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Ilandir
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Post Is there a meaning behind two similar events from LOTR and The Hobbit?
on: April 08, 2010 03:21
I've always noticed this peculiar thing when I read both works but never really bothered to look in to it. Now it seems to me that there could be more than meets the eye.

There are two events from 'The Lord of the Rings' and 'The Hobbit' that are similar - both in words, dialogue and description. And I was wondering whether anyone finds this a simple coincedence or something more.

In 'The Hobbit', during the Battle of the Five armies (The Clouds Burst chapter), Bilbo is about to fall as he is hit by a hurtling stone and witnesses the Eagles coming, but then he falls unconcious ... here follows the passage:

The clouds were torn by the wind, and a red sunset slashed the West ... Bilbo gave a great cry ... "The Eagles! The Eagles!" he shouted. "The Eagles are coming!" ... "The Eagles!" cried Bilbo once more, but at that moment a stone hurtling from above smote heavily on his helm, and he fell with a crash and knew no more.

Similarly, in 'The Return of the King', the last page of 'The Black Gate Opens' chapter, when our Heroes are fighting at the Black Gate of Mordor, Pippin also distantly hears someone crying that the Eagles were coming, and he is also reminded of Bilbo's event, before he drops unconciously to the ground. The passage says:

Blackness and stench and crushing pain came upon Pippin, and his mind fell away into a great darkness ... [he] heard voices, and they seemed to be crying in some forgotten world far above:
"The Eagles are coming! Th Eagles are coming!"
For one moment more Pippin's thought hovered. "Bilbo!" it said. "But no! That came in his tale, long long ago. This is my tale and it is ended now. Good-bye!" And his thought fled far away and his eyes saw no more.

I know they are not perfectly identical but the recurring events are quite evident. Is there a meaning behind this, as in, any significance to the Eagles coming to rescue and the two characters falling unconcious in battle? Or is it just a form of play from Tolkien to create a similar symmetry between 'The Hobbit' and LOTR? (which might seem to be the case since, as we can see in the ROTK event, Pippin is reminded of Bilbo's event)

... but I leave it up to you now ...

Thanks!

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Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: Is there a meaning behind two similar events from LOTR and The Hobbit?
on: April 08, 2010 05:20
I'm sure that the eagles coming to the battle in the LOTR almost exactly like they come in The Hobbit is fully deliberate, to show how Bilbo's journey and the War of the Ring are parts of the same story. Remember what Frodo and Sam discuss on the stairs of Cirith Ungol? Sam realizes that actually, the phial of Galadriel contains the light of the same Silmaril that Beren snatched from Morgoth - that in fact, they're still in another part of the same story.
Iavas87
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Post RE: Is there a meaning behind two similar events from LOTR and The Hobbit?
on: April 08, 2010 06:32
And adding to what Morwinyoniel said, Beren's story had an Eagle rescue as well, after he had his hand bitten off by Carcharoth.

The Eagles throughout the mythos are the servants of Manwe, and are thus a rather literal sort of 'deus ex machina' (or in this case, 'deus ex aquila'), seeming to represent the Valar's tweaking fate ever so slightly, despite their official non-involvement. However, they only show up after characters have achieved their successes on their own, using up the last of their strength in the effort and having none left to save their own lives. Thus, it is more a sort of divine reward - a second chance at life to enjoy their victory, as it were - rather than concrete aid in the process of achieving it.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Is there a meaning behind two similar events from LOTR and The Hobbit?
on: April 09, 2010 03:31
I knew there must have been some reason behind this. It is interesting what you both wrote, and thanks alot for your help!
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Is there a meaning behind two similar events from LOTR and The Hobbit?
on: April 09, 2010 09:51
I think Iavas has it well summed up. Thanks for that.

Eagles also have a strong symbolism in many cultures and in Christian thought. I also sense Tolkien's personal experience of battle here, especially with Pippin. The reality of hand-to-hand fighting, and the way the world distances itself when you are within an inch of your life.
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