Welcome Guest 

Register

Author Topic:
Candy
Council Member
Posts: 22
Send Message
Avatar
Post Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: July 19, 2010 10:35
Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman and Gollum were all offered a chance to leave their nastiness behind and return to fellowship with their former friends. All of them rejected the offer. Why?
PotbellyHairyfoot
Grandpa Moderator
Posts: 2929
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: July 20, 2010 03:47
Sauron and Saruman because of their pride; neither could accept the humiliation of changing sides and possible bowing down (figuratively) to others or accepting a lower status; and Gollum likely just because he was too mentally unbalanced and too drawn to the Ring to be able to change
Candy
Council Member
Posts: 22
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: July 20, 2010 04:06
Sauron and Saruman because of their pride; neither could accept the humiliation of changing sides and possible bowing down (figuratively) to others or accepting a lower status; and Gollum likely just because he was too mentally unbalanced and too drawn to the Ring to be able to change


That's what I've always thought. Some people's sentimental notions won't allow them to consider that some people put themselves beyond redemption for the reasons you gave.

Of course, the problem with pride is that it blinds people: Saruman could have ended up in a better position than becoming a petty crook and vagabond in the end.
Lord_Sauron
Council Member
Posts: 7381
Send Message
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: August 18, 2010 03:27
in my opinion Sauron was to far gone to be able to return from evil because he was enslaved by Melkor very early into the creation of arda, he also did not want to be humilliated infront of the vala when he was offered a chance to repent at the end of the first age. Saruman's downfall i believe came when Gandalf was entrusted with one of the elven rings instead of him, who was the leader of the istari, Saruman was so jealous of Gandalf that he wanted the one ring for himself so he could rule middle earth, even though the istari were ordered not to use their powers against Sauron but help unite and guide the free people of middle earth against Sauron, in which Gandalf was the only one who completed the task. i say this because i do not know what happened to the two blue wizards. Saruman tried to take on Sauron but ended up being no match for the of the true lord of the rings.
Candy
Council Member
Posts: 22
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: August 19, 2010 08:54
Agreed in full. Pride is the ultimate enemy!
Lord_Sauron
Council Member
Posts: 7381
Send Message
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: December 18, 2010 03:04
Hi in my last post i said that Sauron was to far gone to be redeemed. Ever since that post i have been thinking that Illuvator maybe would have forgiven Sauron, Saruman and even Melkor if they saw the errors of their ways and asked for forgiveness.

[Edited on 18/12/2010 by Lord_Sauron]
Candy
Council Member
Posts: 22
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: December 18, 2010 03:14
I think the most important thing you said there was "If they saw the error of their ways."

I think that what constitutes "Too far gone" is an inability to see the error of their ways. As far as they were concerned, they were the ones in the right.

People who get stuck in an evil mindset blame everyone but themselves for what happens next, as if they can't see that the consequences they are suffering is due to their actions. The only way back is to admit to being wrong in every way.

I've seen it written that fear is the mind-killer. I say pride is very much worse.
asea_aranion
Council Member
Posts: 533
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Could the bad guys be redeemed?
on: August 24, 2011 09:33
I agree with everyone who says Sauron and Saruman were too far gone to be redeemed.

However, one "bad guy" that I would have liked to see redeemed was Grima. I think it's fairly clear by the end that he doesn't believe in what he's doing, and it makes him very unhappy. I suppose in a sense he is redeemed in killing Saruman, and dies with that redemption, I just wish he could have seen some kind of further recovery.

I feel sorry for Gollum as well, which I think we're meant to, as most of the good characters do as well. I agree with whoever said earlier that he was too damaged psychologically by the ring to come back from the trauma of the situation, but his story is still quite sad.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email