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gwendeth
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Post Translations Thread
on: September 20, 2010 02:33
Suilad mellyn nín!

Just to make things a little 'tighter' thread-wise, please use this thread for requesting Sindarin translations and translation checks.

Thanks!
gwendeth
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"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
cothrige
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: September 22, 2010 11:45
My wife has asked me to see if I can find a way to translate our names into Sindarin, and I found your names database which seemed exactly what I needed. However, after going through it I found I have some questions.

My wife's name is Jennifer, which is the Cornish version of the welsh Guinevere. These are both in your database, but the meanings used there are somewhat different than what I was hoping to find. It would seem, judging by the best info I have found, that these names mean "White (as in pale) Enchantress" or alternatively "white fay/fairy/spirit." The idea seems to be akin to a magical fairy or such, and I thought perhaps, given the fact that I am seeking a Sindarin translation, "White Elf" may be the best possible translation choice. The database had Nimbathien for Guinevere which seemed nice. Looking in the dictionaries I see that "nim" translates as "white/pale" which certainly seems to capture the idea of the original well (better than the "faer-" of other translations I have seen) but I am not fond of the choice of smooth as a point of translation. So, I was wondering if somebody here may be able to suggest an alternative translation using Elf/Fairy/Spirit rather than smooth?

Many thanks for any help.
Ailinel
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: September 23, 2010 02:45
So, 'White (pale) Elf' (female) would be *Nimelleth (nim + elleth).

[Edited on 23/9/2010 by Ailinel]
cothrige
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: September 23, 2010 07:20
So, 'White (pale) Elf' (female) would be *Nimelleth (nim + elleth).


Thank you very much for the help. I think that actually sounds nicer than the other options which were entered in the names database.

I am curious about another thing, and maybe you or another person could help me out. My name means great which is translated in the name database here for Magnus. The root given there is 'beleg' and this is then converted to the masculine name Belegion. This has caused me to wonder why, given the existence of the name Beleg already in the literature, is an ending used there? When one is translating for a name is there a time when a gender related ending is used, and a time when it isn't?
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: September 23, 2010 02:02
Suilad,

I don't think the person who was originally doing name translations has been on COE in a very long time. My thought is that it never occurred to them that 'Beleg' could just be used as is. Either that, or often, people do not want to specifically re-use the given names that Tolkien created for their own selves.
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
cothrige
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: September 23, 2010 02:39
I don't think the person who was originally doing name translations has been on COE in a very long time. My thought is that it never occurred to them that 'Beleg' could just be used as is. Either that, or often, people do not want to specifically re-use the given names that Tolkien created for their own selves.


Interesting, and not reusing names makes sense. But, I take it then that there are no hard and fast rules about these endings? I had wondered in the beginning if perhaps Sindarin was perceived to be like Latin with the 'us' type inflections and such. Are they used for aesthetic reasons then, or is it because some names may be ambiguous regarding gender without them? I could see how beleg would be suitably masculine in meaning where another concept may not be.
Ailinel
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: September 24, 2010 01:15
The ending -ion is (often) a patronymic suffix, meaning 'son of', cf. Arathornion, 'son of Arathorn', Inglorion, etc.
adays1234
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: October 26, 2010 10:48
Hello all, I'm new to this site, but I am currently engaged in a project involving an elven inscription on a sword. I have done quite a bit of research into elven (both Sindarin and Quena) and have determined that I wished to develop the inscription in Sindarin and written in the tehta mode of Tengwar. I am asking for some expert opinions now that I have done most of the footwork, to see if I've hit the mark.

First, I developed a name for the blade: Belethil (sometimes written "Bel'thil"), meaning "divine radiance."

Next I developed an inscription in english to translate:
"I am called Belethil. Fear not the darkness for in my wake I will leave only the light."

Then I began the translation process, using online resources such as sindarin/english dictionaries, and what little I could parse of grammar from the language. Over the course of the translation, I have developed changes to the original english translation (as there is no way to perfectly directly translate literally the above phrase that I could find, and I developed some nuances to it over the translation process...

What I came up with was this in Sindarin:
Estannen Belethil. Avo'osto i morduath a nguruthos.
Abgerinc hen im erui belein ned i aergalad.

Translating back to English as:
I am called Belethil. Fear not the black darkness and shadow of death.
After we finish I leave only the divinity of the holy light.

Using the Sindarin, I then transcribed using the tehta mode of Tengwar and produced this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55184044@N06/5118864836/

Now I'm asking for some validation.. 1.) Does the Sindarin translation read correctly? 2.) Does it "convey" the idea that I am trying and 3.) Is the tehta mode transcription correct?

Any help would be appreciated, as I'll not actually acid etch this into the blade until I know it is right.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Alagosanu
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: January 09, 2011 09:25
Hello. I am new to the site and would like to know if I could have help with some translations. I don't think they will be too difficult, but I have just started getting into Sindarin and want to make sure I get these right in order to do the language and the man behind it Justice.


First off, real quick....Is my name correct? Alagosanu - Son of the Storm, or Storm's Son. Which is more correct, if any?

I have created a Kinship on Lord of the Rings Online. The Kinship is a multi-racial kin with one officer from each race acing as the 'voice' of that race, forming a council. There are a few other positions, but that the basics.

So, here's what I would like help with.


The Kinship name is supposed to be Council of Light.

I came up with 'Gur Galad'. My understanding is that this would be possessive, meaning the Light 'owns' the council. I am fine with that, but I wanted to make sure I structured it properly.

I am also struggling with 'Gur'. I've seen it mean council, but I've also seen it as 'Heart', which I'm okay with. The part I'm worried about is that I've also seen it mean 'Death', which I'm not okay with. I don't want someone who understands Sindarin getting the wrong impression.

I think at this point, if it means 'Heart', than we just change the translation of it from Light's Council, to Light's Heart.

Overall, I would prefer to be the Council of Light or Council of the Light, but the less changing I have to do the better, as we are already mostly established.


Next, we have several officer positions that I want to make sure I have correct. I put what I thought the translation was next to it, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Voice for the Council - Lham An Gur
Voice for the Kinsman - Lham Dan Ngwanur
Voide for the Dwarves - Lham An Enfeng
Voice for the Elves - Lham An Edhil
Voice for the Hobbits - Lham A Pherian
Voice for the Humans - Lham An Eboennin

Supplier/Provisioner/Treasurer - Oneth
I used Oneth (Giver?) because it seemed the best way and word I could find to describe the position. Any better words or ways of doing this would be greatly appreciated.

Webmaster - Herdir Gwi
I am also open to any suggestions of a better way to say this one as well.


Possible Future Positions that I have no ideas for yet:
Recruiter


I would rather have it "Voice OF THE " instead of "For the", but I wasn't very clear on exactly how to do that, and and was more comfortable that I had the "For the" translation correct, so I went with that.


Thank you all in advance for anything you can do to help.


Thanks

[Edited on 10/1/2011 by Alagosanu]

[Edited on 10/1/2011 by Alagosanu]
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: January 27, 2011 09:33
How would trust me translate into Sindarin? I don't think estel nin is it, somehow I feel there is a permutation but I'm not certain.


Hannad le.
julbakker201
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: January 31, 2011 11:05
Hey everyone, I'm also new. I'm looking for the sindarin translation of my last name, it's Baker, but Baker isn't in the dictionary or in the namefinder. can someone tell me what a baker is or where to find the translation? Thanks.
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: January 31, 2011 12:10
How would trust me translate into Sindarin? I don't think estel nin is it, somehow I feel there is a permutation but I'm not certain.


Hannad le.

It's possible you could use "Im tolog" (I [am] trusty).
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: January 31, 2011 12:12
Hey everyone, I'm also new. I'm looking for the sindarin translation of my last name, it's Baker, but Baker isn't in the dictionary or in the namefinder. can someone tell me what a baker is or where to find the translation? Thanks.

Hi, you could use either "bassoneth" or "bessain", both mean "bread-giver" (feminine).
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
julbakker201
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: January 31, 2011 12:13
Thank you
widenaren
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: February 28, 2011 01:28
Suilad! i can't find any Sindarin words for yes and no. can someone help?...
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: March 24, 2011 07:10
I am confused. In the "Useful Elvish Phrases to Learn" Sindarin section, it is written that nîn is mine, while in the English to Sindarin dictionary it's stated nín is mine. Which is it? I have seen the latter option more readily.


Hannon le!
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: March 24, 2011 07:12
How would trust me translate into Sindarin? I don't think estel nin is it, somehow I feel there is a permutation but I'm not certain.


Hannad le.

It's possible you could use "Im tolog" (I [am] trusty).


Ah thanks; I forgot to post so earlier! I found on the site actually under the "Useful Phrases" section "estelio nin". Hannon le, mellon.
Eruanna_Saerwen
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: April 21, 2011 06:10
Does anyone know how to say either "shepherd" or something like "spiritual leader"? I told my friend I would find out, but I can't find the translations anywhere
chishionotenshi
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: April 28, 2011 02:12
I had a question about translating a nickname.

So the nickname is willow's baby or willow's child (either is fine), but now I'm wondering how to do the possesive of this. I thought Hentathar would be right, but that doesn't contain a possesive. . . XD Is that okay, or have I confused myself?
Ailinel
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: April 30, 2011 12:51
@chishionotenshi:
Tolkien wrote: "S(indarin) hên, pl.hîn, mostly used as prefix in patronymics and metronymics as: Hîn Húrin 'The Children of Húrin'." (WJ:403) Therefore, I would write separate words: Hên Tathar. The possessive is implied. (If you prefer compound spelling, the 't' should be lenited, in all likelihood.)

[Edited on 30/4/2011 by Ailinel]
chishionotenshi
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 01, 2011 01:32
Thanks Ailinel. Is the Quenya form of child (hín) also a prefix? It's not specifically stated in the dictionary.
Eruanna_Saerwen
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 02, 2011 10:33
What about leader? Does anyone know how to say leader?
Naruvir
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 05, 2011 10:42
What about leader? Does anyone know how to say leader?

Depends on context! I've found some words for you:
hîr - S., N. [hˈiːr] n. m. master, lord ◇ Ety/364, S/432, SD/129-31, Letters/382, LB/354, VT/45:22
heron N. [hˈɛrɔn] n. m. master ◇ VT/45:22
herdir S. [hˈɛrdir] n. m. master ← i-Cherdir SD/129-31
brennil N. [brˈɛnnil̡] n. f. lady ◇ Ety/351
heryn S. [hˈɛryn] n. f. lady ← Roheryn S/436
hiril N. [hˈiril̡] n. f. lady
†rîn I *S. [rˈiːn] (rhîn N., rhien N.) n. and adj. 1. crowned ○ 2. as a noun, by ext., crowned lady, queen
tûr - N. [tˈuːr] n. mastery, victory ◇ Ety/395
aran S., N. [ˈɑrɑn] pl. erain S., N. [ˈɛrɑjn] n. king (used of a lord or king of a specified region) ◇ Ety/360, S/428, LotR/II:IV, LotR/VI:VII, SD/129-31, Letters/426
taur I N. [tˈɑur] n. king (only used of the legitimate kings of whole tribes) ◇ Ety/389, Ety/395 ◈ In LotR/IV:IV, Frodo is called Daur, which might be the mutated form of this word
bereth S., N. [bˈɛrɛθ] n. f. queen, spouse ◇ Ety/351, RGEO/74
†rîs *S. [rˈiːs] (rhîs N.) n. f. queen ◇ Ety/383, X/RH


And maybe:
Túr + -[/i]on [/i]/ -eth > Túron / Túreth "victor", "master"
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Ailinel
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 06, 2011 10:37
@chishionotenshi:
Not to my knowledge.
According to PE17:157, hín(i) is supposed to be "only plural", however.
Eruanna_Saerwen
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 07, 2011 01:47
Thank you, Naruvir!
dancethegreeneyeddragon
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 16, 2011 07:58
Hi Everyone,
I am trying to get the phrase "There is always hope" translated for a tattoo. Using various dictionaries I found some translations for the words but I'm not sure how to string it together into a coherent phrase.
always=ui
hope= hartha-
amdir,
estel
there= ennas
As you can see I have three different versions of the word hope, which means I'm not sure which of those to use either. And I am struggling with the verb "is".
I would greatly appreciate any help.
Thanks!!
Doruin
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 20, 2011 04:51
I was wondering if you could translate a meaning and a name for me: First one is 'Pledge' and the second one is 'Levi'

Thanks!
Naruvir
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 23, 2011 03:29
Hi Everyone,
I am trying to get the phrase "There is always hope" translated for a tattoo. Using various dictionaries I found some translations for the words but I'm not sure how to string it together into a coherent phrase.
always=ui
hope= hartha-
amdir,
estel
there= ennas
As you can see I have three different versions of the word hope, which means I'm not sure which of those to use either. And I am struggling with the verb "is".
I would greatly appreciate any help.
Thanks!!

That would depend on context!

Ui-chebin estel anim
I keep hope for myself forever

Ui-chebithon estel anim
I will forever keep hope for myself

Sevin estel
I believe in hope
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Doruin
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 26, 2011 04:28
Could someone translate 'Hartzog' and 'Cloninger' for me. They are name so just the closest thing to them would be great please. Thanks in advance!
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 26, 2011 10:35
We need to have a 'meaning' to be able to translate, unless you're just wanting them converted letter-by-letter into Tengwar?
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Doruin
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: May 27, 2011 04:35
Letter by letter would be great.
Anette
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 01, 2011 06:44
Hallo,
I have some sentences here that should be Sindarin (according to someone who don't study Sindarin) I just want to check that he haven't translated it wrong. Here comes what he wrote:

Gi Suilon Anette
Ú-firo i laiss e-guil gîn Anette

There are also some names that are in Sidarin (according to him)
Erfaron (Sindarin for lonely hunter)
Thawgur (corrupted / rotten heart)

I would be very thankful if someone want to help me.
Ailinel
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 03, 2011 07:31
Anette: In all likelihood, the author wanted to say: "I greet you, Anette" and "May the leaves of your life not die, Anette".



[Edited on 3/6/2011 by Ailinel]
Naruvir
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 05, 2011 02:03
Gi Suilon Anette -> Gen suilon, Anette!
Ú-firo i laiss e-guil gîn Anette -> No i laiss e-guil gîn ú-belithar, Anette
This is a bit of a complex construction, using no (be!) Your construction could be misunderstood for an imperative, I guess? Wishes are a bit vague.

Erfaron is correct. Thawgur might be Thawur due to G > ' lenition, but Tolkien was a bit unclear here.
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Anette
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 05, 2011 09:35
Have I understood it right?

Gi Suilon Anette -> Gen suilon, Anette!
Ú-firo i laiss e-guil gîn Anette -> No i laiss e-guil gîn ú-belithar, Anette
This is a bit of a complex construction, using no (be!) Your construction could be misunderstood for an imperative, I guess? Wishes are a bit vague.

So, Gi Suilon___, and Ú-firo i laiss e-guil gîn___ are acceptable/correct ways of greeting (hallo and ferwell) a person? But it would have been better if he had written: Gen suilon Anette, instead of Gi Suilon Anette. And: No i laiss e-guil gîn ú-belithar Anette, instead of; Ú-firo i laiss e-guil gîn Anette.

Erfaron is correct. Thawgur might be Thawur due to G > ' lenition, but Tolkien was a bit unclear here.

Erfaron means lonely hunter.
Thawgur should be spelled Thawur (without the g) but the meaning is still corrupted / rotten heart.

Thank you so much Ailinel and Naruvir, you have been most helpful.
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