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starofdunedain
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Post Third movie title revision
on: April 24, 2014 12:17
Please tell me they aren't seriously renaming the third movie 'The Battle of Five Armies'? The Hobbit isn't about war or battle. It's about Bilbo's journey and the dwarves reclaiming their homeland from Smaug. It's about going 'there' and 'back again', it's about Bilbo's story and how he grows and learns. Not about chopping up orcs.

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tarcolan
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on: April 24, 2014 03:37
I can understand the thinking here, There And Back Again is the additional title of the whole book. None of the relevant chapter titles are suitable (The Clouds Burst?) and as there is definitely a battle I think the new title is reasonable. I'd agree that Bilbo was sidetracked somewhat in DoS, but he only appears in about seven out of twenty pages before and during the battle. I'm wondering how PJ will fill the other two and a half hours.
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Lord_Sauron
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on: April 25, 2014 07:04
The Hobbit The Battle of the Five Armies is the new title.

I think they may have considered the Hobbit Into the Fire

[Edited on 04/25/2014 by Lord_Sauron]
Lindarielwen
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on: April 25, 2014 07:28
The Hobbit: There and Back Again should not have been discarded. I think the title was changed to draw more people to the movie. The Battle of Five Armies sounds more interesting than There and Back Again. Only Ringers know the significance of There and Back Again.
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Gandolorin
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on: April 25, 2014 12:30
As I wrote in a post in the thread " Forum Home » Movies Discussion » Discuss the Movies » DoS DVD Release Date", I decided to take DoS it in the mood "I've read that this guy refers to JRRT occasionally, let's see if I can catch him where he copycats."
Much more relaxing than making a mental list of "that was not in the book!!!" I mean there is plenty of stuff not mentioned in the book where PJ could have filled in blank spaces, but he even gets that wrong (there is no burial place for the Nazgûl mentioned anywhere in the legendarium!!!).
But he also gets so many things wrong that ARE in the book (and don't get me started on Bilbo's going gaga over the Ring at this time - how did he survive having the Ring for 60 years up to the beginning of LotR???).
(Calm down, stick with "catch him where he copycats", Gando!)
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findemaxam48
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on: April 25, 2014 05:51
NO! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Not cool! I can understand the reason it may be changed, but...no! What happened to sticking to the basis of the book and honoring Tolkiens themes? Yes, I loved DoS, but this name change just shoved me off of the edge of Mount Doom. "The Battle of Five Armies" was just a step in the journey, not the journey itself. Of course, we will recieve many up close and epic shots of our heroes during the film. But what worries me is that this title seems to have left Bilbo on the backburner, when the story really and truly did begin with him-"In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit."

It will seem more appealing to non-bookies.


Ringers will wonder why its been changed.


People will go see the film because of the impending violence the title suggests, not because they want to see a good conclusion to a trilogy.


This new title is shifting focus.

No. Just no.


We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Lindarielwen
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on: April 25, 2014 07:51
Is the new title set in stone or is it just something that is being considered? How do we let Peter Jackson know how we feel about the change?

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Lord_Sauron
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on: April 25, 2014 10:23
Gandolorin said:But he also gets so many things wrong that ARE in the book (and don't get me started on Bilbo's going gaga over the Ring at this time - how did he survive having the Ring for 60 years up to the beginning of LotR???).
(Calm down, stick with "catch him where he copycats", Gando!)


Yes how did Bilbo survive with the Ring for 60 years. Could the White Council defeat Sauron so badly enough that it takes Him 60 years to rebuild and thus allowing the Ring to be dormant?.

Lindarielwen I think there is a petition out to have The Hobbit The Battle of Five Armies to be changed back to The Hobbit There and Back again
Lindarielwen
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on: April 25, 2014 10:48
Lord_Sauron, I would gladly sign a petition to keep The Hobbit: There and Back Again as the movie title. Thank you for the information.

So where do I find the petition?
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Gandolorin
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on: April 26, 2014 01:03
Lord_Sauron said:... Could the White Council defeat Sauron so badly enough that it takes Him 60 years to rebuild and thus allowing the Ring to be dormant?.


Uh-uh.
RotK, Appendix B "The Tale of Years", entry for Third Age 2941:
"... The White Council meets (INCLUDING Gandalf!); Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River. Sauron having made his plans ABANDONS Dol Guldur. ...".
In TA 2063 "Gandalf goes to Dol Guldur. Sauron retreats and hides in the East. The Watchful Peace begins."
2063 Gandalf alone (but a Maia and bearer of the Red Ring of fire Narya) suffices to make Sauron leave Dol Guldur and go very far away and hide.
2941 Sauron is attacked by the White Council als a whole, including the two highest Elves left in Middle-Earth, Galadriel and Elrond, with their White Ring of Adamant Nenya of and Blue Ring of Sapphire Vilya (LotR and Unfinished Tales differ on which of these two is the mightier), plus Saruman, originally head of the Istari and also a Maia of Aulë as Sauron had been.
Result? A tactical retreat because:
"2951 Sauron declares himself openly and gathers power in Mordor. He begins the rebuilding of Barad-dûr."
That leaves 50 years until the beginning of FotR - no dormant Ring, in my opinion. PJ's Ring-gaga Bilbo of 2941 would never have survived long enough to hand over The Ring to Frodo.

[Edited on 04/26/2014 by Gandolorin]
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tarcolan
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on: April 26, 2014 02:57
This is a little bit off-topic. I'd suggest discussing these things in the Book forum but it doesn't do to dwell on details like these.
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Nevaratoiel
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on: April 29, 2014 08:49
I can definitely understand the logic of changing the film's title. And I agree. The Battle of the Five Armies isn't just a transitory battle. It's epic and deserves a more prominent place. We knew before that this battle was going to be a big issue in the third film. So I see why the change in title, instead of "There and Back Again". That was the title of the entire Hobbit book. This film is the climax of the story.

I have no issues with the new title. None whatsoever.
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findemaxam48
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on: April 29, 2014 12:52
I think that the old title worked because it will be the last Tolkien film...so in a way the cast and crew have been "there" and are now going "back again". But whatever. It's a new film to me all the same, and I will appritiate it because it's the last one even if i do not agree with the title.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Gandolorin
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on: April 29, 2014 01:25
With my attitude after DoS that PJ is doing his own thing with an occasional nod towards his source (of the overall title and several character names, geography, ...), I'm fine with the title change, too.
At the end of DoS, we are roughly at three quarters of the book by pages. So to fill another theater version of the same length as the first two, something needs to be expanded, I would guess.
PJ has introduced some new story threads compared to the book, which may flow together in the battle - or not. I would also expect compression of some parts of the book story to create more room for action scenes - wherever they take place.
And not only action scenes; we know Fíli and Kíli and Thorin Oakenshield die in the book; looks bad for Tauriel's survival chances. Reminds me of the women who fell in love with Captain Kirk on the original Star Trek TV series. I definitely do not know the series well enough to state with certainty that they ALL died, but a virtual, invisible bulls-eye on their back was always in the back of your mind during such an episode.
We shall see.
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findemaxam48
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on: April 30, 2014 04:36
Hm, now I wonder with the romance thing with Kili will keep either him (defying the book)alive and Tauriel dead, or Kili dead and Tauriel alive, just to make the "love triangle" more complicated. But this is not the thread for such discussions.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Lindarielwen
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on: May 06, 2014 05:26
At this point, I do not care what the movie is called. I just want to see it. Those who have not read The Hobbit now know the ending of the book but anything can change. Who knows how the movie will end? Peter Jackson is always full of surprises. But he cannot stray too far from the end of the book.
My destiny is riding again, rolling in the rain, unwinding in the wind. My destiny is fighting again, secretly unwinding..what it was I was supposed to say...to say to you today.
tarcolan
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on: May 06, 2014 01:00
But he cannot stray too far from the end of the book.

Oh I don't know...
"Thank goodness!" said Bilbo laughing, and handed him the tobacco-jar.
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findemaxam48
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on: May 06, 2014 01:52
Now, I feel like that would be a nice ending...after that line is said with a nice air view of the Shire...
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
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