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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: August 01, 2005 07:43
I thought that it would be worthwhile to move this entire discussion from the past;

Nonetheless for long it seemed to the Númenorians that they prospered, and if they were not increased in happiness, yet they grew more strong. and their rich men ever richer. For with the aid of Sauron they multiplied their possesions, and they devised engines, and they built ever greater ships. And they sailed now with power and armoury to Middle-earth, and they came no longer as bringers of gifts, nor even as rulers , but as fierce men of war. And they hunted the men of Middle-earth and took their possessions and enslaved them,...

The accumulation/worship of wealth is no substitute for true happiness(draw your own parallels) and doesn't lead to happiness



[Edited on 21/3/2010 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Nerdanel_Amarie
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Post RE: quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: August 01, 2005 03:45
Thus, with the aid of Sauron, the Númenorians were able to make significant technological advances which because of the convience they bestowed, they automatically associated with good. And with this new technology they perhaps felt entitled to "civilize" the other men of the world, believing themselves to be superior (or paternalistic). The Númenorian imperialism, just with imperialism in our own world's history (I can't help but think of Tolkien's very own Britain), harkens their demise.
Tolkien makes a potent message with the fall of Númenor.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: August 03, 2005 01:01
That was well said ! All of Europe's maritime powers feel into the same trap, that of treating the natives of the lands they visited(pillaged) as inferior simply because they were technologically behind. They settled the lands and tookwhatever they wanted without regards for the natives and their rights. The parallel cannot go to far though as Numenor was destroyed and our colonies broke away on their own while Numenor's colonies never did break away.
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Ii was also thinking of so many of us obtaining more and more 'stuff (3 or 4 TV sets, 2 or 3 cars , bigger and bigger homes etc.) without an increase in our level of happiness.

[Edited on 3/8/2005 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Celebrian
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Post RE: quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: August 08, 2005 05:19
It can depend on your definition of destruction. Look at what happened to Rome. Yes, it's still there but certainly not what it once was. The history of the US is another that can get uncomfortable if examined closely.

As for Middle Earth, the Numenoriens didn't really change their overall intention. When Aragorn reclaimed the throne of Gondor he became the King of Middle Earth to whom lesser folk (Rohan, Hill Men, Hobbits) were expected to pay homage.
Nerdanel_Amarie
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Post RE: quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: August 08, 2005 07:48
Initially I think the Númenorians explored because, in their days of enlightenment, they were motivated by a more benevolent curiosity. Later, as they fell into decadence and the idea of their inescapable deaths made them more desperate, they explored with greater ruthlessness and a desire to dominate. To relate it to our own world's history I guess it would be like going from Prince Henry the Navigator to Hernan Cortes, although nowhere in Akallabeth does it say that the Númenorians obliterated the native populations... So its true that the intention was the same: explore new territories, gain glory for Númenor, spread the wealth of their civilization, however the benevolence of these missions greatly decreased as the centuries wore on.
Figwit
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Post RE: quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: August 08, 2005 09:08
To relate it to our own world's history I guess it would be like going from Prince Henry the Navigator to Hernan Cortes, although nowhere in Akallabeth does it say that the Númenorians obliterated the native populations... So its true that the intention was the same: explore new territories, gain glory for Númenor, spread the wealth of their civilization, however the benevolence of these missions greatly decreased as the centuries wore on.


Was it ever, I wonder? I mean, even if they meant well it started from a sense of superiority.

Throughout all his works, Tolkien warns for people who feel superior to others (Saruman, for instance; Denethor; Fëanor ). On the other hand there's Strider, who takes his friendship with Bilbo as seriously as he takes everything (could be Strider being a boring guy, but well..) or Faramir showing respect for Frodo and Sam.
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Post RE: quote of the Week -Mar21st 2010- Akallabeth
on: March 18, 2011 05:13
Initially I think the Númenorians explored because, in their days of enlightenment, they were motivated by a more benevolent curiosity. Later, as they fell into decadence and the idea of their inescapable deaths made them more desperate, they explored with greater ruthlessness and a desire to dominate. To relate it to our own world's history I guess it would be like going from Prince Henry the Navigator to Hernan Cortes, although nowhere in Akallabeth does it say that the Númenorians obliterated the native populations... So its true that the intention was the same: explore new territories, gain glory for Númenor, spread the wealth of their civilization, however the benevolence of these missions greatly decreased as the centuries wore on.







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