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Cudìr
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on: January 20, 2015 09:00
surprisingly I have not used dropbox, just had to sign up. here is the link https://www.dropbox.com/s/0o23vuehpak9ske/sindarin%20verb%20list.odt?dl=0

I'm using the dictionary from the sindarin lessons page so I think it should be the most up to date.
i nui, ù i nui!!
boe iathegen gâr sigil.
Galadivren
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on: January 20, 2015 01:28
I'm afraid I don't have a program that reads .odt files (I use Office exclusively). I'll have a look and see if I can find a reader/update for Office that allows it (or if you could link it as a .doc/.rtf that would be marvellous).

Edit - got it to work. Ah, hehe, you're using my dictionary. Looks quite cool, it was something I'd debated doing myself at some point as I'd had a couple of people ask for it.

[Edited on 01/20/2015 by Galadivren]
Mareth_Ravenlock
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on: January 20, 2015 01:45
Okay, so I have a very odd question. I need it for a fan fic I'm working.

Is there a word in Elvish that means 'chocolate' or something similar? I've already tried searching Google for it, and I've asked another member here if they knew anything. I couldn't find anything, though, so I suspect there isn't a word for it. I just wondered.

I know, I know, this is a really weird question.

[Edited on 01/20/2015 by Mareth_Ravenlock]
~Llama Warrior of Nessa~ Sometimes, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carrol
Cudìr
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on: January 20, 2015 03:56
Glad you could get the .odt to work, here is the verb list in .rtf anyway for people who need it in that format, feel free to add it to your site, happy to help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dkw6rgiyxkk89e6/sindarin%20verb%20list.rtf?dl=0
i nui, ù i nui!!
boe iathegen gâr sigil.
Galadivren
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on: January 21, 2015 02:54
Mareth_Ravenlock said:Okay, so I have a very odd question. I need it for a fan fic I'm working.

Is there a word in Elvish that means 'chocolate' or something similar? I've already tried searching Google for it, and I've asked another member here if they knew anything. I couldn't find anything, though, so I suspect there isn't a word for it. I just wondered.

I know, I know, this is a really weird question.

[Edited on 01/20/2015 by Mareth_Ravenlock]


I'm afraid not, the closest I can give you is
Cram = a compressed flour cake made with honey and milk
Glî = honey
or the reconstructed Glist = Sugar
Cudìr
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on: January 24, 2015 10:46
So, I have touched up the knife game song for beat and rhymes. I'm just worried that the word order can cause confusion (I know word order is more forgivable for poetry, so...). I put numbers to match the lines that need to rhyme.

Aî, savin leberath nîn (Oh, I have all my fingers)
eitho, i higil pêd 1 (Stab, the knife says)
Pe dewin in mi laind (If I miss the between spaces: I realized that 'min laind' would be between the spaces, which would be the fingers)
i leber nîn said 1 (my finger will be separate)
A be riston leber nîn (And if I cut my finger)
iâr etheriatha 2 (the blood will flow out)
Dan telion i delien hen (but I play this game: I'm assuming 'hen' means this and needs the definite article or else I'll put a sylable at the start of the sentence for still)
an, i theled, ha 2 (for, the intention, [is] it: this is the line I am most worried about, but I needed it to end in -ha)
Aî, eitho, eitho, eitho, eitho (oh, stab, stab, stab, stab)
riston lîm, horthon 3 (I cut quickly, I speed up)
A be riston leber nîn (And if I cut my finger)
cam nîn sirin caran. 3 (my hand will flow red)

Thank you for the list of rhyming words, gave me red to use in place of blood.
i nui, ù i nui!!
boe iathegen gâr sigil.
Galadivren
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on: January 24, 2015 03:34
Sevin not Savin, and Ritho not Eitho for 'Cut'
Cudìr
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on: January 25, 2015 09:16
Galadivren said:Sevin not Savin

Thank you

Galadivren said:Ritho not Eitho for 'Cut'

I went with Eitho for 'Stab' so it wasn't the same word all over the place.
i nui, ù i nui!!
boe iathegen gâr sigil.
Mareth_Ravenlock
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on: January 28, 2015 04:38
Galadivren said:
Mareth_Ravenlock said:Okay, so I have a very odd question. I need it for a fan fic I'm working.

Is there a word in Elvish that means 'chocolate' or something similar? I've already tried searching Google for it, and I've asked another member here if they knew anything. I couldn't find anything, though, so I suspect there isn't a word for it. I just wondered.

I know, I know, this is a really weird question.

[Edited on 01/20/2015 by Mareth_Ravenlock]


I'm afraid not, the closest I can give you is
Cram = a compressed flour cake made with honey and milk
Glî = honey
or the reconstructed Glist = Sugar


Alright. I wasn't expecting their to be one, just I thought I would ask. But thank you!
~Llama Warrior of Nessa~ Sometimes, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carrol
sasanoah
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on: February 15, 2015 11:47
What an awesome poem. Does anyone know the verb to slay?
Galadivren
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on: February 16, 2015 01:59
Dag- = to slay
Alexanda
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on: February 18, 2015 12:50
I've not been on here for a long time. I want to translate Tolkien's poem "All That is Gold Does not Glitter". From what I can find in previous pages, the first two lines have already been translated.

All that is gold does not glitter
Collath ú-thilia
Not all those who wander are lost
ú randirath mistar

Here's my rough translation of the remaining lines:
The old that is strong does not wither,
i iphant taug ú-pel
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
nûr tynd ú-raitha na heleg/los/loss

Should the nûr be nuir instead, because "roots" is plural?
"Tynd" is the result of my attempt to make "thond" plural.
Is "raitha" the correct word? If yes, how do I make the past tense?

Help is appreciated.
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 19, 2015 03:53
My version of the first four lines is...

Côlath ú-thilia
ú randirath mistar
i vrûn i velt ú-beliatha
thynd nuir ú-raithar adh i niss

i vrûn i velt ú-beliatha = the old that is strong will not wither
thynd nuir ú-raithar adh i niss = deep roots they are not reached by the frost

Alternately for the fourth line you could have:
thynd nuir ú-raithanner adh i niss = deep roots have not been reached by the frost
(Past tense instead of present).

[Edited on 02/19/2015 by Galadivren]
Alexanda
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on: February 22, 2015 08:16
Thanks! Here are the last four lines.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
O in lith naur na (I'm not sure if this word should be joined to the next) narthant
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Calad/Galad o in dae tuia/eria
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
Cîr na hathol/hathel thanc
The crownless again shall be king.
I ú-rî ad na ara/aran

I hope it's not too much trouble, but would it be okay for you to explain a bit on any mistakes I made here? As for words that have more than one possible translations, why should I use one version/word and not the other? Thanks so much!
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 22, 2015 01:19
Of course! Also finally found the word doc that has my translation of this poem in (always helps I find). Bear in mind that you will see other people's versions of this - for instance I don't match rhymes from English to Sindarin (generally) but I have seen a version of this where someone did. Okey dokey... One line at a time:

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
O in lith naur na (I'm not sure if this word should be joined to the next) narthant

O(d) + i = Uin
and we have a verb for 'to awake' = echuia-

Uin lith naur echuiatha = From the ashes a fire will awaken

A light from the shadows shall spring;
Calad/Galad o in dae tuia/eria


Calad = Light
Galad = Radiance
again, o + i = uin
There are several different words for shadow, I personally used 'morchant' = a shadow cast by a shape, and out of your two options of tuia- and eria- I originally used tuia-. Tuiatha = It will spring.

Calad uin merchaint tuiatha = A light from the shadows will spring

Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
Cîr na hathol/hathel thanc


Slight advantage on this line if you know the reconstructed verb Rag- = to break!
No = be (attested - "Caro den i innas lin" - be done thy will)
Hathol is generally an axe blade or a broadsword blade, I chose Crist as it just has connotations of being a sword blade.

My version of this line was:
Cîr no crist i rógiel = Renewed be blade that was broken

The crownless again shall be king.
I ú-rî ad na ara/aran

This one's a fairly tricky line, in my opinion.
For the suffix -less in Sindarin we use Pen, as in the Sindarin name of Tom Bombadil, Iarwain Ben-Adar = Oldest and Fatherless.


My version:
i ben-rî natha aran adui = The crownless will be king again

Adui = Again. This is an attested word, and it's an adverb. The alternative here is to use the prefix Ad- and attach it to the verb. This would give you Ad-natha aran. As I write this I think I actually prefer that (I wrote the above a couple of years ago), so this would give you:

i ben-rî ad-natha aran = The crownless will again be king
Alexanda
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on: February 24, 2015 07:40
Thanks so much for helping with the poem. I hope you won't mind helping me with another translation. I'm doing it as a friend's birthday note. Here it is:

Happy birthday, [person's name]! You are special to us and everything would be different without you! May God richly bless you in your 16th year!

I hope it's possible to translate that. By the way, how are the punctuation marks in sindarin like?
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 24, 2015 12:54
I'll give it a go, but it won't be word for word. I've also come up with several different ideas over the years of how to reword 'happy birthday', so pick which one of the following you prefer!

No gellweg i oronnad gîn = Be joyful your birthday
Oronnad gell (angin) = Birthday of joy (to you)
Oronnad 'ellweg (angin) = Joyful birthday (to you)

Oronnad is reconstructed, literally 'begetting day' as if you rememember, Elves celebrate the conception not the birth. (But because their pregnancies were a year long it was the same day anyway).

Ci mîr ammen = You are a treasure to us (mîr = jewel, treasure, precious item)

Nai Eru [alio/elio] gin mi i în hen = May God bless you in this year

Tolkien never gave us the words for the numbers from 13-19, so I had to reword it. The difference between the two words in brackets is that they're both reconstructed verbs for 'to bless', alia- and elia-, the first is mine, and the latter is David Salo's, so I thought I'd give it to you as well.

The sentence in the middle is missing because I need to have a think how to reword that.
Alexanda
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on: February 25, 2015 03:16
I've attempted to translate it, and this is what I could get. I added in your translation for "You are a treasure to us."

Meren oronnad, [person's name]! Ci mîr ammen! Eru elio gin an-ovor sen idhrinn!

And should the beginning be "Meren oronnad" or "Oronnad meren"?
I couldn't find the word "gin". Is it a mutation?

I thought "nai" is a quenya word...

[Edited on 02/25/2015 by Alexanda]
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 25, 2015 07:29
Oronnad veren = Festive, joyous birthday

Gin is the mutated form of Cin, the object pronoun 'you'.

Nai is Quenya, you're quite right, but it wouldn't change its form in Sindarin with the meaning 'be it that'. A few words do that in both directions.
Alexanda
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on: February 25, 2015 08:13
Is there a way to translate the middle section of the message?
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 26, 2015 02:35
What are you trying to say with the 'an-ovor sen idhrinn!' by the way? If it's 'this year' the pronoun needs to surround it and become i idhrinn hen.

and everything would be different without you

What about:

a naid bain eichianner (aen) pe ci ú hí = and all things will (would) change if you are not here

Aen seems to work as a conditional particle, changing it from 'will change' to 'would change', but we're not 100% sure that that's what it does.
Alexanda
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on: February 26, 2015 03:04
I'm not sure why there's an i in your phrase, since there's no "the." I'm trying to say, "May God bless you abundantly this year." How should the translation be like?

What does naid mean? Couldn't find it in the dictionary. I thought bain means fair, but that's not in the message. Is there another meaning? If I wanted to use "would change", should it be "eichianner aen"?

I looked up "aen" in the dictionary, and it seems that it could be an equivalent to the Quenya "nai. But I couldn't find "nai." Would it be grammatically correct to use the former in the same way as the latter is used? Thanks so much for your help!

[Edited on 02/26/2015 by Alexanda]
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 26, 2015 10:13
Possessive pronouns in Sindarin take the form i [item] (pronoun). This is attested, and comes from the Hollin Gate inscription:

Celebrimbor o Eregion teithant i thiw hin = Celebrimbor of Eregion drew these signs.

In English yes, it looks like 'the signs these' as a literal translation, but many languages look odd if we literally translate them! Hence you need i idhrinn hen = this year (the year this, if looked at literally).

You won't find the current meaning of aen in a dictionary (unless you're using mine) as it was finally confirmed in Issue 50 of Vinyar Tengwar (a linguistic journal for Tolkien's languages) which was released only last year. I don't think even elfdict has updated this entry yet.


Naid is the plural of Nad = Thing, something.
Bain is the plural of pan = all, in totality. You know it's not bain = beautiful as it isn't mutated to vain.

[Edited on 02/26/2015 by Galadivren]
Galadivren
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on: February 26, 2015 02:13
Sorry, missed this earlier, was typing very quickly while cooking!

I'm trying to say, "May God bless you abundantly this year." How should the translation be like?


Hmm, right, okey dokey.

Nai Eru den [alio/elio] ovor i [idhrinn/în] hen = May god bless you abundant(ly) this year.

Using "Noro lim" as the example, where it literally means "Run swift", but in English would be "Run swiftly" - Sindarin doesn't have separate affixes like we do, so although it looks like "Bless abundant" you would read it as "Bless abundantly".
Alexanda
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on: February 26, 2015 08:52
Thanks so much for your help! Just to summarize everything, here's the final translation that I gathered.

Joyous birthday, [person's name]! You are a treasure to us and everything would be different without you! May God bless you abundantly this year!

Oronnad veren, [person's name]! Ci mîr ammen! A naid bain eichianner aen pe ci ú hí! Nai Eru den elio ovor i idhrinn hen!

[Edited on 02/27/2015 by Alexanda]
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 27, 2015 03:06
Yip, looks good! You're most welcome, and I'm sorry I didn't explain everything fully straightaway.
Alexanda
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on: February 27, 2015 08:40
No worries! I'm thankful that you even tried to help while cooking, haha. I'm glad that I learned lots of things!
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
puffinpup
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on: February 28, 2015 01:41
Hi,
Hope I'm asking this in the right place.....

I was just wondering whether someone could check a translation for me?

I want to be able to say "I see dragon's fire" (or fire of a dragon, as long as it's made clear that the fire is the dragon's).

So far I have this-
Im cen lhûg en-naur

The part I'm most unsure about is the placement and use of 'en' to denote possession. I'm not sure whether there needs to be a - between en and naur when writing it though.

I plan on transcribing it into Beleriand mode, but I want to make sure I've got my translation correct first. (It's going on a tattoo so it's kind of important I get it right, ha ha).

Also, if anyone's able to tell me if any of the words I'm using aren't canon, that would be nice! (I think I've sourced them properly but my brain is so foggy from piecing it all together, I can't be sure).
Galadivren
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on: February 28, 2015 02:15
Cenin naur amlug = I see dragon fire

Cen- = the verb 'to see', Cenin = First person present tense, 'I see'.
naur = fire
amlug = dragon

Put in this order, it's 'fire of dragon, dragon's fire' - as in Ennyn Durin = Doors of Durin/Durin's doors.
Alexanda
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on: February 28, 2015 05:23
I'm so sorry, but I still don't understand some things. How did you get eichianner, and what does pe mean? So sorry about this. I really thought I had gotten everything.
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Galadivren
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on: February 28, 2015 09:08
Pe = If. It's a reconstruction from Quenya.

Eichia- = 'to change'. Eichianner = They will change. Future tense, 3rd person plural.
puffinpup
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on: March 01, 2015 01:21
Galadivren said:Cenin naur amlug = I see dragon fire

Cen- = the verb 'to see', Cenin = First person present tense, 'I see'.
naur = fire
amlug = dragon

Put in this order, it's 'fire of dragon, dragon's fire' - as in Ennyn Durin = Doors of Durin/Durin's doors.



Thank you for responding! I have a few questions about the corrections though, I want to understand where I went wrong.

I chose lhûg over amlug because I thought amlug was the Noldoran for dragon. Is there a reason why lhûg isn't appropriate?

As to the 'dragon's fire', are you saying there doesn't need to be something to show that it's fire 'owned' by the dragon?

I used this page when I was trying to work out how to show the first was the dragon's. But maybe I was using the wrong rule?

http://www.councilofelrond.com/reading/04-articles-gen/

I just don't want to have something reading "I see fire dragon"..... I mean, I like anime as much as the next geek, but it's really not the point of this tattoo (Maybe another one, but not this one, ha ha).

Thanks so much again. This stuff is way out of my comfort zone.
Galadivren
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on: March 01, 2015 02:15
I'll do my best to explain!

lhûg = snake, serpent. It doesn't mean dragon.

The lesson you've linked there says exactly what I did -

. Proper Nouns in a Genitival relationship

When the last word of a genitival phrase is a proper noun, word order usually expresses this relationship.

Examples of: [any noun] + [proper noun]
aran Moria > aran “lord” + Moria = “lord (of) Moria”
ennyn Durin > ennyn “doors” + Durin = “doors (of) Durin”

Using the same example at the end there that I gave you - thus as I said above, naur Amlug = fire of dragon, dragon's fire.

I completely understand that you want it to be absolutely correct! I have done a lot of tattoo translations for people over the years, and I wouldn't find it acceptable for any of them to have something meaningless.
puffinpup
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on: March 01, 2015 02:45
Galadivren said:I'll do my best to explain!

lhûg = snake, serpent. It doesn't mean dragon.

The lesson you've linked there says exactly what I did -

. Proper Nouns in a Genitival relationship

When the last word of a genitival phrase is a proper noun, word order usually expresses this relationship.

Examples of: [any noun] + [proper noun]
aran Moria > aran “lord” + Moria = “lord (of) Moria”
ennyn Durin > ennyn “doors” + Durin = “doors (of) Durin”

Using the same example at the end there that I gave you - thus as I said above, naur Amlug = fire of dragon, dragon's fire.

I completely understand that you want it to be absolutely correct! I have done a lot of tattoo translations for people over the years, and I wouldn't find it acceptable for any of them to have something meaningless.


Ahah! I see now about what you mean about dragon/snake. Phew, am I glad I came on here before going off with my own translation!

Though, maybe I didn't make it clear as far as the genitival phrase goes....Wouldn't dragon just be a common noun in this instance? Rather than a Proper Noun. It's not a title, as much as it's the name of a thing.


So rather than me saying "It's Frodo's ring" I'm trying to say "It's a hobbit's ring".

And thank you so much, again.

Galadivren
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on: March 01, 2015 03:11
Ah, right, yes, that lesson does just mention it for 'Proper Nouns'. I don't believe that's true, it would work similarly for any noun + noun, but if you'd prefer, you could have:

Cenin naur en-amlug = I see fire of the dragon
or
Cenin naur uin amlug = I see fire from the dragon

but now you're referring to a specific dragon and it starts to lose the meaning from the original.

[Edited on 03/01/2015 by Galadivren]
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