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Ilandir
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Post Gilthrang?
on: October 30, 2011 09:45
So I was looking up some articles and came upon the Dagor Dagorath. On the site to Lotr Wikia I found an article on this Last Battle and with it, the following passage:

"On an excerpt from a letter of Tolkien's, a new Ainu shall enter Arda upon the side of Melkor, and will aid him in battle. This Ainu is said to have a special relationship with Mandos, although it is not known whether or not he is a Vala or Maia. He is said to be held equal with Sauron, and his name was given by Christopher Tolkien as Gilthrang."

I found a few other references to this Ainu but almost nothing new. Does anyone know whether this is true or not? And whether there is a reference to this in any of the books? I tried searching the HoME Series and Unfinished tales, but couldn't find anything ...

Help pls!
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Gilthrang?
on: November 01, 2011 10:25
I've checked all my sources in Quenya and Sindarin and can find no name or word in which the TH dipthong is followed by an R ... except ...

Thranduil, who is probably using a name given him by the Sylvan elves he leads. It would be interesting to know his original one.

Other than that I can only find references to Gilthrang in dubious sources with no intelligable provenance. Best ignored I think.
Elthir
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Post RE: Gilthrang?
on: November 02, 2011 12:59
For other examples we have Mithrandir, athrabeth, Nargothrond, Mithrim, Mithril, Nan-tathren, Lothron, Mithrellas...

In any case I don't recall the name Gilthrang.
Dolwen
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Post RE: Gilthrang?
on: November 02, 2011 01:52
I can't find the name in any of my sources either (UT, HoMe, Letters etc.) and I notice that all of the google searches that mention the name quote it word for word as it is in the wiki, my guess is that someone invented it and others have passed it around since not one bothers to state exactly where C. Tolkien was suppose to have said this.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Gilthrang?
on: November 02, 2011 10:30
Hmm thanks everyone. Well, I suspected that this might be the case as I also looked in all the books for a reference too. A pity though, as it's a really interesting idea ...
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Gilthrang?
on: November 03, 2011 10:52
Gosh! Thanks Elthir! Not sure though, but I think your examples are composites where the TH belongs to a different part than the R. With Gilthrang it would only work if there's a root 'GILTH'. Maybe there is. And Thranduil would need for the TH to be the final sound of a lost prefix. Anybody got any ideas?
Elthir
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Post RE: Gilthrang?
on: November 04, 2011 06:05
Gosh! Thanks Elthir! Not sure though, but I think your examples are composites where the TH belongs to a different part than the R.


Yes above I was generally confirming that the cluster -thr- is found in Sindarin -- but also I think this can arise from other means than compounding wholesale words or adding suffixes, like with syncope for example.

With Gilthrang it would only work if there's a root 'GILTH'. Maybe there is. And Thranduil would need for the TH to be the final sound of a lost prefix. Anybody got any ideas?


Actually my guess is that Thranduil (as a name) is a result of syncope, as in PE17 we have 'THAR vigour (only in Sindarin)?' and tharan 'vigorous' and tharanduil 'vigorous spring'


In any case, linguistic wonderings about Gilthrang aside, unless it's attested (along with the explanation) -- or let's say rather, until I see an actual source, I'm not buying.
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