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Marille
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Post Alphabetical prepostion list
on: August 04, 2004 08:48
I've made the following list of prepositions someone might find helpful. First is the presposition followed by it's meaning, plus any comment. After that is a capital letter signifying what type of mutation: NM nasal mutation, MM mixed mutation, L lenition, SM stop mutation, and LM for liquid mutation. The lower case 'x' denotes whether the preposition itself changes, x = yes, it does.

I've gone over this a few times, but let me know of any corrections.

Definitions (by alpha)

‘nin “to/for the” plural form, assigning possession NM x
‘nin “to/for the” singular, assigning possession MM
ab- "after, behind, following, later" L
adel “behind, in rear of” L
am "up, above, over" L
an “for, to” NM x
ath- "on both sides, across" L
athra- "across" L
be "according to, as, like" L
ben “according to/like the” MM
dad "down" L
dan “against” NM x
di- "under, beneath" L
ed “out of” SM x
en “of the” genetive singular only, (plural =“in)” MM
erin “on the” MM
go- (gwa-) "together" L
i – the L
in (meaning "the"), NM x
in “ of the” genetive plural (singular = en) NM x
na "to, towards, at, of, with, by" L
nan “to the” location MM
ned “in” referring to time SM x
nu "under" L
o “from” SM
or “above” LM
trî "through" L
ú, u- "no,not" L
uin “from the/of the” MM
Arisna
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Post RE: Alphabetical prepostion list
on: August 04, 2004 10:35
Looks very handy to me. *Saves on harddrive*

The definitions for the two forms of "the" aren't consistent with the rest of the list, and it may be worth noting that "na" is rarely used. Other than that, awesomeness.
Malinornë
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Post RE: Alphabetical prepostion list
on: August 04, 2004 08:30
Very useful! Thanks! I have a question and two small suggestions for you.

‘nin “to/for the” plural form, assigning possession NM x
‘nin “to/for the” singular, assigning possession MM

I don't understand the comment here... "assigning possession". Isn't this preposition used to denote "dative"...as in, to do something *for* someone? Same as "an", but including the definite article "i" / "in"? While 'possession' is shown by using the genitive article "en" or "in"?

erin “on the” MM
Perhaps add that this preposition is used in connection with time?

Maybe you could also include the prepositions not causing mutation, such as "bo", "vi" and "sui"?
Marille
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Post RE: Alphabetical prepostion list
on: August 05, 2004 04:58
Thank you.

I'm just learning this, still going through the lessons. Comments and questions are greatly appreciated, since it's helping me learn. I will be more diiligent in the future to note that I'm just learning and am trying to understand.

When I say "assigning possession" I mean 'to', as in (give) to Boromir, versus 'to' as in (go) to Rivendell. From what I can understand (which is debatable) the only way to tell which 'nin is which, is by the type of mutation it causes. Am I in the ballpark?

Which does bring me to a question regarding articles and specific/non-specific prepositions. When using 'en' (of the), but I don't want to be specific (A wall versus THE wall), do I still use the same preposition? The same question holds for the preposition 'erin'. When using a non-specific preposition, I'm assuming you use an article to denote specificity and that the following noun lenits since it's after an article rather than a preposition. I.e., ed i varad (through THE tower) and that the preposition itself does NOT mutate since it's before the article rather than the preposition.

Am I making sense? Thank yous so much for the help.

Marille
(dazed and confused)
Malinornë
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Post RE: Alphabetical prepostion list
on: August 05, 2004 07:36
I'm just learning this, still going through the lessons. Comments and questions are greatly appreciated, since it's helping me learn. I will be more diiligent in the future to note that I'm just learning and am trying to understand.

Marille, most of us here are learning, just like you. There's no shame in that, and nothing you need to apologize for :hug: I find your list of pronouns very handy and have saved a copy

When I say "assigning possession" I mean 'to', as in (give) to Boromir, versus 'to' as in (go) to Rivendell. From what I can understand (which is debatable) the only way to tell which 'nin is which, is by the type of mutation it causes. Am I in the ballpark?

Ok, then I just misunderstood your use of "possession". I'm of the same opinion as you.
I don't think telling the two 'nin apart is a big problem, as one is used for singular and the other for plural. You'd see from the following noun which one is used, either by the number, or the mutation, like you say. And as this preposition means 'to/for the' in any case, it doesn't seem to matter that much

Which does bring me to a question regarding articles and specific/non-specific prepositions. When using 'en' (of the), but I don't want to be specific (A wall versus THE wall), do I still use the same preposition?

No, if you don't want "the", you don't need to use "en" or "in". You'd just do like with 'Aran Moria' - king of Moria.
For example: "i roch en elleth" (the horse of *the* elf-maiden)
but "i roch elleth" (the horse of *an* elf-maiden)

The same question holds for the preposition 'erin'. When using a non-specific preposition, I'm assuming you use an article to denote specificity and that the following noun lenits since it's after an article rather than a preposition. I.e., ed i varad (through THE tower) and that the preposition itself does NOT mutate since it's before the article rather than the preposition.

I'll have to pass for now on 'erin'... but yes, if you have a preposition that doesn't include the definite article (the) in itself, you can add "i" or "in" and the noun would mutate according to the rules for that article instead. The preposition itself wouldn't change, as it's no longer followed by the word that would make it change.

I'd say you understand this as well as I do... but then I'm no expert either, of course


[Edited on 5/8/2004 by Malinornë]
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