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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 17, 2005 01:18
When you have an idea, and aren't sure whether it will fit in TR or how to proceed with character/plotline development, come talk to the moderators in this thread. We'll be happy to answer your questions, guide you along and work with you on any problems you may be having. We look forward to seeing you here.


[Edited on 8/1/2006 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 18, 2005 11:24
PB says it well. The mods are on your side, players. We want this to be a fun place for all, including we mods who also post in many threads.

So don't be shy.....stop by.

Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Nevaeh__Elenath
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 20, 2005 05:51
Okay, here's my first question:

So my characters Amariel, Emrik, Kerwin, and possibly Tiradan (can be viewed here: http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=RPG&file=index&action=viewcharacter&pn_uid=15935 )
Aren't acceptable?
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 20, 2005 08:33
Okay, went over all your chars. Here's my opinion:

Amariel...no! Too much magic/shape-shifting and no returning from death.
Emerik...No! Way too magic/shape-shifting
Kerwin...Possible. No turning into anything, he can speak to any animal he wants but none can speak to him, and NO trenchcoats existed in ME.
Tiradan...Okay. Without the powers

You have some perfectly acceptable chars; e.g. Nevaeh (as long as you remember not to make her human pers. tooooo hyper and in her Hobbit history she cannot go to Valinor). There is also Reginard Took (fine as is), Ithillium Rovial (okay w/o the ear changing...wear long hair), Desruc (without the sorcery, the speaking hawk, the magic staff. He can 'feel' cursed by his father but it's in his mind rather than real, something it might be interesting for him to discover after all his fears, hmmm?)

Your greatest problem is the overuse of magic, sorcery, shape-shifting, etc......things that did not happen on a day to day basis in ME. Tolkien's imagination rarely required such peculiarities.

Hope this helps you decide who to use and how to adjust them to fit.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Morwen1313
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 20, 2005 09:23
I do have some concerns with the new Tolkien Related Rules that i would like to address here.

I guess my first concern would be about the characters the administration wants to see in the TR threads. Are Mary-sues unacceptable in the TR forum, then? Mary-Sues may be looked down upon, but the only reason I saw why not-Tolkien characters weren't allowed were because they were NT. IMO, I think NT characters should be allowed in a thread based in Middle-Earth because it adds a non-tolkien element which makes that thread fit the TR forums rather than something that would be placed in Monkeygames.

Another one of my concerns was the amazingly short section on ME dress and attire. I saw what was not allowed, but what was allowed was not clarified. Granted, I myself know what Tolkien's characters wore... but for those who don't, I don't think that particular section provided any help. one might have to clarify further. All i saw was this: "If you're going to play in Tolkien's world, then get into the proper attire". I insist that that section be revised.

I believe the section on plotlines was very well thought out, but I can't help but think that some of the plots you provided as examples were a little too TT. There are more things to a TR forum than something involving famous elves like Legolas and dwarves such as Gimli. I believe that, since Middle-Earth is subject to so much speculation about the races and plots and hierarchies, we as the roleplayers should be able to create our own plots that can stray so far as "Galadriel was assasinated, and now Lothlorien has gone into complete chaos". Perhaps the Rpers could even do twists off of the Third Age, during the War of the Ring? Though that might be a bit too extreme. I also think that the section on thieves, rogues and assasins is a little faulty. Middle Earth is so vast and Tolkien described it so vaguely that one could say that Sauron probably did have spies running throughout the kingdom to help him forge the Rings of Power, and to report to Sauron so he could make sure that no one was getting suspicious that he might actually be trying to enslave the races. Melkor might have had assasins to attempt to murder his adversaries. I believe this is the beauty of the Tolkien Related Forum. This is why it differs from the TT forum-- because one may make speculations about Middle Earth and the characters in it, and possibly even twist around the plots that were already set down by the author.

I think other than that, I was satisfied that the Guidlines cleared up a lot of mess and was well expressed.

In short, I think the Guidlines could be clarified even more and maybe some parts even changed. I would also like to express my concerns towards the super mega-enforcement police system that's taken over. I honestly think the administration is taking the rules system to a level of extremes while they warn nearly every thrad to adhere completely to the rules. Nearly all the threads I am in have had moderator inteference, and it is something I wish wouldn't happen simply because i couldn't believe that some of the threads that actually did adhere to TR were getting "busted", and the ones that barely took place in Tolkien's world were left alone. not only that, but it disturbs the natural roleplaying atmosphere and IMO, it has made it rather harsh and condescending to us Council Members.
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 20, 2005 11:40
I'll try and answer some of your questions.

**************************************************
IMO, I think NT characters should be allowed in a thread based in Middle-Earth because it adds a non-tolkien element which makes that thread fit the TR forums rather than something that would be placed in Monkeygames.
***********************************
You have answered your own question.....a non-Tolkien element in TR. That was the whole point of setting the guidelines and precisely what we are trying to remove from the TR forum. This IS a Tolkien site, ergo, it should be Tolkien related. Something that is so far removed from Tolkien's ideals, creativity, world does not fit here. As we pointed out, there were more than enough extensive worlds and characters written by the Professor to draw upon without wandering beyond the boundaries of Middle Earth.

***************************************
Another one of my concerns was the amazingly short section on ME dress and attire.......................I insist that that section be revised.
****************************************

Ahem.....You 'insist', do you? I think it might have been a bit more polite had you simply requested a revision. However, we will see what we can do to assist you in this.

*******************************************
There are more things to a TR forum than something involving famous elves like Legolas and dwarves such as Gimli. I believe that, since Middle-Earth is subject to so much speculation about the races and plots and hierarchies, we as the roleplayers should be able to create our own plots that can stray so far as "Galadriel was assasinated, and now Lothlorien has gone into complete chaos".
*********************************************

We used the more famous as examples only but I do believe we mentioned also that even the famous had relatives, friends, family that were barely, if ever, mentioned...and that the world of ME had many residents that were NEVER discussed. Any of them could be drawn upon as characters. But it is a bit much to slay the key figures of his writings. Slay an un-named noble or friend or family member if you wish.

***********************************************
I also think that the section on thieves, rogues and assasins is a little faulty.
*************************************************

As do we, though for different reasons. We agreed there were the above mentioned existing in ME, but hardly to the degree or in the locations that are persistent in the threads. There are endless numbers of spies and assassins filling so many of the threads. We are simply pointing out that the regular people of ME were not ALL thieves, spies and assassins and that their were far fewer Inns and Taverns abounding in ME than abound in this forum. *smiles*

**********************************************
I would also like to express my concerns towards the super mega-enforcement police system that's taken over. I honestly think the administration is taking the rules system to a level of extremes while they warn nearly every thrad to adhere completely to the rules.
*************************************************

We have posted a notice in every thread to suggest that they read the new guidelines (much needed and far overdue). I think once everyone has had the opportunity to read the guidelines and either agree voluntarily to make the necessary adjustment, talk to us (as you are doing now), or ignore it all, and we have made our decisions as to which threads will stay or go, things will settle down and we will be less intrusive. It is just during this turnover time that we seem to be in your face. LOL


**************************************************
I think other than that, I was satisfied that the Guidlines cleared up a lot of mess and was well expressed.
********************************************

Thank you, that's what we hoped for. We'll review the guidelines and see if there is anything we can add to cover your need for more detail re: attire.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Morwen1313
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 20, 2005 12:29
XD I insist, and now you must do it! haha, I actually didn't mean it in an angry way. I just felt that that part definitely needed to be revised. At least for the people who haven't seen the movie and haven't gotten a taste of what ME attire would probably look like.

As for the thieves and assassins, I didn't know that the majority of threads had things like that in them. I will agree that thieves guilds and groups of assassins in Middle Earth are probably not something that should be in the TR forum and should be kept at a minimum.


BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 20, 2005 03:36
Aha....and her demands grow! *ROTFL* We, the mods, will try to come up with additional info on the appropriate attire for ME, though I do believe it will still not include mini skirts, tank tops, jeans or scrunchies. *grins*
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 21, 2005 03:34
I think NT characters should be allowed in a thread based in Middle-Earth because it adds a non-tolkien element which makes that thread fit the TR forums rather than something that would be placed in Monkeygames.
An occasional NT character could fit into a TR rp, but problems arise when there are several NT characters ; they end up dominating the thread. The thread often becomes nothing more that a Roleplay about those introduced characters and the universe thay come from, but with the locations simply given Middle-Earth names.
--------
I would also like to express my concerns towards the super mega-enforcement police system that's taken over. I honestly think the administration is taking the rules system to a level of extremes while they warn nearly every thread to adhere completely to the rules.

I don't see anything in that notice that appears to be a warning. It was simply an announcement that the new guidelines have been posted. Putting the announcement in every thread just seemed to be a good way of making sure that the majority of our RPers would be aware thatwe had finally finished them and posted them.


[Edited on 21/8/2005 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
kerovian_astronema
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 21, 2005 05:11
I have a couple of questions about my characters in the RP "Finding Family" I'd give a link if I knew how.

The first one is about a character I created named Faula. She is a wolf that travels with Hedia. When I started the role play, I had it so Hedia could understand Faula. My reasoning for why Hedia would be able to understand Faula is that they had been friends for a long time and friends learn to communicate with one another. Faula doesn't speak common and Hedia doesn't speak wolf, they just learned to understand each other.Is that alright?


My other question has to do with Hedia and her family.So far throughout the RP they have been able to communicate mentally with one another. The reasoning I came up with for how that could happen is that it's a close nit family. They spend enough time together that the electricity from their brain waves connected to each other so that they can always since(sorry if I'm using the wrong spelling) each other. It makes since, to me at least, that they would be able to "hear" each others thoughts in times of extreme emotion. If the other person playing the family and I only have them communicate mentally in times of extreme emotions, is it alright for them to keep that ability?

If what I asked isn't aloud, I will understand. I gave my explanations for how it would be possible for those things to happen because I know that there is at least a slight chance that they will affect your opinion on whether or not it is okay to keep the RP going the way it has been.
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 21, 2005 09:15
Kerovian,

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. May not be exactly what you want to hear but hope it gives you some leeway without bending the guidelines too far. Your first question was about communication between an animal and a human in TR.

...........Faula doesn't speak common and Hedia doesn't speak wolf, they just learned to understand each other.Is that alright?....

The first thing that comes to mind is the relationship between many humans and animals, for example, Lassie the Dog. (I could even throw in my own dogs here) Humans speak to animals, and well trained animals understand (within limits) and respond accordingly. Think of sheepdogs and how well they seem to understand exactly what their master tells them to do. Conversely, animals can make humans understand what they want or need. How many people have been saved from a burning house by their pet? There is no doubt that there is an "understanding", if you will, between humans and animals to a degree. Now back to your wolf, Faula. Let's assume Faula senses danger to Hedia....it would not be beyond belief for her to find a way with her eyes, her 'voice', her actions (tugging on a sleeve) to let Hedia know this. Nor would it be unbelievable for Hedia to share her feelings or wishes with Faula...telling her, for example, to check something out in the woods ahead of them. As long as it is kept as a human/animal relationship and no magical mind reading, actual conversations or far-fetched telepathy occur, I see no reason why Faula should be unacceptable. She would be a superb animal sidekick who just happens to be close to her mistress.

...........It makes since , to me at least, that they would be able to "hear" each others thoughts in times of extreme emotion. If the other person playing the family and I only have them communicate mentally in times of extreme emotions, is it alright for them to keep that ability?......

This is a bit tricky as this brings in the 'telepathic' communication. My brother and I are close enough to finish each others sentences and occasionally I will be reaching for the phone to call him when it rings and, guess who?, it's my bro calling me. If we are together, we can both look at the same event as it occurs, glance at each other, and have the same identical reaction to it.....as though we were reading each other's mind, so to speak. I believe families can be close though whether they can 'mind speak' is another thing entirely. Perhaps you can have your family members give each other a 'look' that another member of your family can understand completely. Or make a sound which is immediately interpreted by another. Or, in extreme times, state it as a thought that you can say you 'hope' your sister or whoever understands. The response then from the sister could be similar, put as though it is a thought that she believes her sister would have because it is exactly as she would react. I'm not sure I'm making this clear so just tell me if it isn't and we can perhaps roleplay right here how it would be written. Okay? The main thing is to keep outright telepathic conversations to a bare minimum.

Hope this helps...and I'm glad you are asking these questions so adjustments can be made in some of the otherwise very good threads. We do not want to take the fun out of RP'ing...we simply want to make this the best Tolkien site in the universe. *grins*
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Skunk
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 21, 2005 08:49


.........berethedhellen
Introduced characters from modern times would also be allowed. Some of our most interesting RPs are about modern people accidentally interacting with Middle-earth.


.........berethedhellen
[...] a non-Tolkien element in TR. [...] This IS a Tolkien site, ergo, it should be Tolkien related. Something that is so far removed from Tolkien's ideals, creativity, world does not fit here. As we pointed out, there were more than enough extensive worlds and characters written by the Professor to draw upon without wandering beyond the boundaries of Middle Earth.


.........berethedhellen
Characters such as Harry Potter, Captain Jack Sparrow, vampires, aliens, drow, Star Trek, high priestesses, fairies, hyperactive attention deficit children, mystical beings, werewolves, mages, soul-suckers, mind readers, shape/colour shifters and any characters from other books, films, universes are NOT acceptable in a Tolkien RP, even one that is only Tolkien Related.


.........PotbellyHairyfoot
An occasional NT character could fit into a TR rp, but problems arise when there are several NT characters ; they end up dominating the thread. The thread often becomes nothing more [than] a Roleplay about those introduced characters and the universe [they] come from, but with the locations simply given Middle-Earth names.


Please excuse me while I ponder aloud for a moment:

Am I the only one who thinks it slightly hypocritical that a silly little girl from a little (unnamed) village in England can simply plop down into a (very place) in Middle Earth. Wearing her darling little mini-skirt she stumbles around for a bit, until a couple of (acceptable) Middle Earthen citizens come out and help her. Then the story turns, as they usually do, to how she manages to get back home, save the world, or just run away.

Tell me, dear Mods, how is it fair that this little girl in her mini-skirt (and her modern-day speek) can prance around, being the lead of the story, while a Drow or Fairy is ousted, no questions asked.

Would you allow a drow or fairy or even Harry Potter to be the sole NT item of a thread, given that 75% of the overall thread is Tolkein Related. Would you allow vampires or high priestesses as long as we promise not to let it become
a Roleplay about those introduced characters and the universe they come from, but with the locations simply given Middle-Earth names.


Ponder it carefully.




On another note - I'm not sure how many of you'all are involved in other online communities, but take the benefit of the doubt. Posts such as
I insist that that section be revised.

would not be followed by
Ahem.....You 'insist', do you?

in any other online forum so devoted to community and fun. I felt it was pretty obvious the comment was made jokingly. I believe that I am not alone in thinking that the gap between Mods and 'Council Members' at this site is getting too big for comfort.

-SKUNK
Skunk
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 21, 2005 09:09
Out of curiousity, take a look at one of my chars if you are so inclined. You can find her here. I'm curious to see if she 'makes the cut' in your eyes...
-SKUNK
eldir
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 22, 2005 03:16

On another note - I'm not sure how many of you'all are involved in other online communities, but take the benefit of the doubt. Posts such as
I insist that that section be revised.

would not be followed by
Ahem.....You 'insist', do you?

in any other online forum so devoted to community and fun. I felt it was pretty obvious the comment was made jokingly. I believe that I am not alone in thinking that the gap between Mods and 'Council Members' at this site is getting too big for comfort.

-SKUNK


This is a discussion thread, about a controversial topic. Both sides have views they want heard. Is it really so hard just to phrase things so that others will not take offence? Politeness - which is a rule on this site, by the way - goes so far in ensuring a good discussion. And, as I am involved in other communities, I have to say that a lot of what we mods tolerate here in terms of abuse would have seen bums blasted down out of the sky by now on other sites. The idea with this particular thread is to try and diminish this 'gap' that you feel is growing. We are here to help, not hinder.

As far as your character goes, she seems to be ok...so long as her bloodrage doesn't stray into any areas that remove her from a Tolkien world (ie increased powers).

[Edited on 22/8/2005 by eldir]
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 22, 2005 06:39
Skunk...

Allow me to respond as well.

Quote:
____________________________________________________
Am I the only one who thinks it slightly hypocritical that a silly little girl from a little (unnamed) village in England can simply plop down into a (very place) in Middle Earth. Wearing her darling little mini-skirt she stumbles around for a bit, until a couple of (acceptable) Middle Earthen citizens come out and help her. Then the story turns, as they usually do, to how she manages to get back home, save the world, or just run away.
______________________________________________________

This is precisely the type of character we are trying to avoid. Should one of these 'silly little girl' chars appear, we would be the first to ask for an adjustment immediately. If someone 'fell' into ME by accident, we would expect the style of clothing, speech, weaponry, etc. to change to ME at once. There are ways to do that (check out my own thread, Time Warp in Wales, as an example) if you THINK Middle Earth, rather than the local ice cream parlor

Quote:
______________________________________________________
Would you allow a drow or fairy or even Harry Potter to be the sole NT item of a thread, given that 75% of the overall thread is Tolkein Related.
_______________________________________________________

First of all, there is no percentage given to the amount of TR that is included. (If you have found a thread that still speaks in that mode, we'd appreciate your telling us where, as we thought we had caught all of them and corrected them) Secondly, no, there are no drows, fairies or Harry Potters allowed.....period.

Quote:
______________________________________________________
in any other online forum so devoted to community and fun. I felt it was pretty obvious the comment was made jokingly. I believe that I am not alone in thinking that the gap between Mods and 'Council Members' at this site is getting too big for comfort.
_______________________________________________

It may have been obvious to you but it is certainly not obvious to us, bearing in mind that we have only what we read to judge by....no eye contact, no hand gestures, no smiles. My response was mild compared to what I could have said or done. Anything judged as rude or demanding to any mod can instigate an action from that mod. (Even your sarcasm, my friend). As I pointed out to Morwen 1313, until the transition has been understood by all and adjustments made accordingly, we will have to stand firm. If that seems like a gap which is too large, then look at it from our point of view. We must read EVERY thread and frankly, some of them are ghastly and totally UN-Tolkien. If there is a gap, it's between what is acceptable as a Tolkienesque thread and those so unacceptable that we have had to set up the guidelines and adhere to them strictly until the pendulum swings back to a more acceptable type of thread.

Before you, a council member, play 'devil's advocate' to we moderators, who have spent hours and hours attempting to design guidelines that will realign the forums to what they were meant to be, may we ask that you be as understanding, patient, fair and just as we have been, and are continuing to be.

As to your character, Vanwa, though she is an 'oddity' in Tolkien's world, she is borderline passable, although, as Eldir pointed out, you should keep her 'bloodrage' (and any eye color changing, etc) to a minimum. We experience 'road rage' on a regular basis nowadays where people lose control (and their conscious choice) but it is no more acceptable now then it would have been in Tolkien's world. Your char would have been tried, convicted and jailed (or slain) if it got too out of hand then, as now.

I hope this answers your questions and that you'll bear with the adjustments.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 22, 2005 12:21
In the case of the girl popping into Middle-earth, you'd likely find that she ends up in a world that doesn't stray at all from Tolkien's descriptions and 'rules'. That is seldom the case in theads containing Drow or other characters from other works and authors.
_______________


________________
I also agree that the character Vanwa does fit in, although she is on the extreme edge. Having her originate with a poorly described tribe of Easterlings leaves lots of room for variation from typical characters , although it is a bit hard to see anyone associating with the wood elves and becoming so warlike , as the Wood Elves tended to have far less weaponry , armour, and war and battle technology than other Elves like the Noldor, for example.
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 22, 2005 02:50
As to your character, Vanwa, I'm glad she's acceptable and yes, I do keep her 'blood-rage' in check and yes, she "would be tired, convicted and jailed (or slain) if it got too out of hand" assuming she's in the middle of a law-abiding city.

As to the '75% rule', I'm glad you got rid of it. I can't find anything on it now, I just remembered attacking it when it first came into existence in a (now non-existent) thread.


.........PotbellyHairyfoot
An occasional NT character could fit into a TR rp, but problems arise when there are several NT characters ; they end up dominating the thread. The thread often becomes nothing more [than] a Roleplay about those introduced characters and the universe [they] come from, but with the locations simply given Middle-Earth names.


.........berethedhellen
[...] no, there are no drows, fairies or Harry Potters allowed.....period.


.. even if they comply to PBHF's previous post?
It still seemes hypocritical to me that a NT human girl works, but an NT drow or fairy doesn't. I would think that a fairy would be much more in Tolkein's style than this modern day girl, no matter how many times she changes clothes.

This is not the first time I have said this, nor will it be the last:
The TR forum should be what Tolkein could have written, if he wanted to.


As to playing devil's advocate: IMHO it needed to be said. Somebody had to say it but no one was. I assure you I am as understanding, patient, fair and just as you have been, and are continuing to be. I am not trying to dig a gap, just trying to fill it. I have a vision for these forums just as you do. Let us work together to make them a reality.

-SKUNK


FAKE EDIT:
@PBHF: I left a lot of room for variation on purpose, and the warlike attributes she brings from her People. (which could very well have lived in one of those far-distant lands)
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 22, 2005 03:21
We would prefer NOT to have the 'silly little girls' to even begin but as was said, we would ask the player to amend or adjust that approach before it got out of hand. We would do the same with a vampire or a drow. If it isn't Tolkien, it doesn't belong here.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TR forum should be what Tolkein could have written, if he wanted to.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tolkien's body of work is sufficient to imagine what sort of things he could have written if he wanted to. The hundreds, nay, thousands of papers, partial manuscripts, notes and sidestories have never varied in the direction he would have taken had he lived longer. At no time, not in one of the bits and bobs he left behind is there even a hint of drows, Harry Potter types, 'silly little girls' in tank tops and sneakers, vampires, blood/soul suckers, etc. He was amazingly very focussed on (surprise surprise) Middle Earth and its inhabitants, cultures, languages.

And I personally will ask again........with the enormous background in the body of work he created for you to draw upon, why is it necessary to force the issue to go beyond these limits? If players are here, in a Tolkien site, than is it so much to ask that you abide by Tolkien's world? If it is too much for players to abide by, then it is only fair to suggest that there are dozens and dozens of other sites on the Internet where you can go and use whatever characters you wish and create whatever world you want to.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 22, 2005 03:25
Skunk;
There seems fundamenetal difference in opinion as to what this forum is for.
We want this to be a forum for experimentation within Tolkien's work, while you seem to be the spokesperson for those who want to experiment with the work of other authors and still have the thread considered Tolkien Related.
From now on that type of thread should be taken to Monkeygames.
____________________
Yes I did say that an occasional character from outside of Tolkien could be allowed. I was thinking more of player-created characters than those from other authors. However if a character from some other writer's works ended up in Middle-earth and actually followed Tolkien's rules rather than those existant in the works of Salvatore, Rowling, and other authors, the thread would probably fit withing the guidelines.



[Edited on 23/8/2005 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Nevaeh__Elenath
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 23, 2005 04:52
I have an idea for a thread it may sound against the rules at first but it gets better:

Minas Tirith is having problems with theives, in order to get rid of the theives King Elessar brings a band of them together to find something (Not sure what . . . yet) of great importance that was stolen from Minas Tirith many years ago. On their quest the theives become good friends, obtain the treasure, take it back to King Elessar and become law-abiding citizens, or personal guards or something.

How does it sound? Love to have your opinion

[Edited on 23/8/2005 by Nevaeh__Elenath]

EDIT I have also fixed up my characters to fit the standards. I'm actuall still working on Tiradan, so you don't have to look at him yet but here are the rest:
http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=RPG&file=index&action=viewcharacter&pn_uid=15935

[Edited on 23/8/2005 by Nevaeh__Elenath]
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 23, 2005 01:36
Well now....I have to admit that this is a very creative and imaginative use of thieves. I gather that the Gondorian armed guards round them up as though they were headed for prison and they find themselves in front of the King instead, who gives them the choice of jail or a quest (one for which they will be well rewarded). So you have come up with a purpose, a plotline and a group of what could be a fun bunch and who end up being the good guys....and all within the guidelines.

I like it! :disco:

I am also pleased with the adjustments in your characters. I have to thank you for your efforts...it's nice to see a player who not only understands our goal but is working as hard as we are to accomplish. Good job!
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
whitegoldgoddess15
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 24, 2005 10:07
I love this site, first off. And also, personally I think that all the arguements between Mods and Members are well... childish and pathetic. Members should just go with it. I mean, honestly, do we fight Congress as much as we should? No! And they need Much more corrections than this wonderful site does! I know I should just cruise through the site, and read all the threads, but I just started high school today (!!!) and I already have homework to do. So I guess I don't get to spend that much time on here as I did during the summer. (Boo-hoo)

Is there a way that one of the mods could summarize all the guidelines, and PM them to me? Also, I was thinking of starting a new thread, that would Solely follow the guidelines for TR threads, so could one of the Mods (The same one that PM-ed me perhaps?), like monitor whatever was going on in it? Like, praise for good things, positive scolding for bad. Also, could we make a thread that was filled with (Only with) ideas for different rps? I would start one now, but I am thinking I'll just clear things with the Mods before I start anything.

Also, I was wondering if this would be acceptable: Could we have an Elvish Mob in Lothlorien determined to overthrow Galadriel? I just thought of it, and well, it sounded cute! So I mentioned it, (Duh!) and where do I go to post any other ideas I would have... just to make sure they follow the rules? Do I just post them here?



Uh..... This might become edited, or I'll post again, but I think I'm done for now! So.... toodle-loo!!

Another idea: Could we be in, say Rivendell, or maybe Moria, and the elves/dwarves discover a new sport (Such as tennis, football, volleyball, ping-pong, etc.) or is that too "Today-timed"? Just wondering!

:love:
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 24, 2005 12:22
Whitegoldgoddess15.....

NEW-Guidelines to TR ** PLEASE READ THIS!!**

The thread above is directly below this one at the head of the TR forum....It is written as clearly as can be. If you've read the new guidelines, you would not have to ask the questions you have asked.

NO....you cannot have tennis or football games in ME. Why? Because it has nothing to do with Tolkien's world. NO....you cannot have mobs overthrowing Galadriel, "cute" or not.

Think of it this way. If your teacher told you to study and prepare yourself for an exam on Lord of the Rings, would you read Harry Potter to accomplish this? Of course not! You would read LOTR. Therefore, this site works the same way. This is a Tolkien site. If you want to play other games, there are sites on which you can do it.....Monkey Games sounds perfect for your ideas.

So once again......read the new guidelines and either follow them or expect to be transferred to Monkey Games in the near future.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Arwen_Undómiel22
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 24, 2005 06:11
Just to add, whitegoldgoddess15, I know that the post looks big, long and you probably don't want to spend any extra time reading it, however let me tell that that thread there is all of us mods summarizing the points we're making. What is written there is the short summary of each point, we could go into much greater detail, however we are not going to overwhelm everyone with _that_ much and so it can not be condensed anymore than what we already have done.

It may look long but it won't take forever to read and it's very important for everyone who wants to RP here in TR to read since you are going to need to know what rules apply.

As for someone monitoring your thread - all the threads in the whole of the RP section are read by us RP mods and so you can be sure that someone will let you know if your thread is straying from the guidelines that have been set out for TR, however I don't think you need someone to comment after every post in your thread. Firstly we have all the other threads to read too and secondly we're not trying to treat you all like little children, I'm sure you can all make judgments for yourself on what is acceptable or not after reading the new thread about TR.

If you want help with your thread we are always happy to do so, but you don't need us to hold your hand all the way... I think we have very capable writers here at CoE with very imaginative minds - sometimes they just need to be steered in the right direction

[Edited on 25/8/2005 by Arwen_Undómiel22]
whitegoldgoddess15
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: August 25, 2005 04:42
Alright! And so everyone knows, I have given in, and will not, most likely, be in any more Mod-Member-Monkey discussions. I have joined Monkey Games, and I love the monkey! Also, I think it's CUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:love: LoL. Really. It's adorable. And thank you, but I am a child! :love:

Also I am confused about the mod and Galadriel thing. I don't see how it's not related to Tolkien's fine work. I mean, I'll admit, it's nowhere near his stuff, but it is based on the same basic thing. Maybe the elves overthrowing her work for Sauron or something.


P.S. Sometime I MAY read all the rules posts, but I doubt it. And sorry that I voiced my freedom of speech, but loudness runs in the family! (I think it's chronic )



Apologies galore, believe me! But other than that, nothing can be said.

Anywho, last bit I'll say on that. No need to reply.
the_ruler_of_all_serpents
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 02, 2005 03:36
It is with great sadness that I must express that I will no longer be visiting this website. The reason being is that it is no longer the sit that I joined. The site I joined was fun, without the many restictions present today. It allowed NT characters to exist in a Tolkein universe, but now it scorns them. It's Mods were friendly, these Mods remind me of Communist China. Yes it saddens me that after I log off later today, I will never log back on. I am sorry that it has come to this, and I wish that things were the way they were when I joined. I will miss this website, I will misss any friends I made, and I will miss the fun that used to be had. Farewell, my friends, farewell.
~Celebwen~of~Ithilien~
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 02, 2005 08:12
I suppose it is sad that you are leaving, ruler_of_all_serpents, that being for a whole different reason. From your melodramatic post, people might think you were around here for ages before these rules came. Maybe you need a reminder, but you joined just 5 moths ago.

The moderators work their butts of to keep this site on track and make sure that everything said and done here is acceptable and within the rules. Comparing them to Communist China says, in my opinion, more of you than of them. Yes, they have sharpened the rules, because they felt the need to do so. I think they were right in doing that, a lot of the RPG's contained too much characters with psychic powers, special abilities; all in all, too much that didn't belong in Tolkien's world.

And that is what this site is about, Tolkien's works and the world he created. The RPG Forum is there for RPG's that take place in his world with creatures and being that belong there. This isn't a RPG-site where you can be whoever you want. To keep this on track, we need those rules to guide us and the mods.

If you're never going to log in again, than you won't read this either. In that case, your post would be just a quick stab before running off.

Mods, I'm truly sorry if this post is not acceptable considering the rules. I just needed to vent for a moment. If it isn't accepatble, I'll readily edit it.



[Edited on 2/9/2005 by ~Celebwen~of~Ithilien~]
the_ruler_of_all_serpents
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 02, 2005 08:39
I realize that I am breaking my promise by doing this, but I feel that this must be said. In the five months that I have been on this website, I have seen the TR rules 'sharpened' so much that they could split half a hair. My being 'melodramatic' cannot begin to compare to Mods overdramatic behavior. They have bent the rules so much that you can no longer distinguish the difference between TR and TT. I have become sick and tired of hearing "We work for nothing." and "This is a Tolkien site.". These one-size-fits-all answers are the only things you use in your defense. Your rules to 'keep this website on track' are going to cause it to de-rail one of these days. Quite frankly, I no longer see the need of two forums, like I said before, the rules have been bent and twisted so much that their differences are no longer distunguishable.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 02, 2005 12:15
I guess that 'yet another grand exit' (YAGE) was ruined by a new post.
_______________
A bit of history here; Originally we only had one RP forum (and only one Non-Tolkien thread- and I argued against even allowing that one ). As the site became more and more popular, we started to have more than three pages of active threads, so we decided to split them up and form three forums - so that it would be easier for the members to find there threads. The divisions were more or less arbitrary: simply a method of putting roughly the same number of active threads in each sub-forum.

There is a very good chance , that as interest in Tolkien cotinues to wane , as it has ever since the last LOTR DVD was released, we will eventuall find ourselves with few enough active threads that we can unite the two remaining sub-forums again and only have one forum to watch.
________________________
All of our problems in the TR forum seem to be due to differences in opinion as to what is meant by Tolkien related. That is why we posted the guideines. We had to make it clear that Tolkien Related meant works that had Minor changes from what is found in Tolkien's body of work, and not major changes that make the thread almost unrecognizable as Tolkien Related , or changes that involve the works of other authors.
___________
Thankyou -~Celebwen~of~Ithilien- for the show of support. We couldn't have said it better


[Edited on 2/9/2005 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
the_ruler_of_all_serpents
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 02, 2005 02:16
Ah, PotbellyHairyfoot. For you, I shall long on one last time to express one thought. For the brief time I was on this site, we might have excanged words, sometimes even good ones, but you where what could be said, an inspiration to me. For that, I salute you, I doubt that it will mean anything, but I salute you.
eldir
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 03, 2005 01:35
They have bent the rules so much that you can no longer distinguish the difference between TR and TT


Thanks, Ruler. Maybe if I change this sentence a bit, the wording might be a little easier to understand.

They have bent the rules so much that you can no longer distinguish the difference between NT and TR

This is the problem. By and large, most members here stick to the rules and work their hearts out to make their threads great. But there are a few little people that come in determined to reclaim their 'right' to rp what they want. For examples, just read some of the threads. You're bound to find mindreaders, vampires, werewolves and all manner of non-Tolkien entities. Tell me, was Dracula in Middle-Earth? I don't think he was. And I'm sure there wasn't a pirate captain roaming through it sounding suspiciously like Jack Sparrow.
I could keep explaining, but it would just be repeating what should by now have been accepted. The lack of acceptance seems to be de-railing the site more than the implementation of rules.

I'd like to thank Celebwen for the support, too. We wondered who the person supporting us was. Just kidding. We've had a lot of people that have been accepting about the tightening up of rules...and we'd like to thank them too.
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 08, 2005 05:35
On Wednesday, we injected a Moderators Note within many threads here in the TR forum. We are currently reading each of the threads and the posts and we are picking up questions from those who post in these threads about "Why? What are we doing wrong? What do we need to change in order to make it acceptable?"

We would ask in return, "How many of you have taken the time to read the NEW Guidelines for TR Forum?" The answers are all there. However, we want to help as much as possible so I'm going to make a suggestion.

All of you should look at your individual threads with an open eye and mind and ask yourselves some of the following questions:

1. Primarily....what is the point of this thread? Is there a plot? Is there a storyline? Is there a reason for this thread to exist? Or is it just a place for pointless chatter? How many pages has it gone along with no destination, no dialogue describing where you are, where you're going and why, what you're doing......essentially what is your purpose? Is it well laid out so anyone reading the thread would have any knowledge as to what this thread is all about?

2. How many times in the life of this thread is there a line, "Hi, my name is ...... What's yours? (or something similar ... and with no further dialogue). I can guarantee you that for some threads, one liners like this are virtually ALL that is being said most of the time. There is no dialogue, no description of your surroundings, the people involved, the reason why you are there, or anything that makes a story worth reading.

3. How many of you have birds, wolves, horses or other animals that you carry on conversations with just as though they were another player?

4. How many of you are still using magic -or- attempting to use it -or- planning to? How many have weapons and or fingers that toss out flames or spells? How many of you are mind-reading or blocking thoughts?

5. Check out the speech used in your posts and ask yourself, how much of it is similar to what could be heard at the local mall? Tolkien's Middle Earth is an ancient land...is the language used in your post any attempt at this elegant, formal speech or is it similar to what you'd see on MTV? Is there silliness without reason, simply to find something...anything...to post?

6. Where are you? The guidelines clearly state that being in "the woods", "on a road", "along a river" with only the vague mention of it being somewhere near a Middle Earth site such as Imladris or Fangorn Forrest DOES NOT CUT IT. This makes the thread nothing more than Tolkien-'mentioned'.

If you want to talk about your thread, and how to save it or change it to a more TR related thread, this is the place to come. The mods are here! We are willing to help you amend or adjust your thread....equally, we are also prepared to tell you when your thread is beyond hope so you can either begin a new thread -using the guidelines- or carry on with your current thread at the Monkey Games site. If this is the case, it will be moved over AS IS so you can pick up right where you left off.

Meanwhile you have 5 more days to read the New Guidelines, search your threads for non-acceptable problems and either fix them or prepare yourself for the transfer of your thread to MG.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
whitegoldgoddess15
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 19, 2005 08:19
I have a question that undoubtedly sounds silly, but I shall ask anyway.

Could I start a thread for users that is simply for people to post the name of their moved thread and where it is located in Monkey Games? Because I have a worry that a lot of people will stop RPing on their old threads, and just forget about them, while, at least I, being a dork and all, keep trying to rekindle it. So would this be possible? I would have done it already, but something along the lines of "YOU IDIOT!! THE GUIDLINES!!!!" ran screaming through the back of my head, so I figured I should be safe, rather than sorry, and check it first.
It's a simple request.. I'll even do it myself if neccessary, like look through all the threads for the sneaky little padlock. If you don't quite understand what I mean.. I'll edit, of course. No problem. Thank you! For whatever you choose. The fact that you read this, and took time to respond is becoming more important to me.. I think I'm finally maturing! ((Oh no!!! )) LoL, only joking.. I'm not. Hehe. Thanks a bunch!! :love:

[Edited on 19/9/2005 by whitegoldgoddess15]
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 19, 2005 08:06
Goddess...

There is a thread right here at the top of the TR Forum titled:
finding threads that have been moved to Monkeygames

That might be a start for you. I will talk to the other mods and see if we can't add to that particular thread a list of all the threads which have been moved and any further information about how to find them in MG, if any of the current information is faulty. Would that help answer your question, do you think?

Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
justice
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Post RE: TR discussion thread --PLEASE READ
on: September 22, 2005 10:49
Well i am having trouble again.....I have started two rpgs one has died and the others new but kinda wobbly on whether or not it will stay together. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how i can get people to not join and then never come back! Other then the obvious "come up with a good plot". I have read a lot of rpgs and tried to get a plot that people will goin....but...they leave...How do i get committed people?
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