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PSK
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on: June 03, 2013 04:25
Basically...
PJ doesnt give a donkeys ... about what Tolkien wrote. If he wants to put in a character he will. What can we do...

ps If you havent already gathered Im against this but just a question Tauriel is head of what guard?
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Lindarielwen
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on: June 03, 2013 06:12
Tauriel is a Woodland Elf and her name means Daughter of Mirkwood. She is the head of the Mirkwood Elven Guard and mainly wields a bow and two daggers.

[Edited on 06/04/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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Elthir
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on: June 04, 2013 05:19
Tauriel's name means 'forest daughter', or daughter of the wood.

The Mirkwood part must be by extension... that is, since Mirkwood is the forest in which she lives... although there is no element for mirk- in the name itself. She lived in Taur-e-Ndaedelos, the 'Forest of the Great Fear'.

In the film anyway, of course
Lindarielwen
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on: June 04, 2013 06:19
Glad you cleared that up......However, in an interview Peter Jackson describes her as being "A true Sylvan Elf with her name simply meaning Daughter of Mirkwood." Maybe "simply" is the key word here.

[Edited on 06/04/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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Elthir
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on: June 04, 2013 01:34
Hmm, well I would have used 'simply' for the translation 'Forest-daughter'

I note the same taur 'forest' in Taur-e-Ndaedelos, which needs additional description to describe the forest. Again, since she is the daughter of this particular forest then yes, her name might be said to mean 'daughter of Mirkwood' but I'm not sure why that's the simpler explanation...

... unless he just meant it's simpler to not explain that there's no 'mirk-' in there. I could be wrong, but I don't think taur by itself carries any similar connotations.


[Edited on 06/04/2013 by Elthir]
Lindarielwen
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on: June 04, 2013 06:53
It is simply simpler for people to understand "Mirkwood" rather than "Taur-e-Ndaedelos" ..It is as simple as that...

[Edited on 06/05/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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Elthir
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on: June 05, 2013 05:27
It is simply simpler for people to understand "Mirkwood" rather than "Taur-e-Ndaedelos" ... It is as simple as that


I very much doubt Jackson meant that with respect to the statement you quoted.

There is no reason, in the first place, to translate an Elvish name with the Elvish name of the forest. Jackson is simply translating Tauriel, so taur 'forest' + -iel 'daughter'

Of course Mirkwood is simpler than some Elvish name no one will understand; and how many film fans will even be aware of this Elvish form in any case?


[Edited on 06/05/2013 by Elthir]
tarcolan
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on: June 05, 2013 12:34
Maybe it means 'simplistic'. It is a bit lame isn't it, what are all the other elf-maidens called? Galadhriel perhaps?
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Elthir
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on: June 07, 2013 12:31
Miriel, Tinuviel, Niniel, Aredhel, Amarie, Indis, Idril, Elwing, Nellas, Nienor...

... to name a few from the books anyway.



[Edited on 06/07/2013 by Elthir]
Lindarielwen
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on: June 08, 2013 03:18
I just read that there will be some sort of love story for Tauriel. It is not a huge focus but it is there and it is important and it does drive Tauriel and her story and her actions. Nothing specific but it was said that she grew up with Legolas and that Thranduil has a soft spot for her. She was also described as slightly reckless, totally ruthless and doesn't hesitate to kill.
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Cillendor
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on: June 10, 2013 02:58
Yeah, the love story is a thing. Ugh. But PJ already announced that it would not involve Legolas. The rumor going around for a while is that it will involve Kili or Fili, one of the two. Any sort of Elf-Dwarf romance is absolutely out of the question, so I sincerely hope that that rumor is false.
Lindarielwen
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on: June 10, 2013 05:58
I cannot imaagine that Peter Jackson would have Legolas involved with anyone. Can you hear the screams of thousands of Legolas fans? How about Tauriel with Thranduil? Seems he already likes her.
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NimrodelArwenka
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on: June 12, 2013 02:04
I don't know... if she grew up with Legolas and Thranduil is father of Legolas, wouldn't it be a bit strange to have Tauriel and Thranduil together?
Ou, and Cillendor, that sure is an interesting rumor but I cannot even imagine that! Lol. That would be a revolution at those times...
Belegolas
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on: June 17, 2013 11:57
PJ has said more than once that Tauriel is not Legolas's love interest. I'm hoping the Dwarf romance is just a rumor because, besides being unrealistic, it takes away from the whole concept that half the movie is based on: Elves and Dwarves hate each other. It would also make Gimli's admiration of Galadriel in LotR seem less important, as well as his friendship with Legolas. I'd be okay with her and Thranduil, but I have to agree with NimrodelArwenka that it would be a bit awkward if Thranduil has feelings for a girl who grew up with his son. Honestly, I'd prefer that there is no love story at all, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Lindarielwen
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on: June 18, 2013 05:23
I remember reading months and months ago that Tauriel and Bard (the dark haired Legolas look-alike) might have a little romance. I agree with you, Belegolas, no love story at all would be fine with me.
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Nevaratoiel
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on: June 19, 2013 09:36
Depending on how the 'love story' is executed I don't mind it that much. As long as it's not overrunning other more important parts of the film.

If it's Tauriel and Bard, then I suppose it's all fine, because Bard is interwoven in the story anyway and it would not seem strange why these two are an item. It would also be more likely why Tauriel has a bigger role (as opposed to no role at all since she is not canon). Who knows it might bring a little twist to the story.

As I've said before, I'm not against OCs in the films, and I'm certainly not minding that Peter Jackson made the Hobbit into three films. I think part one was stunning (though some CGI wasn't all that wel rendered at certain points). It brought back the same feeling I had over 10 years ago with the Lord of the Rings. I can't wait until I can see The Desolation of Smaug in the cinema.
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NimrodelArwenka
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on: June 22, 2013 05:11
Here. Both PJ and Aidan Turner (plays Kili) have confirmed that the romance would concern Tauriel and Kili. They have also explained a bit what kind of a romance it is going to be. As far as I understand it, it should be something of an "admiring relationship" only.

http://www.blastr.com/2012/06/aiden_turner_reveals_roma.php

[Edited on 06/22/2013 by NimrodelArwenka]

[Edited on 06/22/2013 by tarcolan]
213415
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on: June 22, 2013 06:11
Sorry this is long, I have a lot to say about this topic.
Before I begin, i would like to say that I am suspending all judgement on Tauriel until I actually see the movie this December.
That aside, I just looked at the link Nimrodel provided above. My first thought was.. Nononononononononononononononononononono!
Gimli's adoration of Galadriel was special because it was unique! Why, why would the screenwriters feel the need to add romance into The Hobbit, a story which never involved romance to begin with! I am not against the addition of Tauriel herself, as long as she is not a Mary-Sue, but this one-sided adoration thing... It was never intended by Tolkien to be part of the story. I remember someone saying that PJ had to add a female into The Hobbit, or he would be accused of discrimination or whatever, but he did add a female character. He added Galadriel, who was never part of The Hobbit. This addition is not upsetting, because the scenes she is shown in in the movie actually occurred. The White Council did meet during the time of The Hobbit, and she was part of it. Tauriel's addition is different. If she was shown as a head of the guard, and only that, then that would be fine. The heads of the guard were never named in the book, so her character could have been there. But the addition of romance never happened, and changes the plot distinctly.
And I am not surprised with this addition at all, and I totally agree with PSK's comment earlier. Peter Jackson has been quoted many times saying something along the lines of, he makes movies how he would want to see them, if he were in the audience. But in my opinion, he should still be aware of the rest of his audience.
One last thing: Aiden Turner, in the link Nimrodel posted above, hinted that the romance would be one-sided. However, Evangelline(spl sorry) Lilly, if I remember correctly, has been quoted saying that Tauriel would have a love story which would drive some of her decisions, which hints that she is actually involved with someone, not that she is aware someone is interested in her. What I am trying to say is... Could we be looking at two romance stories here? If Tauriel is involved with someone and Kili has a crush on her...
I would also like to add that Evangelline, from what I have heard, is an extremely nice person and that she has been quoted saying that she hopes the fans like her. It is not her fault that the writers have decided to add these subplots, therefore any dislike towards the character will be directed, not at Evangelline, but the screenwriters.
Sorry for ranting. Like I said, I am suspending all judgement on Tauriel until I actually see the movie.


[Edited on 06/23/2013 by 213415]
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NimrodelArwenka
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on: June 23, 2013 12:48
Well, now I will be swimming in the waters of speculation and hypothesis only

213415 said:The heads of the guard were never named in the book, so her character could have been there. But the addition of romance never happened, and changes the plot distinctly.
[Edited on 06/23/2013 by 213415]


I think that why PJ is adding a bit of romance for Tauriel is because that's what movies ask for these days... it is necessary to enlighten the atmosphere and having dwarfs being funny is probably not enough. Especially when a new female character brings so much potential into the story. I don't think we have to worry though. PJ knows Middle-Earth and by "know" I don't mean just knowing the storyline. He understands it, and I am pretty sure he is well aware of that Tauriel's love story or whatever it is going to be cannot become a major thing in the whole story / movie. Just like I said, I think it is going to be there to provide an enlightenment to the movie.

213415 said:Aiden Turner, in the link Nimrodel posted above, hinted that the romance would be one-sided. However, Evangelline(spl sorry) Lilly, if I remember correctly, has been quoted saying that Tauriel would have a love story which would drive some of her decisions, which hints that she is actually involved with someone, not that she is aware someone is interested in her. What I am trying to say is... Could we be looking at two romance stories here? If Tauriel is involved with someone and Kili has a crush on her...
[Edited on 06/23/2013 by 213415]


Well, that's new, I didn't even think of someone else for Tauriel besides Kili. I guess we will see that in the movie and no sooner... But in my opinion, what Evangeline actually meant by saying that Tauriel's love story would drive some of her actions is this: Kili admires her, she is aware if it and that makes her change her life-long points of view, which consequently drives her actions...

[Edited on 06/23/2013 by NimrodelArwenka]
Cillendor
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on: June 26, 2013 12:24
213415 said:I would also like to add that Evangelline, from what I have heard, is an extremely nice person and that she has been quoted saying that she hopes the fans like her. It is not her fault that the writers have decided to add these subplots, therefore any dislike towards the character will be directed, not at Evangelline, but the screenwriters.


You know, I wasn't into the movies or books much before LOTR came out in theaters, but I know a TON of fans literally HATED Liv Tyler's portrayal of Arwen. I am mixed on it now, but the hate she personally received was ridiculous, and I think at the time really hurt her.

As apprehensive as I am about Tauriel, I don't want to be involved in that same kind of anger toward Evangeline Lilly. She doesn't deserve it.
Lord_Sauron
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on: June 26, 2013 05:45
You are right Cillendor, fans did have a lot of hatred towards Liv's portrayal of Arwen and I certainly do not approve of hate towards any actor playing a character that they earned to play.
NimrodelArwenka
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on: June 26, 2013 12:07
I agree... it is not right to blame the actor. Concerning Liv's Arwen... what exactly didn't they like? Even though it's everyone's personal taste, for me she was/is the perfect Arwen forever! <3
Cillendor
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on: June 26, 2013 01:41
I think it had to do with her previous roles, or something. They didn't think she fit the part. And the role she played was greatly adapted and expanded a lot, so I think that bothered people. It wasn't her fault, though.
Lindarielwen
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on: June 28, 2013 10:16
Cillendor, Lord_Sauron, this is the first I have heard about any hatred directed towards Liv Tyler for her portrayal of Arwen. I feel as you, NimrodelArwenka, that she was a perfect Arwen.

I think Evangeline Lilly is already expecting to be hated for her role as Tauriel. She will be hated for playing a character that is not in the book and if there is a love interest, no matter with who, she will be hated for that as well.

It is beyond my comprehension to understand why the actor is hated for playing a role...hate the character perhaps, but not the actor.

As for me, Peter Jackson can add or take things out of the story. I am expecting a wonderful journey back to Middle-earth and will be sad when the third movie is over because that will truly be The End.

[Edited on 06/29/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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213415
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on: July 02, 2013 07:16
Like I said above, any dislike of the character should be directed at the screenwriters. Evangelline didn't write the script and I think she will portray the character amazingly. I'm sorry if I offended anyone above, I wasn't trying to hate. I fully agree that, no matter what, the movies will be amazing and I agree with everything that has just been said. I think, in my post, I couldn't convey what I was trying to correctly.. I'm terrible with words. And that isn't just an excuse...
I think Liv Tyler was amazing as Arwen, I could never imagine the character any other way.
Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my earlier post.
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LinweSingollo
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on: July 02, 2013 07:43
Your post was just fine, 213415. I saw no offense in it.
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on: February 05, 2014 06:06
From what I have read and seen, isn't Thranduil Legolas' father?
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Lord_Sauron
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on: February 06, 2014 02:05
Thranduil is Legolas's father.
findemaxam48
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on: February 07, 2014 04:14
Yes, King of Mirkwood, which makes Legolas prince. It seems to me that Thranduil seems to know something about this relationship the rest of us do not know. And I am hoping that we will find out what that is come December 17th, 2014.
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tarcolan
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on: July 28, 2014 06:10
*bumpadillo*
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Gandolorin
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on: July 29, 2014 01:10
An interesting entry in Robert Foster's "Complete Guide to Middle-Earth" for Thranduil: born First Age!!! He could be older than Elrond (far older, if you do not limit FA to the years of the Sun. He might have been among those Elves who woke up by the shores of Cuiviénen, so then we are talking Cirdan's age!!!)
Lives in Lindon beginning of Second Age, but before 1000 SA establishes a kingdom in Greenwood the Great. So if Legolas (and Tauriel) were born in Greenwood, they could both be close to 5400 years old by the time of The Hobbit - far older than Arwen.
Here again, PJ seems to me to "turn Elves into Humans", because at least I got the impression that the Legolas-Tauriel possible thing is recent in Human terms - all we can deal with, in his opinion (and possibly true for pure film Tolkienites without any knowledge of the books - but here again I have the deep suspicion that producers and directors are blind to how primitive their own views of and how massive their arrogance towards the vast majority of those viewing their films are - and with their arrogance they are by definition ignorant morons).
So (for the sake of argument) the growing up together of Legolas and Tauriel took place way over 5000 years ago. And since then, Thranduil has been blind to what has been taking place since about 5000 years?
Or the possible Thranduil-Tauriel thing: He is, if as old as Elrond, about 6500 years old, and she is 5400 years old; uh-huh; so what???
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on: July 30, 2014 04:07
Legolas and Tauriel were childhood buddies? I don't recall that, what have I missed in the movie? Image
I thought the movie guides said Tauriel was very young, about 500.
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Gandolorin
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on: July 30, 2014 11:44
There was a suggestion in a post more that one year ago, meaning before the theater release of DoS, but how far this is still up to date ... dunno.
The date of Legolas's birth does not seem to be recorded anywhere, in contrast to Thranduil's (and I have commented on how diffuse the birth era First Age could be). I just wanted to point out that, assuming Legolas was born in Greenwood (the later Mirkwood), how long ago this could possibly be.
You say the movie guides put Tauriel at 500. But She is the head of the Mirkwood Elven Guard, so very much adult to hold such a position. Assuming Legolas to be of like age, Thranduil would have waited almost 5000 years to have children - or does Legolas have (much) older siblings?
And as to the screams of thousands of Legolas fans if he should have a romantic involvement of any kind, my only comment is Image Image Image Image

[Edited on 07/30/2014 by Gandolorin]
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tarcolan
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on: July 30, 2014 12:17
Can we assume you're not a romantic then, Gando?
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Gandolorin
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on: July 30, 2014 01:20
Hello, I go back to when the approximately same age bracket made it useless to go to a Beatles / Stones / The Who concert if you wanted to hear the music (though I was younger than they were in 1966). The Beatles stopped touring as a result (not that that was a bad decision when you consider their post-touring music!). They would very likely have overpowered (out-shrieked) a Cream concert if they were in the habit of attending them (apparently not, or in much fewer numbers).

That's puppy love, a half to a full decade before the term romantic becomes in any way sensible.

And yes, by many people's views I do not fit well into the romantic niche - but discussions about what is and is not romantic would surely be interesting, IMO.
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