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tarcolan
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Post Which bits of 'The Hobbit:AUJ' would you edit out?
on: September 17, 2013 07:39
It may be just my opinion but I can't help but think that the Hobbit film would be improved if it were a tad shorter. Which sequences do you think could be edited out without harming the movie?
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Lord_Sauron
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on: September 18, 2013 05:38
The removal of Radagast's fight with the Witchking or possibly the whole scene of Dol Guldur would not have harmed the movie. The council meeting itself could have a bit shorter as well.

can't think of anything else at the moment.
HuldahMaria
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on: September 18, 2013 07:26
The intro to me seemed rather slow and long, but perhaps it is meant to balance the trilogy when they get it done, it just seemed drawn out to me.
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on: September 19, 2013 01:19
I'd have edited out the crudest kind of humour - troll snot/butts, Bofur's jokes about cricket or whatever, burping contest. Pulls me out of Middle-earth every time. I'd have welcomed some cutting in the made-up deep talk in the White Council and some of the action sequences as well.
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starofdunedain
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on: September 19, 2013 08:33
I think some of the scenes with Azog could have been trimmed down.
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on: September 20, 2013 07:03
You all know my answer to this one.

Not...one...single...word...
My destiny is riding again, rolling in the rain, unwinding in the wind. My destiny is fighting again, secretly unwinding..what it was I was supposed to say...to say to you today.
Ilandir
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on: September 20, 2013 09:22
I would have reduced the Stone-Giants sequence (not involving the Company in any of the rock-tumbling and cliff-breaking shots).

The fighting in Goblin-Town (though a wonderful sequence), seemed a bit drawn out. I would have preferred a more trimmed down version and replaced the extra space with more Rivendell shots.

I would probably have also cut out the entire Warg chase sequence - Radagast on his sledge still doesn't seem that realistic when going at such high speeds ...
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tarcolan
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on: September 22, 2013 04:41
Golly, at this rate there won't be much left.
I agree about the whole Dol Guldur scene. And the bit with Azog there, if it was there.
The council meeting isn't a council and so I'd just keep the necessary bits.
The prologue is a bit long but it does set the scene which is what Thorin does in the book.
Yes I'd scrap some of the humourous bits, not really Middle Earth. The whole thing about eating vegetables in Rivendell is stupid.
I find Azog really annoying, he seems to be in the wrong movie, doesn't fit in at all. And he's dead anyway. It should be Bolg.
Yeah the stone giants were playing not fighting, so cut that down too.
Trim the action sequences. Keep King goblin, quite funny some of it.
And have you noticed how quickly it gets dark when they get chased up the trees? I make it 27 seconds. Nothing I can do about that. And I'd like to put the Elrond and Bilbo scene in. And the eagles should talk.
I like the bunnies, silly I know, but the chase is a bit long.
Anything else?
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Lord_Sauron
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on: September 22, 2013 11:51
I think the movie would have worked with out Azog (who was dead anyway) perhaps no orc following Thorin would have been better, Bolg would have been included towards the end of the second or third movie anyway.
findemaxam48
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on: September 26, 2013 05:04
How long it took Bilbo to process the "true-courage-isn;t-knowing-when-to-take-a-life-but-to-spare-one" thing when Bilbo is invisible thanks to rthe ring and he is about to skewer Gollum. A bit lengthy.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
tarcolan
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on: September 26, 2013 05:38
Agreed, and Gollum looks more and more like a chimp who's lost his banana. I don't even like this example of a Gandalfian homily and I'm pretty sure Tolkien would have objected. I can't believe it was written by Walsh and Boyens.
OK that gets shortened.
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findemaxam48
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on: September 27, 2013 01:26
Haha, nice analogy of Gollum, tarc.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Cillendor
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on: October 03, 2013 12:48
I'd cut most of the Stone Giants scene, but that's all.
Nevaratoiel
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on: October 03, 2013 02:56
I would scrap much of the Azog scenes. I thought they were pretty stretched out. And maybe shorten the Gollum scene.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else.
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Gandolorin
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on: December 08, 2013 08:29
Too much of the EE is the Dwarves behaving ridiculously and could have been dumped for almost anything else. PJ seems to have a fixed preconception of them that he is unable to suppress. He just cannot do Dwarves right in a film .
The entire concept of having Azog as the main villain for all three movies just grates horribly . He was killed by Dain Ironfoot at the end of the battle of Azanulbizar, this gaining Dain his early fame as he was quite a youngster by Dwarf standards at the time.
This seems to be a case of the powers-that-be (entirely distinct from those-that-know) have an awfully simplistic mindset as to what must be in a movie, cut’n’paste being the pinnacle of their creativity. (Publishers, too. Much of what came out after the LotR in the Fantasy genre were “Doctor Obvious” copies.)
Snippet s of what they almost did in LotR, gleaned from EE appendices:
Aragorn & Arwen, as main hero (wrong again, there) and heroine, having only a long-distance relationship and no contact in TT? Something that just is not possible to explain to the ptbs with their insect brains. So they almost brought Arwen in to the battle of Helm’s Deep to do her share of Orc-chopping *shudder reaching 7.1 on the Richter scale for earthquakes!*
And in “The Black Gate opens” where the forces of Mordor pour out to surround the small Army of the West, which was only meant to be bait to distract Sauron and give Frodo and Sam a better chance of crossing Mordor? They almost brought Sauron to the Black Gate to get directly involved in the battle. Some lame babbling of having him appear as Annatar, the giver of gift to the Elves of Eregion led by Celebrimbor, which led to the forging of the Rings of Power . Sure. Unfortunately, Sauron lost that incarnation of himself in the downfall of Numenor, and could never again take a fair form after that.
Time for a cold shower.

[Edited on 12/08/2013 by Gandolorin]
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findemaxam48
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on: December 08, 2013 01:59
I think that for many viewers, and I mean the ones who are not die hard Tolkien fans like us, wouldn't have been able to get through the movie without an opposing force against the protagonists. (Thats the only word I could find without typing out all of the Dwarves ) So, that is where Azog comes in. He didn't bother me too much, but it did get annoying when i was really into the movie and all of a sudden Azog is there tossing an Orc to the Wargs. I think my writer self was actually really creeped out by him because the LOTR ROTK Appendixes spoke of him so little. And it was awesome to me that PJ developed Azog so well off of so little.


*Steps off of soapbox*
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Gandolorin
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on: December 09, 2013 01:23
findemaxam48 said:I think that for many viewers, and I mean the ones who are not die hard Tolkien fans like us, wouldn't have been able to get through the movie without an opposing force against the protagonists. (Thats the only word I could find without typing out all of the Dwarves ) So, that is where Azog comes in. He didn't bother me too much, but it did get annoying when i was really into the movie and all of a sudden Azog is there tossing an Orc to the Wargs. I think my writer self was actually really creeped out by him because the LOTR ROTK Appendixes spoke of him so little. And it was awesome to me that PJ developed Azog so well off of so little.


*Steps off of soapbox*


Azog, all of him (too late, I guess).
I have to bring in an author who was in many aspects the opposite of Tolkien: Douglas Adams of „The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.” Besides his books, I have at least three Biographies about him (in total 17 books, including 3 German translations of H2G2 books 1-3). It is mentioned that his American fans BEGGED him to not let American producers dumb down what was being considered for (I assume) TV treatment of the books.
American producers, especially but not limited to those of TV, are so desperate to scrape the bottom 0.1 or even 0.01 percentage point of ratings at the very bottom of the barrel (past the bottom?) that they dumb stuff down to that level, insulting the intelligence of 99.9% (or more) of their viewers along the way.
As I mentioned above, PJ had some really monstrously brain-dead ideas about deviating from the “canon” in the LotR, including bringing Sauron to the battle of “The Black Gate opens”. He finally decided against it despite some moronic ravings of some of the producers.
He either gave way to the morons before the start of TH, or he is brainwashed by the simplistic “canon” of what such a movie needs. TH is much less canonical in detail than is LotR, but who gets killed under the mountain is the Great Goblin, Bolg is his son. And Azog is long dead, respectively never mentioned in TH the book.
(I may have this genealogy wrong, corrections desired)
Soapbox: hmm, yeah, there is a thing called Speaker's Corner in the northeast corner of Hyde Park in London where anyone can utter their personal opinion (umm … natives or others too?). Well, blimey, I’ve just done it!
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Lord_Sauron
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on: December 10, 2013 04:01
Gandolorin Azog was mentioned in the Hobbit very briefly in the Unexpected Party Chapter Gandalf says 'Your grandfather Thrór was killed, you remember, in the mines of Moria by Azog the Goblin,' to which Thorin responds 'Curse his name, yes'.

Azog was long dead, he was killed by Dain in the Battle of Azanulbizar.

[Edited on 12/10/2013 by Lord_Sauron]
tarcolan
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on: December 10, 2013 11:17
Why Azog and not his son Bolg? He's in the story anyway and he would have even more reason to hate Thorin. I can't understand it. Azog was a rush job after they abandoned the first design, so is pretty much a generic human form and not orcish enough for my taste.
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findemaxam48
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on: December 10, 2013 01:42
Agreed to his appearence. Too human.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Gandolorin
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on: December 11, 2013 11:44
Out comes the CPA (not in real life, bur for JRRT’s books).
Azog was killed by a young Dain Ironfoot in the Battle of Azanulbizar in 2799 TA.
TH mentions a “Great Goblin”, killed by Gandalf in 2841 TA under the mountain.
Is he named Bolg in the film?
According to my two Tolkien Encyclopedias, Bolg is the Son of Azog, the one who gets squashed by Beorn in his huge Black bear manifestation.
Go figure.
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Silmelirie
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on: January 23, 2014 10:13
I wouldn't change anything in any of the movies.

Sure, there are several scenes that could be considered unecessary, but I just love being transported to Middle-Earth through the movies. So every bit that gets in the movie is a plus to me.

And it's not as if they don't edit it before release. They spend many weeks deciding what goes in and out, and I respect they finished word. If a scene is there, there is definitely a reason for it.
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Gandolorin
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on: January 23, 2014 12:27
If a scene is in there, it is because THEY feel there is a reason for it. It does not mean that others will consider the reason valid (if you ever get to hear it at all). And just for myself, PJ would have quite a bit of explaining to do; add other digruntled JRRT fans, and PJ would know what he would be going to do for the rest of his life; may be better for him NOT to explain too much.

[Edited on 01/23/2014 by Gandolorin]
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Silmelirie
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on: January 24, 2014 02:35
Yes, I meant they.
But, hey, it's their movie after all. They paid the rights, they can do what they want. It may offend some people, but they can't please everyone. If it was up to me I would've filmed every single scene in the book, but that's not practical.
Have you ever tried getting a long book and adapting it to the big screen? With so many people to please, and so many stuff to include...
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, I'm just saying I respect their effort and I'd be the last one to complain it.
~*You are not wrong, who deem That my days have been a dream; Yet if hope has flown away In a night, or in a day, In a vision, or in none, Is it therefore the less gone? All that we see or seem Is but a dream within a dream.*~
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Gandolorin
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on: January 24, 2014 03:31
Their movie. OK. But if I hear (more likely read) them continuing to babble about their being true to JRRT's spirit I am going to drop-kick them outside of this galaxy for it.
They can do what they want? If they want to be hammered by about 150 million JRRT fans, go ahead.
No, I have not tried getting a long book and adapting it to the big screen.
Nor has any chickenshit coward tried it.
They listen to the most useless brain-dead morons, meaning movie executives.
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Silmelirie
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on: January 24, 2014 04:28
*laugh* Just had a mental image of all those fans stalking PJ and his crew with theit books in hand as weapons.

But, yes, sadly that is true about most movies. The executives part. Both parties has to compromise. That's usually why I don't go to the movies expecting perfection.

I'm just glad someone made the movies. And overall they are really great.
~*You are not wrong, who deem That my days have been a dream; Yet if hope has flown away In a night, or in a day, In a vision, or in none, Is it therefore the less gone? All that we see or seem Is but a dream within a dream.*~
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Hobbits2Isengard
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on: June 30, 2015 06:55
The only thing I would have edited out was the Goblin King singing in the EE; that was just kind of unnecessary and hard to watch. But I probably would have left even the burping contest in - the viewer has to remember that not all dwarves are dark and solemn like Thorin, and I could sort of imagine Gimli initiating a burping contest with someone...
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