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calenmarwen
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 08, 2013 06:02
Quote from starofdunedain on January 2, 2013, 20:24
The only complaint I have so far is that they didn't include the 'Fifteen Birds' song towards the end. I was really looking forward to that song. Maybe in the extended edition?


Somehow I can't see Azog bursting into song at that point in the film. Still, you never know! 8O
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Cillendor
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 09, 2013 01:15
Could the key scene be in the extended scenes? It'd make more sense to have Gandalf explain it when he gives the key to Thorin. Also, if they wanted to get rid of the inconsistency of having Gandalf visit Dol Guldur before Radagast discover's that it's evil, they could just have Thrain be kept somewhere else. From the way the movie explained it, it sounded as if he went missing during the battle of Moria. That's pretty far from Dol Guldur.
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 09, 2013 08:50
they could just have Thrain be kept somewhere else.

That would indeed solve the problem, however, it is clearly stated in the teaser that Gandalf fights Thrain in Dol Guldur. Unless they work this around in some way, some poor VFX editor will have a hard time trying to replace the Dol Guldur background with a Moria one - unless they scrap the scene entirely and re-film it during next May's pickups.
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Nan
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 10, 2013 04:52
I agree that the dwarves wern't dwarvish enough. And how did Thorin end up so young??? Where is the long white beard? Where is the blue hood with the silver tassel? Honestly, I prefer the Bakshi version of the dwarves. Thorin Oakenshield‏ is one of my favorite Tolkien Characters and I am really disappointed with what has been done to him in this movie.
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Aragorn16Estel
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 13, 2013 10:01
Personally I think Thorin in the film is perfect, he looks very Kingly and Noble. he fits the role well, has a fantastic voice and does wear blue and silver ish outfits so that sort of fits with the colour. The Bakshi Dwarves just look like Garden Knomes.

For instance:

This:

http://worldofwonder.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/FILI-AND-KILI.jpg

Or This:

http://watchplayread.com/files/2011/07/fili-kili_animated.jpg

I understand that the Bakshi dwarves fit more with the description in the book but they still look like a joke.

Just my opinion...




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Lindarielwen
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 13, 2013 11:39
Well, I must agree with you, Aragorn16Estel. I find no fault with Peter Jackson's dwarves. The 1977 cartoon version of The Hobbit is not the way I see them in my mind. Jackson's Hobbit is not a cartoon. I,also, do not want to see a bunch of garden gnomes riding on horses and fighting battles. My humble opinion, as well.
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Leoflic_Nightleaf
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 13, 2013 11:52
Fili and Kili were perfect. Some of the others were pretty good. Thorin though? Why in the world did they make him so young? And he isn't so high and mighty and haughty like he was supposed to be. The one scene where we got to see some of what he was supposed to be, was when Bilbo has the encounter with Gollum and doesn't show up for a bit, and Thorin is like, 'Oh, he must have gone home, he just couldn't take it anymore.' Yeah, anyway, i think they just ruined him.
starofdunedain
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 14, 2013 03:45
I thought he was pretty 'high and mighty' and majestic enough. I think his arrogance in the book shows on screen.
Bartimaeus
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 14, 2013 12:37
Thorin wasn't like I imagined him... He seemed a bit, well, petulant. In the book, he seemed pleasanter somehow.

And yes, there were way too many battles and villains.
calenmarwen
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 14, 2013 05:22
There's a point actually. I was thinking that Fili and Kili might be too young looking and un-dwarf-like, but upon watching the film, I didn't notice either of those things.
And yes, I was perfectly happy with Thorin. He did have a lot of starring away into the camera moments, but I didn't really mind
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Leoflic_Nightleaf
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 15, 2013 06:29
Though, I guess they did pick a good actor for Thorin if they were aiming to pick up some more Hobbit/LotR fan-girls
Ironfoot
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 15, 2013 01:09
Regarding the beards (me, being the preemptive expert on all things Dwarvish jkjk), if you look the reason why they aren't all big and bushy is because most of them are braided...which makes sense considering their noble lineage. Braiding (especially during the middle-ages) was a sign of nobility and prestige.

I think they did an exceptionally great job on the Dwarves, definitely not what I expected. But think about it: all of them are unique in their own sort of way. It would have been easy for Jackson to do this:
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 15, 2013 01:15
On that note, I particularly liked Thror's beard with the chevron-shaped ornamentation and the way it echoes the design in his robes as seen here: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Thr%C3%B3r
Very magisterial.
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Ironfoot
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 15, 2013 01:22
Oh wow I love that picture! I think I might use that as my new avatar I've been looking for...
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Dawn-maiden
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 15, 2013 03:25
[b] Thorin though? Why in the world did they make him so young? And he isn't so high and mighty and haughty like he was supposed to be. The one scene where we got to see some of what he was supposed to be, was when Bilbo has the encounter with Gollum and doesn't show up for a bit, and Thorin is like, 'Oh, he must have gone home, he just couldn't take it anymore.' Yeah, anyway, i think they just ruined him.


I think Richard Armitage's Thorin is perfect -- he is often rude and haughty and self-important, but unlike the book, the viewer knows the circumstances of his life from the start and sympathises with him, so his haughtiness is easier to forgive.
Also, I think it makes more sense for a character who is going to be shown to be a great warrior at the end to be middle-aged than old, regardless of how Tolkien described him.

I loved the movie, and unlike the LOTR movies where I hated everything that differed from the book, here I think the changes were for the better. There are some small things I didn't like, though:

- Bilbo's book beginning with "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit" when it is shown to be a book written for Frodo. I love that they included the first lines in the film because they are so iconic, but maybe the context could have been different. Bilbo wouldn't have to explain what a hobbit is and what his hobbit-hole was like to another hobbit living with him in the same hole!

- Thranduil refusal to help the dwarves fight Smaug is a scene that leaves a strong emotional impact, but doesn't make sense when you think of it. Why would he come all the way to Erebor with his whole army just to say no? It was almost as if he was taunting the dwarves. "Hey, Thorin, I just wanted to show you I have an army. We are going home now. Sorry about the dragon, must rush, goodbye!"
Lindarielwen
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 15, 2013 08:40
Ironfoot, your picture is most perfect. I think people were expecting the typical "Gimli" type dwarf and could not get their minds to accept that not are dwarves look like that. Just as all people (humans) do not look alike. As far as age goes....Thorin Oakenshield is 195 years old in The Hobbit. I wonder, then, how old is Balin? Again, people age differently. Some who are 30 look 60 and vice versa. There is nothing about The Hobbit I did not like.....well, it could have been longer.
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Hercynian
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 18, 2013 09:29
Tolkien once said he wasn't against the filming of his works, but he didn't want Disney to do it. Well, looks like The Hobbit got the Disney treatment. But maybe, all things considered, that's not so bad. I think Tolkien would not have liked it. But then if he and Jackson had been able to talk, Jackson explaining why he had to do what he did, Tolkien would have probably said, "Oh, okay..." in the end.

I won't list out ALL the logic errors and things I had problems with. I knew the dwarves would be either clowns or a biker gang. They were a bit of both. This would have had Tolkien very hot under the collar. The brief glimpse of Thranduil made me think he belonged on the Twilight set, not TH. The Goblin King as a intellectual cynic? On this point Azog was done better.

Let's face it, we're in a crisis movie-wise. Obviously Jackson is not a trend-bucker, so we got the usual adrenal gland squeezing and flogging that passes for excitement-action these days. I guess my main problem was, again, not really great lines delivered not always so well. Being a member of SPCTrees, I was all but hiding under my seat to see those pines getting knocked down and torched. But my main gripe is (On three. One, two, three) NOT ENOUGH ELVES!!!
starofdunedain
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: January 20, 2013 09:12
You'll get your elves in the next movie Hercynian. They just didn't stay in Rivendale long enough to get a full view. I imagine we'll be seeing a lot of Thranduil's palace and if rumors are true a lot of Tauriel and the elven guard.
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: February 07, 2013 04:53
I think they overdid the escaping from the goblins an the wargs surrounding them at the feet of the trees a bit much. The rock giants were also overdone, as they are merely mentioned in the books.
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: February 09, 2013 04:18
My main complaint with the movie (after watching it and coming home the next day and thinking about it) was that they added some things and changed it around. For instance, where on earth is Galadriel, or Saruman mentioned in the book?! Answer: nowhere. I also didn't like how they added that Thorin vs. Azog scene either, or the fact that they added Azog (or, rather, changed him). But then I got back and read the book, because I hadn't read it for a year, and I found where and why they could've added those scenes.

In the end of the book, after they get through Mirkwood and Gandalf shows up again, he mentions that he had been at a White Council. Now, they still added it early, but at least it was in the book. There also is that great goblin war at the end, and I think Azog's going to lead that. So, in actuality, they are staying pretty close to the book, in comparison to some other movies.
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: February 11, 2013 06:22
I thought the intro was too long
kimmishrooms
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: March 26, 2013 02:16
The azog situation is slightly annoying. He was only mentioned once in the book, so it seems over dramatic. And the CGI. Other than that, excellent movie!
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: March 26, 2013 07:13
kimmishrooms, at the back of the book "The Return of the King", go read Appendix A, part 3, Durin's Folk. That will shed a little light on Azog.
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: March 28, 2013 02:37
Oh, another thing...going away from the Dwarves...Elrond going out to fight...If I remember correctly after the First Battle of the Ring he decided to focus on healing rather than warfare. So how I see that is that he refused to take up arms unless someone entered Rivendell with ill intent and he had to protect his home and those who need to be protected. So the whole scene with him coming in with the warriors, I don't like...it would have been his sons Elladan and Elorhir. (SP?)
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: March 30, 2013 07:49
Interesting point Lastiel_Rusc, I don't recall that, but I also don't know the books as well as you. I actually really liked that, because to me it showed his humility, that he is willing to do the dirty work too in protecting his home.

What I didn't like was that a number of things at the council were very confusing to me. They have made a number of adjustments with the timeline, I thought the "watchful peace" was some hundred years before this. Not too much of a problem though, but Saruman's logic was not logic at all, he doesn't even make sense and where does the morgul blade go after this? They left too many questions unanswered in that scene.
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Lastiel Rusc
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: March 30, 2013 09:13
HuldahMaria I believe it's stated either in the Appendices or in one of the HoMEs, can't remember at the moment. But yes I can agree with the humility, and willingness to do 'dirty work', it's also 'But you could have had the TWINS!' /sigh Oh well, just a little nit pick.

I think Saruman was trying to throw everyone off the track and give them cause to not believe Radagast, therefore discrediting Radagast and have everyone ignore what he had found.

This is how my Mom stated how everyone was acting Galadriel was acting like a woman who knew what could happen, Glandalf was acting as a person who was acting upon the facts he had gathered, Elrond was acting like a learned scholar of which his texts and knowledge was stating that it could not happen even though the proof was in front of him (to me it seemed like he was trying to figure out the 'how it left the barrow'), and Sauraman...he was acting like one who knew more about the situation but wanted to make things work towards his favor.

That's how we saw it. /Shrug
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: March 31, 2013 02:29
I didn't think Elrond's ride was inappropriate. He was defending the borderlands of Rivendell, and appeared slightly alarmed that Orcs were so close by. Introducing his sons would have been a nice touch, but then fans would wonder why they weren't seen in The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

As for the council, I agree with Huldah that the "watchful peace" line seemed out of place. Unless there is some history involved of which I am unaware, then the timing can't be right here. Gollum had it for some 500 years, and this is stated plainly in The Lord of the Rings. And before that, there were several thousand years between the Last Alliance and The Hobbit.

As for Saruman, the main thing I didn't like about him in here was how Gandalf winced and then faked a smile when seeing him. He had no cause for suspicion at that point. He spoke very highly of Saruman when telling Bilbo about the Istari. And years later when he had a much more obvious question about the One Ring, he went straight to Saruman and appeared utterly shocked that the White Wizard would align with Sauron. So Gandalf's reaction in that scene was completely out of place.

But Saruman's line of reasoning itself didn't bother me that much. Sure, he came across as pompous and opinionated, but up until that time there really was no reason to suspect that Sauron would return. If Gandalf had a habit for jumping to conclusions and "meddling", as Saruman suggests, then I can see why he'd display caution or even amused disbelief. Obviously there was more going on than that, but I don't think his reaction was anything that should warrant Gandalf's suspicion. I'm interested to see if he'll be in There and Back Again for the destruction of Dol Guldur, though. For practical purposes, Christopher Lee might not be fit for filming that unless they got it in during the last shoot they had with him, but since they'll likely be deviating from the canon to show Galadriel destroy it now instead of after the War of the Ring, I don't know whether he and the rest of the White Council should be there or not.
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: April 04, 2013 02:01
Quote from Lindarielwen on March 27, 2013, 05:13
kimmishrooms, at the back of the book "The Return of the King", go read Appendix A, part 3, Durin's Folk. That will shed a little light on Azog.


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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: April 17, 2013 04:26
1. Too much Thorin, and he was way too angsty
2. Too much CGI - everything looked computer-y, whereas LOTR was really convincing.
3. Too much drama and big-scale action, a bit too Hollywood to be honest.
4. The troll scene wasn't as good as I imagined it would be, it wasn't as comical.
5. Poor Radagast... There was no need to totally ridicule him

I didn't really like AUJ at all tbh... Keeping my hopes up for the next one though
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Post Re: The Hobbit Film: What Didnt You Like? **Spoilers**
on: May 12, 2013 02:21


"As for Saruman, the main thing I didn't like about him in here was how Gandalf winced and then faked a smile when seeing him. He had no cause for suspicion at that point. "

I know Gandalf seemed very wary of him when really there was nothing to be wary of yet. Maybe it was a inner sense telling him not to trust Saruman fully. BUT If he was slightly evil from the offset then wouldnt Gandalf have known before, as they were both Maiar?
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on: May 12, 2013 02:24
I agree with Galethiel it was too bigged up. It is not end of the world like LotR, the movie seemed to make me think it was vital for the whole of Middle Earth that the dwarves succeed. Maybe should have been a bit more laid back?
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tarcolan
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on: May 12, 2013 04:24
Tolkien wrote about the danger presented by Smaug in Unfinished Tales. The dragon would be a potent weapon under the command of Sauron, so it had to be dealt with.

Edit:
Well if the movie wasn't so long I wouldn't have so much to complain about. Azog?! Azog the Narvi? Sorry, now I've said that...

[Edited on 05/20/2013 by tarcolan]
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on: October 29, 2016 03:51
Hi gwendeth, I agree, too many orcs, the changing of how Bilbo got the dwarves out of Thranduil's stronghold. I liked the real Tolkien Version.
I disagree with PJ, he should have had it without that fight in Thranduil's out-bounds and also orcs in Dale and Laketown was definitely not corpus. And an Elleth falling in love with a dwarf, unheard of. But I guess it catered to the people who are romantics.
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on: April 17, 2018 09:42
I didn't like the first The Hobbit movie much - maybe I was wrong to expect a more serious approach, like the one from LotR. I'll have to rewatch it again and think more about it.
Meanwhile, I really didn't like the romance between an elf and a dwarf. Just how impossible and opposite to regular relations between these two races it is, I cannot comprehend.
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on: April 20, 2018 03:13
The book wasn't meant to be part of the legendarium originally, Ameriel. There were no Hobbits, dragons, trolls, clarinets, matches, talking accessories etc. in Tolkien's world before 'The Hobbit'. He had to work these in after the fact. It was just supposed to be a children's book so the funny stuff is to be expected. It did get Hollywoodised though, which meant lots of action and a daft love story. I was disappointed by the script as well. I've been meaning to edit all three films down to one, it would be more watchable.
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