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findemaxam48
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on: August 13, 2014 07:19
I like it, Cenor. I requested your book at the library, rhodil, should be in in four to six weeks.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Mareth_Ravenlock
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on: August 13, 2014 09:33
Ooooh, Cenor...looks awesome! I, too, want to read more!


Leaving for the weekend...see y'all next week!
~Llama Warrior of Nessa~ Sometimes, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carrol
Cenor
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on: August 14, 2014 07:13
I've decided to change it to second or third person. So I've really never understood the big difference between second and third person. Is it just that one is being told as if the author was there and one is as if the author is narrating?

Bye hope you have fun!
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
Mareth_Ravenlock
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on: August 14, 2014 09:16
I'm not supposed to be here...but I can answer your question, Cenor! Third person is from an omniscient point of view (author's view, like you said) and second person is written from a secondary character's point of view.


Thanks, I'm sure we will!

[Edited on 08/14/2014 by Mareth_Ravenlock]
~Llama Warrior of Nessa~ Sometimes, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carrol
Cenor
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on: August 14, 2014 09:50
Okay I was just trying to clarify. So in our house (mostly my mom and I) we have a Favorite Word. Just a word that is new that we start using in our vocabulary. Right now mine is "whilst" and my mom's is "smote". Is there any words you guys like in particular?
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
findemaxam48
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on: August 15, 2014 10:41
Favorites:

Luminous, Vicious, Atrocity, Aristocrat, Candor, Avenging, Abolish, Enmity, Insurgent, Bask, Horrid, Frigid, Envisage, Omnipotent, Poisoned, Blackened, Habitual, Ash, Faded, Route, Ivy,Collosal, Darkness, Clarity, Erudite, Entity, Decimate, Monarch, Carpentry, Void, Invalid, Vine, Tornadic, and Arid.

Hated:

Fudge, Crush (as in romantic crush), Decible, Imbecile, Idiotic,Rhino, Egg, Vegetable, Endless, Regime, Orientate, Geometric, Culionumbus, Breeze, Apple, and Blah. As well as the texting acronyms YOLO, BRB, and TTYL.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
papples
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on: August 15, 2014 12:45
My favorite word is Taquitos! (I know it says that it's spelled wrong, it's because taquitos are a food. Taquitos is fun to say.)
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
Cenor
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on: August 15, 2014 11:59
Note to self do not chat brb to Maxie. Other two you don't know so okay.

Hmmmm I like them...Egg, Apple, and Vegetable are on your hated list though...I like Taquitoes also Papples!

I also like Unbeknownst.
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
Aerena100
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on: August 16, 2014 10:39
I'm a little late on commenting about this, but here are the differences:

Second (Like another person is telling you the story):
You heard her heartbeat quicken across the room before she actually stirred in her cot.
Correction, your cot. You'd given it up so she didn't have to lay unconscious on the floor.

Third (Like someone is recounting the story from no particular perspective):
Saydie jumped down the stairs in twos, only pausing to pick up Genesis. The cat protested for a moment, then melted in her arms and started purring.


I don't know if there are more types of second person, but that's the type I've used.
~ Golden eye, fiery scale, a drake of flame guards your mountain, and spells your doom ~ ~ Heirs of Durin, reclaim your throne. Send the beast to his watery tomb ~
OneSizeFitsAll
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on: August 16, 2014 03:22
You're exactly right, Arena100!
Wait a minute...who is this who randomly appears and tells you that you're right?

Sorry, forgot to introduce myself. I'm Gem, and I'm a writer too...I've been one for practically all of my comparatively short life.
Nice to meet you all.
Image"The Corrupteds are going to wake up and find that they are strong." -Cenor
findemaxam48
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on: August 16, 2014 04:29
Hello, Gem, nice to meet you.

The differences between third person and third person omnicent are sparse, but easy to identify. Thirds person is from an outside narrator, who holds limited knowledge on all of the events and characters in the book. Third omnicent is narrated by someone who knows everything about everything in the book.

Example:

Third: Julia ran as hard as she could to meet Michelle. The distance between New York and Mississipi was great, but she was so desperate to meet her friend, for a reason she herself did not yet know or admit, that she kept running.

Omnicent: Julia ran as fast as she could to meet Michelle. The distance between New York and Mississippi was great, nearly 2000 miles, but she was so desperate to meet her friend for the sole reason of stealing all of her books, that she kept running.

See the dif?

By the way, Michelle dear, I would never steal anything from you. But I would run to MS if I needed to.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Aerena100
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on: August 16, 2014 10:13
Hello, Gem!

And on a side note of Second and First person, you can actually get away with not using the main character's name for quite a while. That snippet example I used for Second person is from a story where the MC has yet to be named
~ Golden eye, fiery scale, a drake of flame guards your mountain, and spells your doom ~ ~ Heirs of Durin, reclaim your throne. Send the beast to his watery tomb ~
Cenor
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on: August 16, 2014 10:20
Welcome Gem! I've heard rumor that you are a fan fic writer.

Okay, I probably write in Third.
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
Mareth_Ravenlock
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on: August 17, 2014 07:03
findemaxam48 said:Hello, Gem, nice to meet you.

The differences between third person and third person omnicent are sparse, but easy to identify. Thirds person is from an outside narrator, who holds limited knowledge on all of the events and characters in the book. Third omnicent is narrated by someone who knows everything about everything in the book.

Example:

Third: Julia ran as hard as she could to meet Michelle. The distance between New York and Mississipi was great, but she was so desperate to meet her friend, for a reason she herself did not yet know or admit, that she kept running.

Omnicent: Julia ran as fast as she could to meet Michelle. The distance between New York and Mississippi was great, nearly 2000 miles, but she was so desperate to meet her friend for the sole reason of stealing all of her books, that she kept running.

See the dif?

By the way, Michelle dear, I would never steal anything from you. But I would run to MS if I needed to.



This made me smile pretty big, Max! I would run to NY to meet you, too, but I think you already know that.


Welcome Gem! Nice to have another writer here!
~Llama Warrior of Nessa~ Sometimes, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carrol
rhodilwen
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on: August 17, 2014 08:05
Nice to see some new faces!

I write in third. I'm not brave enough to try a whole story in first or second. I have one story where I'm practicing first person through the main character's journal entries.
The men of the east may spell the stars/ and times and triumphs mark/ But the men signed with the cross of Christ/ go gaily in the dark- G.K. Chesterton ~Member of the Realm of Ulmo~ http://clairembanschbach.wordpress.com/
findemaxam48
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on: August 18, 2014 01:09
I LOVE first person, and that is what I use, because my lovely main character can say or think all of the sarcastic things that I want to say every day of my life.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Michael Gunter
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on: August 18, 2014 03:55
@rhodi: It really amuses me that 1st person scares you.

@maxie: Really? That's EXACTLY why I like 1st person. If you like that sort of thing, you'd probably love my "Hunter" stories; just ask Rhodi.

@Aerena: very good example of 2nd person writing. It's awkward, isn't it?
Authors are extremophiles; in short, creatures capable of surviving in the harshest of environments.
Cenor
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on: August 18, 2014 03:57
Ha ha Maxie. At our house Sarcasm is our 6th love language . I like to head hop so Third is better for me although I did dip into First as you can see.
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
Michael Gunter
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on: August 18, 2014 04:29
@Cenor: you like to head-hop? So, I assume your writing deals with a character's thoughts a lot?
Authors are extremophiles; in short, creatures capable of surviving in the harshest of environments.
Michael Gunter
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on: August 18, 2014 04:29
@Cenor: you like to head-hop? So, I assume your writing deals with a character's thoughts a lot?
Authors are extremophiles; in short, creatures capable of surviving in the harshest of environments.
OneSizeFitsAll
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on: August 18, 2014 04:44
Personally, I love and use all of the voices (in separate stories, of course). They all have their pros and cons, and I really enjoy playing around with them.

Third person is awesome in a highly complicated story where you need to be every where at once, or in a story involving some sort of mystery or question that must be solved or answered by the end of the story, but cannot be given away to soon.
First person can help the reader to identify with the main character if done well. It also is very helpful in a story where you need the reader to know where the main character's brain, heart, etc. are, every step of the way.
Second person can be awkward, I admit, and a lot of people really hate it, but it too has its uses. Like first person, it can really help the reader relate with the main character. However, unlike first person, where the writer really needs to make the main character a normal person or at least have normal qualities, so as to make the reader like, understand, and sympathise with him/her, in second person, you can make an MC who is entirely different than the reader, and use the story to show the reader things from that person's perspective, usually more easily and more memorably than one of the other voices. (A great example is the short story 'You Need to Go Upstairs' by Rumer Godden.)

Of course, these are just my opinions, based on my observations from my own reading and writing, and of course there are a lot more uses for these voices. Those just happen to be some of my favourite reasons for using them.

And thanks to all those who said hi! Thank you for making me feel so welcome.
Image"The Corrupteds are going to wake up and find that they are strong." -Cenor
Cenor
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on: August 18, 2014 05:02
@ Michael Gunter- I post from different character's views.
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
Michael Gunter
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on: August 19, 2014 09:26
@Cenor: Oh, yes, I assumed that much. XD That IS how head-hopping works, after all. I was just curious to know how "in-depth" you go into each character. Do you literally show all of a character's thoughts as the scene progresses, almost as if you're recording them? Or just enough of the thoughts to point the scene and atmosphere in the right direction, without actually opening a "window" into the character's every emotion and thought?
Authors are extremophiles; in short, creatures capable of surviving in the harshest of environments.
Cenor
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on: August 19, 2014 12:23
That was a silly thing to say. Its what I get for chatting with four people and posting . I would say the latter but I'll give you an example.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Take him to the wheel,” Turner ordered.
The guards dragged Dustan out of the room. Turner turned and kicked Carl, who had been cowering in the corner,
“Get up coward.”
Carl looked up, “I’m the coward? You’re the one who called for a guard when all Cade did was elbow you. You have no right to call me the coward.”
“I have no right?” Turner laughed, “We’ll see about that.”
Turner leveled the gun and a deafening blast filled the Underground tunnels.
That was the last any one ever heard from Carl.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piper was struggling at the wheel when she heard a noise outside her room. She sped up hoping it wasn’t an overseer. The door swung open and several guards dragged Dustan inside and chained him to the wheel. They left evidently satisfied with their work. Dustan’s face was smeared with blood. Both his eyes were black and a jagged cut ran down his cheek. A red weal ran around his neck completing his beleaguered look.
“What happened to you?” she asked as she slowed to a stop.
“What do you think?” Dustan snapped.
His teeth were clenched and the blood running down his face intimidated Piper so she ran to the first aid kit. When she came back Dustan was pushing the wheel with all his might.
“Slow down, Dustan, or you’ll lose more blood.”
“I don’t care.”
Piper grabbed Dustan’s arms as she tried to bring him to a halt but her heels just dug into the ground as she was dragged along, “Dustan, stop!”
Dustan slowed but didn’t come to a halt until Piper kicked the backs of his knees to make him buckle over.
“Hanover, stop it!” Dustan screamed. Piper stepped back away from Dustan wide-eyed; he never called her Hanover… anymore. Dustan was beginning to scare her.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silas stacked another box on the pallet. Sweat poured down his face giving him temptation to stop for a moment and rest. But the burly overseer standing in the corner pushed all such thoughts far from his mind. He was carrying four or five small boxes when rough hands grabbed him from behind. A guard cursed as one of the boxes landed on his foot. That’s what happens when you grab someone from behind like that Silas thought. After recovering from his “injury”, the guard pushed Silas out of the room.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
Aerena100
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on: August 19, 2014 04:42
(very late response, haven't been on for a couple days)

@Michael Gunter: Second isn't too awkward. I actually like writing in it quite a bit, just never had a decent-sized story idea that it would work well in. I do know a couple people who really dislike Second, though, because it's awkward and hard to keep straight.

I've also done some First, too. I personally like all the viewpoints, and have used them more than once.
~ Golden eye, fiery scale, a drake of flame guards your mountain, and spells your doom ~ ~ Heirs of Durin, reclaim your throne. Send the beast to his watery tomb ~
findemaxam48
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on: August 19, 2014 05:36
I know that this is totally off topic, but after having a long, in depth discussion with RodwenAravilui (for those who know her) between the hours of midnight at two AM at a sleepover, why do you think writers get a rep as being crazy or mentally unsound?
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
BelleBayard
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on: August 19, 2014 06:07
Because we are - we live our stories. Cenor, that's not head hopping, that's doing a different person's POV per scene. Head hopping is like this:

"I want you," Jon told Maria, hoping she wouldn't turn him away. Gods but she was beautiful.

"Never in a million years," Maria retorted, squinting at Jon. How could he think she would want her husband's killer?

"Just tell me why! I don't understand," Jon begged her. Why did she continue to hate him? He just didn't get it.

"As if you didn't know," she ground out. What *was* the matter with him? He acted as if there had never been that fateful day she saw him push Mark off the cliff.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, that is not the best example, but it is one. You'll see published author's do it, but it's not recommended if you're just getting into the "business." In order to stay in a single person's head you would write that scene this way:

"I want you," Jon told Maria, hope in he eyes. How could he look at her like that?

"Never in a million years," Maria retorted, squinting at Jon. How could he think she would want her husband's killer?

"Just tell me why! I don't understand," Jon begged her, anguish on his features. She scowled at him.

"As if you didn't know," she ground out. What *was* the matter with him? He acted as if there had never been that fateful day she saw him push Mark off the cliff.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not a ton of changes, but rather than giving Jon's feelings, you're showing what Maria is seeing in his face and eyes and HER thoughts about the interaction.
Cenor
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on: August 19, 2014 09:50
Oh drat. I must have interpreted the book wrong. Oh well I write from several different character's viewpoints, though I still have one main character.
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
findemaxam48
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on: August 20, 2014 08:56
I used to write in that form, Belle, but then found I write best in first person.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
RodwenAravilui5136
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on: August 20, 2014 01:31
Yeah, I'm better with first person. It helps me be in touch with the main characters and it's easier to change settings and events that way... in my opinion.
Oh and by the way, I have decided to make a present for people who are constantly struggling with writers block. I shall make a block of wood that says "Writers" on one side and the Nike symbol with "Just write it" on the other. It will also have holes drilled in the top and double as a pen and pencil holder. Crazy, obsessed me.
"While you're doing fine, there's some people and I, who have a really tough time getting through this life so excuse us while we sing to the sky." -Twenty One Pilots
findemaxam48
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on: August 20, 2014 01:37
SYDNEY, I LOVE YOUR NEW AVI.

That sounds like a cure idea. And you can paint it special colors, haha.

We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
RodwenAravilui5136
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on: August 20, 2014 01:41
THANKS!

And I could personalize it with names and stuff.... NEW CHRISTMAS GIFT IDEA! DAD I NEED YOUR HELP!!! XD
"While you're doing fine, there's some people and I, who have a really tough time getting through this life so excuse us while we sing to the sky." -Twenty One Pilots
Mareth_Ravenlock
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on: August 20, 2014 02:46
Welcome back, Rod!!

That sounds like an awesome idea! I need one of those...maybe it would help me get inspiration.

~Llama Warrior of Nessa~ Sometimes, I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carrol
Cenor
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on: August 20, 2014 03:54
@Maxie for above question

I don't know. Never heard that before.
Image "Every good pirate has an alias" Felix glanced down, looking at contraption around the stump of his wrist. "Hook," he answered. "My name will be Hook."
tarcolan
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on: August 20, 2014 06:21
Less talk of technique and more writing required here, if I may be presumptive. So here are some excercises:

1. Ask someone (preferably a stranger) for a quote, something that someone might say. Don't tell them what it's for. Take the first thing you hear, no cheating, no pickee-choosee. Now make it the last line of a short story and work backwards.

2. Ask various people to donate a small bit of junk to a bag or box. No peeking, don't look at what is put in. Again don't tell them what it's about. Then get someone to pull one thing out blind. Why is it significant? What is the story?

3. Get hold of a map, any map, it doesn't matter. Spread it out on the floor and turn your back on it. Throw a coin over your shoulder. See where it lands and find out everything about that place. Write.

4. Open a biographical dictionary at random and write about whoever you see there.

You get the idea. If a story is worth telling then it can be told from any point of view. Each has its pros and cons. First person engages the reader immediately but is limited to one point of view. Descriptive narrative isn't possible. Omniscient third person is powerful but needs careful handling to avoid devolving into dry documentary.

Above all yearn to communicate. That's what art is. OK I'll butt out now.
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