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Cillendor
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Post Thoughts from Return of the King
on: June 04, 2013 09:48
So I watched The Return of the King the other night, and a few things stood out.

First, Legolas made mention of wars faced by Gimli's people and said that was why they couldn't help. I don't remember when this was said because I was working on something else at the time, but I rewound it to make sure I heard it correctly. He doesn't mention Bard and Dain, but Legolas specifically refers to the conflict they were facing in the northeast. It made me very happy because that seemed like a plot hole in the movies before I caught that. Thoughts?

MUCH more importantly, Jackson shows modern Sauron with a body in his films! "The Eye" has been, in my estimation, a very controversial thing in the movies because it seemed pretty clear that Sauron was in some sort of bodily form during the War of the Ring. But while Jackson apparently flirted with giving him the "Annatar" body (which he abandoned at some point, thankfully), he never showed him in a corporeal form during the "modern" events—or did he?

Watch this clip from The Return of the King, paying attention to the 0:48 mark. Sauron is CLEARLY holding his palantír in that scene as he is talking to Aragorn.

I don't know if anyone has caught this before, but I was ecstatic when I noticed it.
Lindarielwen
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on: June 06, 2013 05:18
Cillendor, the clip is not here. Hope you can post it.
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Lord_Sauron
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on: June 06, 2013 07:54
I think this is the clip that Cillendor means http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU-AKFPf2t4

in it we can see Sauron holding a palantir just seconds before we see Arwen lying down

Sorry it seems that you can not click on the link above, you will have to copy and paste it

[Edited on 06/07/2013 by Lord_Sauron]
Lindarielwen
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on: June 06, 2013 09:47
How many times have any of us watched Return of the King without noticing this? A very conservative estimate for me would be 50 times. Good "eye" Cillendor. Thank you for the link, Lord_Sauron.
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Cillendor
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on: June 06, 2013 11:20
D'OH! I can't believe I left out the clip. I'm dumb.

Anyway that is the scene, Lord_Sauron, but there is an HD clip on YouTube that I'd meant to post. Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjgkBbZE43g

lol yeah 50 sounds a bit on the low side.

[Edited on 06/07/2013 by Cillendor]
Lindarielwen
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on: June 07, 2013 05:00
I think I must have meant 50 times the first year it was released...

Do not call yourself "dumb."
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tarcolan
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on: June 07, 2013 04:20
Regarding your first observation Cillendor I would think that Tolkien regretted not being able to go into more detail about the northern battles when he wrote the book. I think he dealt with it elsewhere but I don't know where. It's good that there is a small mention in the film though.

As to Sauron and the palantir, I'd assumed that vision was Sauron's memory of Narsil cutting his finger off, seeing as how he was being confronted with that blade by Aragorn, so I hadn't looked at it closely. It certainly looks like he's holding a flaming ball of some kind, with all five fingers intact, too. It would be convenient to suggest that it was a vision presented by Sauron but we know he wasn't able to show falsehoods to those of strong enough will, especially not to Aragorn. Perhaps this edit survived from the earlier storyline when Sauron met Aragorn at the gate, and no-one thought to change it.
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Cillendor
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on: June 10, 2013 03:01
Oh yeah, I didn't notice all five fingers. Perhaps he was holding it with his left hand and just mirrored the shot? Regardless, you're probably right. I'm not sure what PJ was thinking with wanting to show Sauron meet Aragorn at the gate, but I'm glad he cut that.
findemaxam48
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on: August 23, 2013 11:26
I never noticed that bit about Sauron holding the palintir! I will now go and rewatch the movie just for that.
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Gildor Inglorion
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on: February 19, 2014 04:05
It's weird. In the book, Sauron is sort of a corporeal figure, and his eye is mentioned, but not as a flaming thing on top of Barad-Dur, but as I said before corporeal and all-seeing. He is sort of a presence, not a physical thing.

I agree with Cillendor; I am really glad Sauron was not at the Black Gate, that would have made me very unhappy with PJ.
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