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tarcolan
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Post Was Grey Havens fading?
on: November 01, 2011 10:28
Had the Grey Havens been fading since Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf?
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Elthir
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Post RE: Was Grey Havens fading?
on: November 02, 2011 01:48
Good question. There is a quote in Unfinished Tales, the Istari, that implies Ciryatan did not use Narya:

'It was entrusted to me only to keep secret, and here upon the West-shores it is idle (...) but I deem that in days ere long to come it should be in nobler hands than mine, that may wield it for the kindling of all hearts to courage.'


However, once again, did Tolkien remember that in Appendix B he had already published:

The Third Age

'These were the fading years of the Eldar. For long they were at peace, wielding the Three Rings while Sauron slept and the One Ring was lost;...' (...) when maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen upon Greenwood the Great, the Istari...'


In my opinion this at least implies that Narya is included, and seemingly employed before the Istari arrived. And if Tolkien had forgotten, and in theory remembered later (or checked his own sources later), what influence would this much have had on whether or not he could possibly reveal that Narya had been idle in Cirdan's hands?


Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age relates similarly that: 'Yet after the Fall of Sauron their power was ever at work, and where they abode there mirth also dwelt and all things were unstained by the griefs of time.'

However this passage continues directly with (here edited for brevity)...

'Therefore ere the Third Age was ended the Elves perceived that the Ring of Sapphire was with Elrond (...) whereas the Rings of Adamant was in the land of Lorien (...) But the Red Ring remained hidden until the end, and none save Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan knew to whom it had been committed.'

Hmm.
tarcolan
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Post RE: Was Grey Havens fading?
on: November 02, 2011 11:11
I think you're right. According to that quote in UT he may have used it previously but it was idle when Gandalf came. I think Círdan's heart lay with the sea and so he wasn't so interested in using it, and it seems to be more of a reinforcer of innate power. Mithlond was a lot further from trouble so there wasn't the need. BTW where did the name Ciryatan come from? I can't find it anywhere.
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Elthir
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Post RE: Was Grey Havens fading?
on: November 02, 2011 03:33
(...) BTW where did the name Ciryatan come from? I can't find it anywhere.


There's a Tar-Ciryatan among the Númenórean kings, and I assume (!) the part I stole is similar in meaning to Círdan 'Shipwright, Ship-builder''...

... or something close I hope
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