names of the valar
are they existing, or do they have to be reconstructed?
i know elbereth is varda, but what are the rest?
Aervir
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Post RE: the valar
on: July 29, 2004 10:38
I found the following list on another website. I guess most of the names are indeed reconstructed, and the webmistress always uses a lot of Neo-Sindarin constructions. If that doesn't bother you, however, here are some suggestions for the (Neo?)Sindarin names of the Valar:

Manwë ~ Súlchir, Súlgon
Varda ~ Elbereth, Gilthoniel
Aulë ~ Gaul, Belegol
Yavanna ~ Ivanneth
Ulmo ~ Guiar
Mandos ~ Gurfannor
Oromë ~ Araw, Tauron
Nessa ~ Dineth
Vána ~ Banwen
Lórien ~ Olfannor
Estë ~ Îdh
Vairë ~ Gwîr
Tulkas ~ Enner
Nienna ~ Nienor
Fíriel
Enethdan Edhellen
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Post RE: the valar
on: July 30, 2004 04:26
Hello,

I think Taramiluiel's list is a mix of Tolkien canon names, reconstructed names from Noldorin, and purely Neo-Sindarin constructions. I don't have the Etymologies with me right now though (anybody who does should be able to identify the names easily enough), so I can't identify all of them... but I think Guiar, Belegol, and Gwîr are Noldorin names. Elbereth, Gilthoniel, Araw, and Nienor (Nienor was also used for the character Nienor Níniel) are definitely canon names. Can't say on the rest.
aseismic
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Post RE: the valar
on: July 31, 2004 12:03
hi

thanks for all your efforts, but firiel, what are canon names?
just wondering..

tim
Fíriel
Enethdan Edhellen
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Post RE: the valar
on: July 31, 2004 02:22
To borrow from bagenders.stormpages.com:

Canon: What actually happens on TV shows/ movies / books.


To add to that, anything that does occur in these books is considered 'fact'. Since we're Tolkien fans who remain faithful to Tolkien's works, anything that occurs in the books like LOTR and the Hobbit is considered 'canon', a.k.a. fact. e.g. Frodo was the Ringbearer = canon. Frodo was an Elf = not canon, and more likely somebody's fanfiction. Thus, canon names are simply names that occur in Tolkien's works, like Elbereth and Nienor*. A better term when talking about Tolkien's languages would probably be 'attested', but I've been reading too much fanfiction for 'canon' not to become stuck in my brain. :evil:

* It's a bit more complicated than that, but at this late hour, I'm afraid I might confuse myself if I continue. ^_^

[Edited on 31/7/2004 by Fíriel]

[Edited on 31/7/2004 by Fíriel]
aseismic
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Post RE: the valar
on: July 31, 2004 11:19
thanks!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: the valar
on: August 01, 2004 09:54
It's a bit more complicated than that, but at this late hour, I'm afraid I might confuse myself if I continue. ^_^


It is, but it may be simpler to think of the word 'canon' as used in relation to Scriptures, which is how the word is most commonly used. The 'Canon' refers to the books accepted as part of the Bible. Period and subsequent writings deemed not to be inspired are 'non-canonical', or 'apocryphal'. Of course, what is deemed as canonical by the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox differs somewhat from what Protestants view as canonical. In the world of Tolkien's works, the standard is much more clear-cut. If Tolkien wrote it, it is canon. If it issues from someone else's pen, it is non-canonical.
Fíriel
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Post RE: the valar
on: August 01, 2004 08:46
In the world of Tolkien's works, the standard is much more clear-cut. If Tolkien wrote it, it is canon. If it issues from someone else's pen, it is non-canonical.


Perhaps, but some also like to make the distinction between works like LOTR, which was published in Tolkien's lifetime, and the unpublished works like the Silmarillion, which being constantly worked on throughout Tolkien's life, and were not intended to be published in its entirety. Some consider UT and HOME (especially The Book of Lost Tales), to be 'quasi-canon', because it features things that might not have been true to Tolkien's intentions (since his son edited all those), or simply things that Tolkien might've changed his mind on later on -- like Beren being an Elf.
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