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Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post Tengwar transcription help
on: December 05, 2004 09:10
I encourage those who want to know about the Tengwar to study the guides available out there, but many people can run into snags, especially newbies. So here's the deal: I have a scanner and a lot of room in my PictureTrail album. I've studied the Tengwar since I was a teenager 20+ years ago and I have a pretty good grasp of it. If you want to see how something looks in tengwar, post in this thread the following information:
1. The Text you want transcribed.
2. If Sindarin or English, the Mode you want.
3. The Script Style you want to see it in.

1. This is intended for names, or a couple of lines ... not long passages. Please don't ask for a Tengwar transcription of all the lyrics of Errantry, for example.
2. For Sindarin, the choices are the Mode of Beleriand, the Mannish Sindarin Full Writing Mode (as in the King's Letter (versions 1 and II), the Mannish Sindarin Tehta Mode (as in KL, version III), and the Elvish Sindarin Tehta Mode. This last is poorly attested, so apart from the attested examples Imladris and Lúthien Tinúviel, the transcription will be tentative. For English, the choices are the Orthographic Full Writing Mode (as in the English portion of the King's Letter), the Orthographic Tehta Mode (based on the title page inscription and the Hugh Brogan tengwar greetings), and the Phonemic Mode (based on various full writing tengwar texts written by Tolkien).
3. Click here to see the choices of script styles.

If you prefer a transcription in the Tengwar Annatar font, I can do that, too:
Tengwar Annatar letter set

For example, if you post the request
1. Elrond...Celebrían...Elladan...Elrohir...Arwen
2. Mode of Beleriand
3. Formal Book Hand
I would give a link such as

Elrond - Celebrían - Elladan - Alrohir - Arwen.

Please posts all requests for tengwar transcriptions in this thread, not in a personal message. And please keep in mind that this thread is for tengwar transcription only ... not translation into Sindarin or Quenya. Let's see how this works out!

[Edited on 6/12/2004 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

[Edited on 18/12/2004 by Naneth]

[Edited on 14/7/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

[Edited on 9/8/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

[Edited on 15/8/2006 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

[Edited on 15/8/2006 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

[Edited on 27/8/2006 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
MellonTheryn
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 11, 2004 03:34
Okay, I've seen your posts on other sites, and you seem to know what you're about. I've got an idea how to write this in tengwar, but I want a second opinion, so here goes:
1. Gwaihir, aran theryn, a Landroval, i vuindor dîn.
2. Mannish Sindarin tehta mode
3. Verse hand
Now I can find out how I did!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 11, 2004 08:12
GwaihirLandroval.jpg
MellonTheryn
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 13, 2004 01:16
Beautiful! Thanks! The transcription is what I came up with with one exception. Why did you use hwesta for the "h" in "Gwaihir" instead of hyarmen? I'm sure you're probably right, but I would like to know the reason. Again, thanks.
CalimaElen
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 14, 2004 10:45
Wow, it's really wonderful of you to offer such a service!
OK, I did an art trade with a friend a while ago, and it involved writing the word "fire" in Tengwar on the picture. I'm just curious as to how I did, as I know very little about Tengwar.
1.) Fire
2.) English mode
3.) Formal book hand

Thanks!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 14, 2004 03:24
CalimaElen, I will be glad to transcribe 'fire' for you, but in which English mode did you want it? Or I could provide all three versions, if you prefer.

Edit: I'll go ahead and post all three:
FireTengwar.jpg

[Edited on 15/12/2004 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 14, 2004 03:39
Why did you use hwesta for the "h" in "Gwaihir" instead of hyarmen?

As the second element of a compound, we should expect the initial h of hîr to undergo lenition, especially if it follows a vowel or diphthong, as it does in this example. In App. E, Tolkien tells us that the Elvish ch was 'weakened to h in the speech of Gondor, and that change has been recognized in a few names, such as Rohan, Rohirrim.' This would, of course, hold true for the name Elrohir as well. And I think that the h of Gwaihir is another example of this change. It is only a change of sound, not of spelling, therefore hwesta (or aha,in the mode of Beleriand) would be retained in the tengwar spelling.
CalimaElen
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 15, 2004 11:11
Oh gosh, sorry! Truth be told, I wasn't sure what English mode I wanted-- I thought there was only one! Sorry! I just don't know very much about Tengwar.
OK.. well, I more or less got it right in the Orthographic Full Writing Mode. I made a little mistake, but I don't think my friend will notice.
Thank you so so so much!
Lachfindel
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 22, 2004 01:43
Okay I think I can transcribe Sindarin to tengwar pretty well, but I'm lost when it comes to Quenya. I want to use "Merin sa haryalye alasse nó vanyalye Ambarello" for a holiday greeting. Classical Quenya mode of course. For writing style formal book hand would be fine or something pretty. Thanks!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 23, 2004 09:59
merin.jpg
Nyérëven
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 27, 2004 05:29
I've been working on the tengwar, and I think I'm doing it right, but would you please transcribe:

1. Narn in Edhil o Doriath
2. Mannish Sindarin tehta mode
3. verse hand

I'd like to see if I'm doing it correctly. Thank you
yensist
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 28, 2004 09:59
Hello. Just wanted to say how amazed I am at your generosity in doing these translations. My request will probably seem dumbfounding to many of you but my given name is Lorien but I don't know how to write it in Elvish. Believe me I am full of shame! I am doing a scrapbook page about the origin of my name felt it would be appropriate to include the "correct" spelling. I guess I'd like to have it the way the Elves who live in Lorien would write it. Thank you so much! I'll be sure to give you credit and many praises on the page!
P.S. My middle name is Victoria, but I'm not too worried about that
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 29, 2004 01:35
I've been working on the tengwar, and I think I'm doing it right, but would you please transcribe:

1. Narn in Edhil o Doriath


I am currently having computer issues that are preventing me from scanning, but this should be resolved in the next couple of days. I will post the links for your request as well as that of yensist as soon as I get the problem taken care of. I would like to make you aware of something, though. The preposition o triggers stop mutation, so your title should actually read, Narn in Edhil o Ndoriath since dôr was originally from NDOR-.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 30, 2004 10:10
Narn in Edhil o Ndoriath
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: December 30, 2004 10:12
Lórien
yensist
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 02, 2005 07:56
Thank you so much!
Springie
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 12, 2005 01:51
Wow!!! This is a great idea! I'm really a newbie to Elvish, could you please help me with writing a name?

1. Anoriel (Sindarin)
2. I really have no idea what this is about...
3. Formal Book hand and Cursive (if it's not too much to ask)

Do you mind answering some questions afterwards? Thanks!!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 12, 2005 09:16
It should actually be Anóriel (with long ó).
I wrote it in the two most popularly used modes, in the scripts you requested:

Anóriel

Do you mind answering some questions afterwards? Thanks!!

Sure! Go ahead.
Springie
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 13, 2005 11:15
Thank you so much!!! This is wonderful!

What I wanted to ask is the difference between the modes. Is the mode of Beleriand the one that's used on the Gates of Moria? What's the other one then?
Another thing is the character you used for "R". It says in the appendices that 2 characters were actually used for that (numbers 21 and 25). What's the difference? (I can't get the explanation in the book) And, therefore, why did you use this one?
Thank you!!!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 13, 2005 11:35

What I wanted to ask is the difference between the modes. Is the mode of Beleriand the one that's used on the Gates of Moria?

Yes, that is the mode of Beleriand. The mode of Beleriand was a mode devised by the Noldor for writing Sindarin. It was used in Eregion (Hollin) and Imladris (Rivendell), and possibly elsewhere. In the mode of Beleriand there was only one tengwa that was used for r: rómen (21). In this mode. óre (25) was used for n.

What's the other one then?

The other one that I gave you was a mode used by the Edain in Gondor. It differs from the mode of Beleriand chiefly in the representation of vowels: in the mode of Beleriand, they are wriiten out with separate tengwar, but in the tehta mode of Gondor, the vowels are written with tehtar, i.e. the dots, accents and curls written above the tengwar. Besides these two modes, there were at least two other modes used for Sindarin.

Another thing is the character you used for "R". It says in the appendices that 2 characters were actually used for that (numbers 21 and 25). What's the difference?

In the tehta mode of Gondor, the rule seems to that óre (21) is used at the end of a word, and rómen (25) was used everywhere else, though Tolkien tended not to be very consistent about that point in the attested sample. In the mode of Beleriand, rómen was used for every occurence of r. The other modes and those used for other languages have different rules governing the use of óre and rómen.
sweetchick200
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 18, 2005 07:26
Hi, Do you think you could do one for me? thanks!

1. Alyssa
2. Mannish Sindarin tehta mode
3. Formal Book Hand and/or One Ring Inscription Cursive (whatever is easier for you/have time for)

Thanks so much!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 18, 2005 03:49
A Sindarin mode is not really appropriate for your non-Sindarin name. Esse nuquerna to transcribe 'ss', as would be done in Sindarin, would undoubtedly be read as 'z' instead. Here is Alyssa written in the English orthographic tehta mode instead.
sweetchick200
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 18, 2005 06:54
Thank you so much! its greatl! I'm new and I didnt know, so thanks for the information about the 'ss'. You do this beautifully. Thanks again for everything
Eldariil
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 21, 2005 11:19
Hi! I've seen some of the work you do, and it's certainly appreciated. I wish to ask you, if I may, to help me on a bit more serious project than a phrase or a sentence.

I am designing a wallpaper, and among other things, one of the planned features includes a short poem. It is fairly common, and it's roots have been traced back to either Gandalf or Bilbo:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.

In return, you will have a bit more than gratitude. If you pay careful attention, the bottom left corner has the copyright information, and the disclaimer. I will add there "Transcription by _________" with whatever name you choose (your real name, or if you prefer, any nickname). At first I was requesting someone to type this out for me, but a genuine hand-written version is so much better.

As for style and dialect, I leave it at your discretion. While I like the "One Ring Inscription Cursive" style, whatever you choose will be great.

If you are curious enough to look, at the bottom of this post I have provided a link to the current stage of the wallpaper, which is basically the way I'm releasing it, with the addition of a few elements and the poem. Apologies for the watermark, but I take it as policy to put this on any released Work in Progress.

http://img103.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img103&image=lotrwallpaper10ez.jpg
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 23, 2005 06:30
Though this text is a bit longer than I was anticipating transcribing, it's not as though I've not written this poem out before. I have done The Riddle of Strider in a few different styles and modes, but this is the first time I've done it in the One Ring inscription style. Transcribed by D. Daniel Andriës, Uialdil.

All that glitters...
Eldariil
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 24, 2005 02:22
I come with good news... It is finished, and it is on DeviantArt.

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/14451825/

If you are curious, your text is there. It underwent an immense amount of Photoshop work, but every line's there.

The problem with the scan method was simply the amount of detail encompassed in a relatively small image, so I basically blew it up to 600% of it's size, semi-manually selected each element (red/black), created a new image where I tinkered it to a single, solid color, and since the result (not surprisingly) looked like crap, I did some blur filters to make it look more natural and placed it into the image. Then it was a matter of resizing, rotation, and aftereffects to give it that extra bit of radiant finish. Overall, I am delighted with the result.

Thank you again and again for your help. I was not expecting it, but it certainly propelled a project that was half-dead, into a final and I dare say radiant state. Thank you.
frodo_ringbearer0922
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 28, 2005 08:15
HI, I've been trying to translate into tengwar numerous times and I just can't seem to get the hang of it. I was just wondering if u could possibly translate

1. Manveru, lost, alone
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal book hand & cursive (one ring)

Thanks...I greatly appreciate it.
*Sére*
Mithillion
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 28, 2005 10:14
1.All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
2.Phonemic Mode
3.verse hand

Thx
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 31, 2005 02:10
1. Manveru, lost, alone
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal book hand & cursive (one ring)


'Lost' and 'alone' were no problem. I used the mode Tolkien created for English and used for his tengwar rendering of So Luthien... in the Lays of Beleriand. Manveru, however, is not an English word, and that phonemic mode is not really appropriate for writing Quenya. Besides, the Classical Quenya mode is more attractive with the tehtar. But I have given both the phonemic and Quenya tengwar versions of Manveru with the caution that the phonemic transcription shouldn't be used. You will find them here.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: January 31, 2005 02:16
1.All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
2.Phonemic Mode
3.verse hand


Verse hand is one of the prettiest versions of tengwar that Tolkien created. It is also the biggest pain to write! Here it is.
frodo_ringbearer0922
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 02, 2005 09:16
1. Michael
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal book hand and verse hand

Much appreciated...
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 04, 2005 11:13
1. Michael
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal book hand and verse hand


Here is Michael in the phonemic mode: Michael.jpg

It may be of interest to see how Tolkien himself wrote the name Michael. It is not in a phonemic mode, but rather in an orthographic tehta mode. The tengwar inscription by Tolkien on the title page of Michael Endorion's copy of The Return of the King reads: For Michael, son of Middle-earth. Elen síla lúmenn' omentielmo. J-R-R-T.
The Michael Endorion Inscription
kaamos
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 07, 2005 03:32
(i've deleted my other post because the translation was wrong, now its right)

First of all, thanx for providing such a help!!

Well, I've used YaTT to transcribe this into tengwar:

Gweriannen na bronwe nín.
Iron vellas, leithannen o roeg nín,
aníron ngûl an níhenad 'obennas,
Díheno nin.

This is what I have now:

Image

Is it correct? I've used Tengwar Annatar font in italic, Sindarin Classic mode.

One curiosity: Is it possible to make capital letters? I wanted the first letter of each line to be capital letters but I think YaTT made it all low-caps (maybe I just cant see the capital letters in it, though...)

[Edited on 8/2/2005 by kaamos]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 08, 2005 03:46

Is it correct? I've used Tengwar Annatar font in italic, Sindarin Classic mode.


I only see one thing that needs correction: 'obennas. The apostrophe that represents the loss of g due to lenition is written in tengwar with the character called the gasdil. There has been much debate about just what the gasdil looked like, but that was recently answered for us in the latest Vinyar Tengwar: the gasdil is the tengwa halla. In the Dan Smith font keymapping, this is typed alt + 0189 (½). Replace what looks like a large comma with halla and it will be correct.

One curiosity: Is it possible to make capital letters?

There are no capital letters per se in the tengwar fonts, but some of the alternative fonts have ornamental tengwar that can be used as capitals. Otherwise, a capital can be typed in a larger size. One thing I've done before is to type the body of the text in Tengwar Annatar Italic in font size 14 (for example), but for capitals I typed Tengwar Annatar Upright in font size 18 and in a different colour. I also like making the tehtar the same colour as the capitals.
kaamos
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 08, 2005 04:07
I only see one thing that needs correction: 'obennas. The apostrophe that represents the loss of g due to lenition is written in tengwar with the character called the gasdil. There has been much debate about just what the gasdil looked like, but that was recently answered for us in the latest Vinyar Tengwar: the gasdil is the tengwa halla. In the Dan Smith font keymapping, this is typed alt + 0189 (½). Replace what looks like a large comma with halla and it will be correct.


I couldnt find the halla with alt + 0189, all the special characters are U+something. Could you please draw it for me so I can find it here?

Thanx a lot for the help! Im going to make the first letters of every line with a bigger font size
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