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Figwit
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Post ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 04, 2005 02:41
Okay, this thread is for the extra scenes with Gandalf and Pippin arriving in Minas Tirith, and with Faramir. To make it a little interesting for all kinds of Fanciers....

Anyway, you can find all those spleding caps by Beleg_S in our magnificent gallery: Minas Tirith / The Decline of Gondor, The Deep Breath before the Plunge, Osgiliath Invaded, The Fall of Osgiliath / The Wizard's Pupil and Peregrin of the Tower Guard / The Sacrifice of Faramir.

Possible points of intrest: Did you like the added Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite? How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character?)? Did Osgiliath really need more battle? Denethor's vision of Boromir: was it touching, upsetting or just silly? That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?

And the Poll Question: What do you prefer?
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 04, 2005 04:28
Possible points of intrest: Did you like the added Denethor parts here?
Yes yes yes!!!
Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?
In my point of view, the scenes gave a glimpse of what man he was before he went nuts. But they also gave a glimpse that in essence he was a dictatorial and very prowd man, arrogant, sometimes, but still a man who would be followed because of his inner strength.
How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character?)?
That was boring and certainly **not** in the storyline. Good pipeweed was highly appriciated throughout the movies (especially Longbottom Leaf), so why this? I guess I liked the theatrical version more. Those things should **not** be in a movie like LotR, save them for sci-fi-future stuff.
Did Osgiliath really need more battle?
It did not really need it, but it was a very nice addition. It showed a bit more of "Faramir, Captain of Gondor". But I certainly do not mind more David Wenham :love:.
Denethor's vision of Boromir: was it touching, upsetting or just silly?
It touched me. It showed once again how much he loved Boromir and it emphasized the opposite feelings he had for Faramir (who knew that very well). The hope on Faramir's face when Denethor said "My son" and the heartbreaking dissapointment when he realized it was not said to him :cry: .
That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?
It was cute, though I could not find that it was Faramir's suit when he was a little kid. This scene was probably added to both show Faramir's wisdom and kindness, and to replace some of of the friendship Pippin had with Beregond and Bergil.
Rivka
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 04, 2005 07:59
Did you like the added Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?

Well, they explain a bit more where he's coming from, which is to the good. I guess. I don't much like PJ's interpretation of Denethor, so I just feel sort of eh about these scenes.

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character?)?

Didn't like it at all -- it made the scene feel very choppy, whereas before it had some light humor which now gets lost in the midst of Gandalf hacking up a lung. Again, it's PJ using crudity, which does not work, IMO.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?

I didn't mind it. Certain aspects of the battle make more sense now. And more Faramir is all to the good -- though I never understand why they let so many of the orcs run forward past them, and they just wait to jump out and start attacking. Is Faramir frightened? Is it part of some master plan? It's bad battle strategy, at the least.

Denethor's vision of Boromir: was it touching, upsetting or just silly?

I vote silly. If they had shot a new image of Boromir and placed it there, that would have worked, but having an old shot from FotR placed next to Faramir looked clunky. And Denethor's facial expressions annoy me. I did like Faramir stepping forward and looking concerned, though.

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?

Yes, it was cute. But Pippin is muttering to himself, and Faramir can hear him from 50 feet away? That's some darn good acoustics.
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
Figwit
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 07, 2005 09:04
I don't have the time right now to write down everything about these scenes , but I wanted to react to this:

I don't much like PJ's interpretation of Denethor, so I just feel sort of eh about these scenes.


You said exactly what I feel about everything Denethor in the whole movie. It's like... you're glad PJ's trying to do *something* with the character, but on the other hand - why didn't he just leave him like he is?

And I wholeheartedly agree with what you both said about the smoking bit: Tolkien speaks with high regard of pipeweed, so why that politcally correct scene? Besides: smoking a pipe is 10 times less damaging for your lungs (and other peoples lungs) than smoking a cigar or a cigarette.
Ingold
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 08, 2005 03:25
Re: The Battle of Osgiliath. The battle wasn't really extended so much as the prelude to the battle was. The battle was basically the same: Gondor must lose all the time. But I'll spare you guys that rant Anyway suffice it to say it's good seeing Faramir and his men leading relatively normal lives before going to battle, polishing their swords, making their evening meal, Faramir and Madril speculating where the assault will come from, etc. makes us understand that these guys aren't just mindless grunts like the Uruk-hai. These men are real average guys who are about to be butchered.

It also serves additional purposes of showing the sheer brutality of the Orcs. Gothmog didn't need to have that soldier from the walls, Faramir would have found out he was coming regardless but he had him shot out of sheer brutality and bloodlust.

Finally and not the least of them it exonerates Faramir from the accusation of being a poor battlefield leader because let's face it Osgiliath was not the best battlefield planning in the world and makes one wonder how Faramir made it through the Gondorian military academy let alone become a Gondorian captain yet this scene shows that Faramir was not expecting an assault and had to plan on the spot and improvise.

So in conclusion it was necessary to have the scene in Osgiliath extended.

[Edited on 8/1/2005 by Ingold]
Aervir
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 10, 2005 12:17
Did you like the added Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?

No, I didn't like them very much. I had actually been looking forward to seeing them, as I was hoping for an interpretation of Denethor's character more akin to the strong-willed and haughty Númenorean nobleman from the book, but in this scene, he just looks as if he had completely lost his marbles (for the lack of a better expression.)

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character?)?

The funny thing is. I didn't even recognize that scene as an "anti-smoking commercial" until you started mentioning it. I feel quite indifferent about it, and I don't think it is that bad because it serves also to show how Pippin cares for Gandalf.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?

As Ingold has just explained in the post above, the battle itself hasn't been expanded so much, and it rather is supposed to enhance the suspense before the actual battle by showing the soldiers' preparations. It's easier to pity those guys if we see a bit of them before they are turned into mincemeat. And as Rivka has said, more Faramir is always good. At least for me.

Denethor's vision of Boromir: was it touching, upsetting or just silly?

Although I am quite fond of this idea in thory, it looked somehow tacky in practice. Not even my joy at seeing a glimpse of Sean Bean could change that impression. Rather silly than touching, I'm afraid.

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?

Oh, it was cute, and I actually voted for it in the poll above. Firstly, it gives us back something of Faramir's character as a kind-hearted guy after TTT, and secondly, it also adds to flesh out Pippin's role. The third part should be all about the hobbits, after all, because they do succeed in becoming heroes in the end. Thus, we should see as much of them as possible (instead of dragged out fights at Helm's Deep, for example).

[Edited on 10/1/2005 by Aervir]
LinweSingollo
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 10, 2005 04:07
Did you like Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?

I like this part because of Faramir's interaction with his father. It seemed to highlight Faramir's wisdom and gentleness even more. I haven't cared for the way Denethor has been portrayed in this movie, but that aside, this shows a little more of his descent into madness.

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial?

Was this actually a deliberate anti-smoking plug on P.J.'s part? If so, it doesn't make much sense. Merry and Pippin were smoking up a storm in Osgiliath. And if it were me standing on the balconey looking out at Mordor looming menacingly on the horizon, I'd be reaching for a smoke and probably much, much more. I just wanted to pat the old fellow on the back to help him out.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?

It didn't seem to be all that much more to me. I liked seeing more of the soldiers waiting around doing ordinary soldierly things - sharpening their swords, for instance. And more Faramir is never too much.

Denethor's vision of Boromir

I tend to agree with Aervir. I thought it bordered on silly.

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin

There was a comment made on the acoustics. I assumed that Faramir didn't actually hear what Pippin said - he just commented on what Pippin had done. Just a coincidence that Pippin was talking out loud to himself about it, maybe. I really liked this part because it gives us a little more background and insight to both characters. Seeing Faramir laugh and smile a bit was a treat.
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 11, 2005 02:18
After watching the EE twice:

Did you like Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?

I think it was good that there was more of him, especially his exchange with Faramir about the Ring. They didn't really add much to the character, though; but, the main reason to this is how Denethor was generally portrayed in the movies - the way he was made mad from the beginning, not just to lose his mind in the end.

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character)?

Actually, I never took the scene as such. I thought that it was the fumes spreading from Mordor that made Gandalf cough (or that, the stuff in his pipe wasn't exactly Longbottom Leaf). So, I'm quite indifferent.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?

Perhaps it didn't need more battle - but, the additions didn't hurt the scene either. It was rather a prelude to the battle that was added than more of actual fighting.

Myself, I would have left Denethor's vision of Boromir out; it bordered on cheesy, and didn't add anything to the character. We already knew that he was not quite sane, and that he had strongly favoured his elder son.

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin

This was a good addition. Like LinweSingollo said above, it added to both of the characters. And, I also think that Faramir commented rather on Pippin's deeds than on his words.

In the poll, I chose the "more about Gondor and Minas Tirith" option.

**SLIGHT SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS**

Gandalf's speech about the decline of Gondor was among the lines given to a different character than in the book; they were originally spoken by Faramir to Frodo and Sam in Ithilien. But, IMO, this transfer was fine; the lines were as much in character to Gandalf, and fit well in the scene.
Void
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 11, 2005 06:34
Did you like Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?

I felt it odd that they chose not to explain how Denethor seems to know so much about affairs (such as Aragorn) and the reason behind his madness: he has a palantir of his own which he is using and being “fed” lies from Sauron. Just a glimpse of it being hastily hidden before his remonstration with Faramir (and his hallucination of Boromir) would have sufficed.

Even in the EE they never really get across that Denethor is a proud character and is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. He has Sauron trying to destroy Gondor, yet he also has a [supposed] heir to the throne on his way to Minis Tirith. Either way he loses out. He’d probably reckon that Boromir would have make a great king.

Oh and the short scene with the single flower on the tree was nice.

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character)?

I wondered if it was an attempt to show the frailty of the flesh that Gandalf’s true form is bound within. He later gets his bottom kicked by the Nazgul, who exists in both the physical and non-physical realms, while Gandalf is firmly fixed in the physical one. Thus Gandalf alone isn’t going to be able to stand against the might of Mordor: man has to unite to fight alongside him. And some talking trees.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?

It did emphasise the fact that Faramir really, really did try to make a stand against insurmountable odds. This also reflects something that he is chided about in the TTT EE, as Denethor claims that he simply let the enemy take Osgiliath on a whim. Faramir’s retort that he had too few men doesn’t go down well.

So again poor Faramir faces a large host of Orcs, and Nazgul, and grudgingly has to concede the river crossing to the enemy.

Anyway if you like fighting then more fighting is always welcome.


[Edited on 11/1/2005 by Void]

[Edited on 11/1/2005 by Void]
Puppet_Master
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 11, 2005 07:13
I liked it better Denethor, so voted for Boromirvision/wizard pupil, it was good acting scene...but still changes are too much

But hated more Gandalf:
Gandalf is just a clasist, he undervalue Denethor for not being a kingly blood, he ofend and kill Denethor without a good reason

Bad Gandalf
Springie
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 11, 2005 09:41
Did you like Denethor parts here? Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?

Um... I don't really care for Denethor, but I think that the additions were good. After hearing him say that there was no hope for Men and seeing that small white flower on the Tree, I actually stopped breathing for a while.

And it was nice to hear about Gondor. If the movies lacked anything - it especially were history and lore.

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character)?

Frankly, I didn't realize it could've been taken as that, too. I just felt concerned for Gandalf. Oh, and IMHO, when Pippin leaves Merry and Merry says "You smoke too much, Pip" - that seems to be more of an Anti-Smoking commercial to me.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?

I haven't noticed the actual battle being extended, but the pre-battle snip was really nice. My personal favorite was: "They're not coming from the north" - it somehow reminded me of Boromir's "They've got a cave troll"...

Denethor's vision of Boromir

Well, the vision itself was disappointing, but Denethor's reaction and Faramir's hurt was important, I think. Denethor actually had me there for a moment when he said "My son".

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?

Maybe not THE cutest but definitely cute. As to the acoustics - it is possible. If you listen attentively when Pippin sings, you can hear how the sound carries and echoes - it's really good. Such halls were made for such acoustics. And Faramir wasn't THAT far away.
I liked about the dragons, though I didn't get he was talking about himself at first. IMHO, this scene is wonderful. As it was said somewhere in the Appendices (though on another matter - about the song) - "It brings a whole new level of respect to Pippin" And Faramir needed that kind of reassurance.
Laurasia
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 12, 2005 12:39
Hello Figwit. :wave:

I really like the vision of Boromir scene. It was rather upsetting, but made Faramir's plight, regarding his father's feeling towards him, even more endearing.

I also was VERY happy to see some actual conversation between Pippin & Faramir, though I would have liked to see more.

Sincerely,
Laurasia
Rivka
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 12, 2005 04:55
Faramir is definitely talking to Pippin regarding what he was muttering about:

Pippin: What were you thinking, Peregrin Took? What service can a Hobbit offer such a great lord of Men?

Faramir: (walking into the room) It was well-done. A generous deed should not be checked with cold counsel. You are to join the tower guard.

I agree the acoustics in the building could be awesome and he could have actually heard what Pippin said...but I still think it looks strange, to be replying to him from several feet away, and could only have heard what Pippin said while in the other room. It's a minor thing -- but one of those things that I immediately noticed while watching it the first time, and thought was strange.

Agreed about the flower on the tree -- it gave me chills the first time I saw it.
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
LinweSingollo
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 12, 2005 06:01
It could be acoustics. I just remembered, once a upon a time, when I visited Washington D.C. - the capitol building, I think. In one of the rooms, you could have people standing at opposite ends, whisper something, and it would be as if they were standing next to you. amazing.

Yes, I agree, Rivka, I thought it looked strange, too!
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
Child_of_Lúthien
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 13, 2005 08:14
Did you like the added Denethor parts here?
Yes, I did. It made the scene seem more real to me.

Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite? I think it did enhance his character. I'm not a Denethor fan, so it would've been fine with me if they didn't add anything. It made it nice in my opinion, though...

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character?)?
I had no idea it was an anti-smoking commercial. Well, I didn't mind it. It did seem a little choppy with Gandalf trying to talk between coughs.

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?
No, I don't think it needed it. I don't mind it being there, but it didn't need it.

Denethor's vision of Boromir: was it touching, upsetting or just silly?
I thought it was touching.

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?
I loved this scene! It was so sweet! I'm so glad that they included it in the Extended Edition.
Melmë
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 21, 2005 02:48
Did you like the added Denethor parts here?
I like the added parts with Denethor. They add something to the character of Denethor. I think it showed that Denethor is more than the character in the TE who seemed kind of insane
How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial
I didn't know that is was ment as a Anti-Smoking Commercial untill I read it here. It doen't really bother me.
Did Osgiliath really need more battle?
The extra battle footage in Osgilliath was not really necesary IMO but I didn't mind it being there.
Denethor's vision of Boromir:
I thought Denethor's vision of Boromir was very touching. Somehow I think it makes Denethor more human, it shows that he does care and that he is hartbroken over the loss of his firstborn son.
I liked that in the EE there was more about Gondor and Minas Tirith. Little things such Gandalf saying that they are still guarding the White tree because they still have hope and later the single white flower blooming. I absolutely adored that.
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 21, 2005 04:16
I don't have enough time to analyze everything but...

I like the vision of Boromir, I am a sucker for the overly sentimental! :love:
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 21, 2005 08:21
Did you like the added Denethor parts here?
Yes, I did. I showed more clearly his viewpoint of how he saw Farmamir, what he wished more of his son (Faramir), and how much he really did love Boromir. That part where he got that "vison" was kinda "touching". Sad...but cool.

Did they enhance his character, or do the exact opposite?
Oh they enhanced his character all right. Refer to answer above.

How did you feel about the Anti-Smoking Commercial (in character?)?
What commercial? lol..

Did Osgiliath really need more battle?
Ohhhh yeah.

Denethor's vision of Boromir: was it touching, upsetting, or just silly?
Refer to above.

That little moment between Faramir and Pippin - wasn't it just the cutest thing you ever saw?
I bought the ROTK EE mainly just to see that part!!

Oh, and I voted for the last one of course. Faramir and Pip - it was just...sweet beyond words. :hug: Actually, it was a bit too much for me; there were like, a hundred added scenes w/ Pippin in it!!

foolofatook~
IntotheWest23
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: January 22, 2005 03:54
i luvv when pippin nd faramir are talking!! my favorite line is "thought im not likley to grow any taller, save sideways"

(which is from the book)

i luvv it!!
Sassyfriend
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Post Re: ROTK EE Sequence to Sequence #3: Minas Tirith
on: September 20, 2012 11:15
Loved the little talk between Pippin and Faramir and also the extra Boromir scenes
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