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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 20, 2007 12:05
What do we know of the Dwarves of the late First Age? Where do they come from; what are their interests: what do they want, and why do they help and how do they help?

ref 1

ref 2


[Edited on 20/7/2007 by PotbellyHairyfoot]

[Edited on 20/7/2007 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Ilandir
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 20, 2007 11:13
Dwarves were first created by Aulë the Smith (one of the Valar). He desired to create beings of his own before the Eldar awoke. Iluvatar did not let him destroy them but allowed them to sleep and to wake up after the time of the Eldar comes. There were 7 fathers of the dwarves.

In 'The Silmarillion', it is told that they had two outposts (or realms) on the eastern side of Beleriand in the Blue Mountains; Belegost and Nogrod. They would often trade with the Elves and there main interest was in the mining of precious stones and the forging of craft-work.

The Dwarves are a proud race, both stern but loyal. Even though they are not so close in friendship with Elves and Men, they are allies against the main enemy that threatens their lives - Morgoth.

[As for the Petty-Dwarves, those are another matter. I didn't write about them as I wasn't sure it would be on the main topic - being just 'Dwarves'. Although, if helpful, I can give my opinion on them.]

Thanks
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Figwit
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 21, 2007 09:28
I was just thinking: they do have a lot in common with Melkor though, don't they? They live in darkness (under the ground), as does he; and they're a people who rely on fire for light underground and for melting iron and mithril.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 21, 2007 10:11
I was just thinking: they do have a lot in common with Melkor though, don't they? They live in darkness (under the ground), as does he;

That's true - I've never thought of that. Although I don't believe they lived underground for the same reason. Melkor lived underground for protection and safety and also for his orc breeding - being weakened by light. On the other hand, Dwarves lived underground for, as you said, mining mithril and other stones. (Even though, like Petty Dwarves, they hide from others to delve in their own works)

[Edited on 21/7/2007 by Ilandir]
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 21, 2007 08:35
Don't forget that dwarves were great travelling traders and craftsmen. Any one individual may not have spent the majority of his/her time underground. On the road, they camped like everyone else (or cadged a night's lodging from Bilbo!) They frequented Inns, owned pack-ponies, made music. Their focus was underground, but I don't think it was always gloomy.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 22, 2007 12:14
Don't forget that dwarves were great travelling traders and craftsmen. Any one individual may not have spent the majority of his/her time underground. On the road, they camped like everyone else (or cadged a night's lodging from Bilbo!) They frequented Inns, owned pack-ponies, made music. Their focus was underground, but I don't think it was always gloomy.

What I tried to explain. Thanks cirdaneth
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Figwit
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 22, 2007 06:29
Absolutely. It's just interesting, I'm assuming Tolkien worked in that contrast because to highlight the concept of both Melkor and Aulë being 'sub-creators' in a way, but the creations of Aulë were made with love and compassion from dead matter (which is probably why they were sanctioned by Illúvatar), while Melkor's creations are twisted versions of an already existed thing.
I'm wondering if there's a link with the whole technology-theme as well - Tolkien usually links technology to the dark side ; but the Dwarves as a race are obviously strongly connected to technology as well...

(Just thinking aloud, could be complete gibberish obviously...)
Ilandir
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 22, 2007 07:45
Absolutely. It's just interesting, I'm assuming Tolkien worked in that contrast because to highlight the concept of both Melkor and Aulë being 'sub-creators' in a way, but the creations of Aulë were made with love and compassion from dead matter (which is probably why they were sanctioned by Illúvatar), while Melkor's creations are twisted versions of an already existed thing.

Good point there Figwit. It's a very intriguing and fascinating connection between both Valar. I guess Tolkien loved to play with these contrasting symmetries throughout the mythology.

Couldn't quite understand what you meant by the technology thing ... heh sry! Any further explaination will be helpful!

[Edited on 22/7/2007 by Ilandir]
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Figwit
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 24, 2007 02:36
Ah, well... it happens to be a little obsession of mine, so...

Tolkien seems to have an aversion to technology (this is: all non-created things) when it's meant to alter the world. There's technology that's meant to preserve, like the Elven Rings; then there's technology that's meant to change, enhance, conquer... like the Rings of Men, or the One Ring. [Interesting to note how the Rings of the Dwarves seem to be neither, btw.]
Another clear example of this is gun powder: Gandalf uses it for harmless purposes, to create entertainment; Saruman uses it to blast a hole in the wall of Helm's Deep.

This idea of technology, man-made tools to preserve or alter reality, seems to be a recurrent theme; and it's more often than not linked to the forces of evil: the Rings, the Silmarils, Orcs and Uruk-hai (engineered people), etc...

But the Dwarves are a people that lean on technology: to mine, to create jewellery... And they have sprouted from technology as well. So I wondered if this is another contrast with Orcs, who are also a tool, and linked to technology, but obviously evil.

The Dwarves are actually a huge flaw in my theory, I just noticed.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 25, 2007 07:54
Ah I see your point on technology now. Great explaination and I must say, a very interesting point you've got there Figwit.

But the Dwarves are a people that lean on technology: to mine, to create jewellery... And they have sprouted from technology as well. So I wondered if this is another contrast with Orcs, who are also a tool, and linked to technology, but obviously evil.

And I agree with the above quotation. Yes, I do believe Tolkien created this technology contrast between Dwarves and Orcs.
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Figwit
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Post RE: Melkor's enemies- Dwarves
on: July 26, 2007 11:19
Thank you
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