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Galadivren said:Ah, right, yes, that lesson does just mention it for 'Proper Nouns'. I don't believe that's true, it would work similarly for any noun + noun, but if you'd prefer, you could have:

Cenin naur en-amlug = I see fire of the dragon
or
Cenin naur uin amlug = I see fire from the dragon

but now you're referring to a specific dragon and it starts to lose the meaning from the original.

[Edited on 03/01/2015 by Galadivren]

Varyalener said:Hello, I have made a Sindarin translation of Galadriel's Farewell to Lórien and I would like someone to check it. Thanks in advance!

Above is the original, english version:


Farewell to Lórien

O Lórien! The Winter comes, the bare and leafless Day;
The leaves are falling in the stream, the River flows away.
O Lórien! Too long I have dwelt upon this Hither Shore
And in a fading crown have twined the golden Elanor.


And this is my translation to Sindarin:


Novaer na Lórien

A Lórien! Rhîw tôl, i Aur baran a pen-lass;
I lais dannar nan hîr, i Dhuin rîb ed.
A Lórien! Anann dae dorthannon ne Nef Rast hen
A na rî beleth gonathrant i Elanor vallen.

[Edited on 03/21/2015 by Varyalener]

Galadivren said:Pretty solid attempt! Just a few little comments to make, I'll do it line by line.

I lais -> In laiss
nan hîr -> min hîr
rîb ed -> edhrîb or ethiria- = to flow away, ethiria = it flows away
Anann dae dorthannon ne Nef Rast hen -> Anann dorthannen am i Nefrast hen
A na -> A vi (mi = in, min = in the)

Varyalener said:

Thanks again for helping me!
But I have a handful of questions regarding the following (I guess you'll have some work, so take it easy, I wait as much as needed, no matter how long it takes):

1) nan hîr -> min hîr

I couldn't find min glossed "in the" in any wordlists I looked in (DragonFlame, Parf Edhellen and CoE's dictionary). All of them give min as numeral "one" and preposition "between the" (and mín – with long í – as pronoun "us" and possessive "our" ). And I couldn't find mi "in" at all. Anyway, when translating, I thought using a sindarin word for "in" or "in the" would mean that the leaves were falling in (inside, into) the river's water. When Galadriel said "the leaves are falling in the stream", I think she actually meant they were falling "at the stream", "on the stream" (on its surface) or maybe "towards the stream" (and consequently they fell on the water's surface), but not "inside" it. So I decided to use nan "to the", for it denotes direction (maybe also "at the", as a locative word? – since it contains na "to, towards, at, of, with, by" ). But erin "on the" may be a better choice. And of course, my understanding of what Galadriel meant may be mistaken, especially because english is not my mother-language. Or perhaps, when you were making your reply, you just didn't think about these points I mentioned. I don't know.

2) rîb ed -> edhrîb or ethiria

Should not be edhrib (with short i)?
And how does ed suffixed to rîb and siria results in edhrîb (reads edhrib?) and ethiria? Wouldn't it trigger stop mutation, resulting in edrîb (edrib?) and essiria, instead?

3) Anann dae dorthannon ne Nef Rast hen -> Anann dorthannen am i Nefrast hen

Since I'm supposed to translate "for too long" into sindarin (as line 3 reads "O Lórien! Too long I have dwelt..." ), first i thought of ananann as an adverb compounded by the adjective and "long", the intensive prefix an- (thus, anann meaning "too long" ) and the preposition an "to, for,... (etc.)" prefixed to all. However (and aside from ananann being somewhat odd for me), an adjective anann meaning "too long" could conflict with the attested adverb anann "(for) long". Though I don't believe this to be a problem (there are words in sindarin with different meanings but identical forms, such as min "one" and min "between the" ), I thought it could be better to find another way of saying "too long", so I came with anann dae; with the attested anann "(for) long" and dae supposed to mean something like "too, very, exceedingly", though this word is not attested (only daer "great" is attested) – I found dae glossed "too" at Parf Edhellen, where it is said to be imported from Parviphith. However, I'm not sure if I should really use dae.

I didn't get what are both am and the following i before Nefrast.

Why Nefrast rather than Nevrast (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nevrast)?

Also concerning Nefrast, when Galadriel said "this Hither Shore", she indeed referred to the land called Nefrast (or should it actually read Nevrast, as found in Tolkien Gateway?). But since she used "Hither Shore" rather than the name by which the land is known, I thought I would better do the same in the sindarin traslation and use separate words to refer to the land: Nef Rast hen "this Hither Shore". Also, it appears to me that a proper name like Nefrast does not go well together with a demonstrative (in this case,hen) – something like "this Nefrast" is quite weird to me. Should I really not use Nef Rast for "Hither Shore", but Nefrast (maybe Nevrast?) instead?

tiger667 said:Thank you for 'na lui' I was trying to think of others ways of saying sometimes that I could get to work.

For a name how about "The Deepest Shadow". would it be iraunûrwath or raunûrwath, or some better combination of words I didn't think of (my first version of this was iAnnûriwath- lit. the exceedingly deep of shadows, because that is how Pedin Edhellen explains how to do superlatives, rau-/ro- was just another way to heighten, ie. beyond great - roveleg)

On your help for Varyalener I am curious about Nefrast and Nevrast. I thought f only sounded like v when it was at the end of a word. Wouldn't a word ending with f have it changed to the v when something is added to the end of it?