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OrtherionYuen
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Post What does Gimli say?
on: July 05, 2006 05:43
In FotR, when the Fellowship enters the great hall of the Mines of Moria, Gimli sees the tomb of Balin and prays in Dwarvish.
Gimli: "Kilmin malur ni zaram kalil ra narag. Kheled-zâram ... Balin tazlifi."
What does he say? Can you please translate it in English?
Thank you.
Aegor
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 05, 2006 11:07
Well, I managed to translate some of the words from this phrase. I've searched both Tolkien's and AD&D dwarven dictionary, however some words are still unknown.

So here goes.

Fable(?) ______ night lake _______ prophecy black. Glass pool... Balin ________.

It's probably a tale about how Balin died. He went alone to Dimrill Dale to look into the Glass pool and was killed there by an orc.

Hope it helped.


[Edited on 6/7/2006 by Aegor]
Ilandir
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 05, 2006 11:45
I couldn't fine as much as Aegor's search, just a word or two already tranlsated. Therefore I ask you Aegor, where did you find the words please? I checked the AD&D dwarven dictionary but no words correspond.

Also,OrtherionYuen, I can't see where in that part of the film does Gimli pronounce these words. Could you please say how you managed to get this phrase? Might be interesting to know ....

Thanks,
Ilandir

[Edited on 6/7/2006 by Ilandir]
Aegor
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 06, 2006 12:58
No problem, there are quite a few sites on the net related to dwarven language. Here are some links you might want to try.

Khuzdul - the secret tongue of the Dwarves:
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/khuzdul.htm
http://www.delving.com/helge.html

There is also a great dwarven dictionary on:
http://www.puremagic.com/~scott/Dwarven.html

The phrase can be found in some of the movie transcripts. Just google the phrase and they should come up.
OrtherionYuen
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 06, 2006 04:23
The excerpt of FotR's movie transcript below is the part which Gimli said the Dwarvish. Please see it. Hope it can help.
(Before long the Fellowship comes to a more open space. Broken ornate columns lie tumbled across the floor. Gandalf uplifts his staff.)
Gandalf: Let me risk a little more light.
(His staff illuminates a grandiose hall of stone lined with tall pillars and arched ceilings as far as the eye can see. The Fellowship reacts in awe. Gimli gasps at the halls of his sires.)
Gandalf: Behold: the great realm and Dwarf city of Dwarrowdelf.
(The dark halls are edged with silver light from the wizard's staff, shivering in a light not seen for years to grace their stones.)
Sam: Now there's an eye opener and no mistake.
(Fellowship walks forward through the hall, peering around a column. Gimli sees a ray of sunlight shining through a chamber where corpses lay scattered about.)
Gimli: Haugh!
Gandalf: Gimli!
(Gimli pays no heed to Gandalf, but runs into the chamber. Its walls and recesses are scarred and broken, as are the bodies and weapons scattered about. The Dwarf stops and kneels by a crypt in the center of the room where a single shaft of light spills down, illumining it. Gandalf walks forward and peers at the tomb surface.)
Gimli: No! No! (sob) No! (sob)
(Boromir moves forward and places his hand on Gimli's shoulder.)
Gandalf: (translating the runes on the tomb ) "Here lies Balin, son of Fundin, Lord of Moria." He is dead then. It's as I feared.
Gimli: (wails)
(A great sorrow has fallen on the Dwarf. Gandalf gives his staff and hat to Pippin, bends down, and takes from the grasp of a corpse a large and battered book. He opens it and clears the dirt from its pages.)
Gimli: (chanting softly, sobbing) Kilmin malur ni zaram kalil ra narag. Kheled-zâram ... Balin tazlifi.
Legolas: (to Aragorn) We must move on, we cannot linger!
Gandalf: (reading) "They have taken the bridgend the second hall."
(Gimli stops sobbing, and looks up blankly.)
Gandalf: "We have barred the gatesut cannot hold them for long. The ground shakes."
(Pippin, still holding hat and staff, backs away.)
Gandalf: "`...drums…in the deep."
(He looks up slowly, and turns the smudged, bloodstained page. The Fellowship begins to glance around uncomfortably.)
Gandalf: "We cannot get out. A shadow moves in the dark."
(Pippin stumbles back slightly and sees a corpse sitting by a stone well with an arrow in its chest. He turns towards it.)
Gandalf: "We cannot get out? (He glances at the last, single line, a scrawl fading out at the bottom of the page. Gandalf looks up in the uncomfortable silence.) "They are coming!"
(The silence is broken by Pippin. Curious, he reaches out and lightly twists the arrow in the corpse. The skull slips off, falling into the well with a resounding crash.)
(Gandalf whips around, spooked.)
(Pippin turns to face him, looking guilty. As he does, the corpse slips into the well, dragging with it a chain and bucket, its noise echoing from hall to hall far below. Where once was only silence, a ricocheting noise now fills every cranny. Pippin winces at each new wave of noise. Then, silence. The Fellowship begins to relax.)
Boromir: (exhales)
Gandalf: (slams the book shut) Fool of a Took! Throw yourself in next time and rid us of your stupidity!
(He pulls his hat and staff from the Hobbit's hands.)
(Gandalf turns away. Pippin stands still, awkwardly.)
Ilandir
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 06, 2006 04:57
Thanks for the links Aegor, but those are not proper dwarvish words created by Tolkien.

The first link I know of. Ardalambion is the best for Tolkien's languages. I tried that site before posting, but found only a few words like Kheled Zaram.

The second I checked aswell but still, they are just invented words (I think lol), and still, just the same, no words correspond the phrase. As goes the same with the third link, no words at all.

But still thanks alot for the links!

Also, thanks to you aswell OrtherionYuen, for the transcript. I tried finding it but I couldn't lol! I would have to have a look at the film then.

Thanks,
Ilandir

[Edited on 6/7/2006 by Ilandir]
Aegor
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 06, 2006 09:24
I got it!

It's correct that Tolkien didn't write this phase since it's not in the books. So it had to be written by Peter Jackson's team. Now, since Tolkien created a pretty small Dwarven vocabulary they obviously had to invent some words. So, I searched the net for references of the missing words and found them in Arabian, Indian and Hawaian languages. Don't ask...

malur = shadow
kalil = islamic name, meaning beautiful (or good friend)
tazl- = verb, meaning "to drink"

So I believe we can now compose the entire phrase:

Kilmin malur ni zaram kalil ra narag. Kheled-zâram... Balin tazlifi
Fable shadow night lake beautiful prophecy black. Glass pool... Balin drank.

We'll just tidy this up a bit, and we get something like...
A dark tale of a black prophecy on a beautiful lake at night. Balin drank from the Glass pool.





cirithungol
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: July 18, 2006 09:41
i know that David Salo did everything with languages in the movie, including making up new dwarvish words, his site might be some help to you. http://yarinareth.net/David/elfling.html

the site shows you where you can ask him questions about languages, fonts, and the movies
Erucenindë
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: October 07, 2010 08:03
well i have another question about "what does Gimli say??"

Does anyone know what he says in the FOTR EE, when they have just reached Lothlorien? Gimli says something very offensive to the elves on the flet, and I am curious to know what it was.

I thought maybe it was something that came out of the Silmarillion, and since I haven't read it, maybe that's why I didn't know it. :dizzy:
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: October 07, 2010 08:51
Eruce...I think this is what you are looking for.

gimli: Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul.

gimli: 'I spit upon your grave'

ishkhaqwi 'I spit'.

ai prep. 'upon', reduced form of aya (WR:20)

durugnul 'your grave'.


This comes from the 'Fellowship of the Word-smiths' here. A very interesting site. For the above quote, click on 'Dialogs: a lingusitic survey' near the top, then scroll down to very near the bottom for the above quote.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Erucenindë
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Post RE: What does Gimli say?
on: November 03, 2010 08:42
thanks so much Bereth! Sorry it took so long for me to reply back... I forgot about it.. :blush: but thanks for the translation, now i understand better!
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