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Great Angemon
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Post Creating a language for fun
on: May 06, 2014 08:44
Hi. I randomly decided that I wanted to create a conlang. I have no history in phonetics, phonology or linguistics, and so am having a lot of trouble getting the desired results.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Finnr
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on: May 07, 2014 09:30
have you taken a look at David Salo's blog? he created neo-Khuzdul (since there was so little by Tolkien) and some of the linguistics for Jackson's films and goes into how he built everything structurally and where some of the ideas came from. I've never created a language so other than that I cannot be of much help
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Great Angemon
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on: May 07, 2014 09:33
I haven't yet, but I'll give it a look. Thanks.
Great Angemon
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on: May 07, 2014 10:52
I feel it might be beneficial to explain my problem:

What I want is for my conlang to translate into English, but I don't want it to be changing one of my glyphs/letters from my language(once I get to that part) directly into an English letter. I want it to be written in English letters, but read so that it sounds ancient or foreign.
tarcolan
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on: May 12, 2014 06:42
Khet gharnozh de fhruiz! Translates as 'not possible'. English pronunciation is particular to each word, as in bough, cough, rough, dough. Your language would have to have rules explicit to the sound of it. Written forms are a representation of sounds or of concepts. If sounds then there are many more than in standard English, and so cannot be represented in standard English written form. You have to start either with concepts (as in pictographic languages) or sounds. Everything else will inevitably be an approximation. How would you pronounce ╔»☺àô for example?

So first decide on whether the language is sound-based or concept-based, then decide what noises, then what marks represent them, and then how to put that in English. Easy-peasy!
Great Angemon
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on: May 22, 2014 10:22
Okay, so a few more questions. Firstly, are 12 consonantal sounds and 5 vowel sounds enough? Or will I need more?

Second, now that I have chosen the sounds I want, how do I put words together? I have my desired word structure, but do I just put the sounds together?
dirk_math
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on: May 22, 2014 02:43
The next step is to decide which sounds can follow which other sounds. This makes words recognisable as words of your language (e.g. ybzowr is immediately seen as not fitting with English consonant patterns).
This is not only needed for consonants but also for vowels: which vowel combinations are diphthongs and which are just vowels in hiatus.
Also are vowels allowed at the start or at the end of a word.
Which consonants can only appear at the start and which only at the end of a word?

And then a very important question: will it be an isolating language or a synthetic language? Or something in between (see degree of synthesis on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_language#Degrees_of_synthesis)?
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
tarcolan
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on: May 23, 2014 03:43
I forgot to mention this article in the Creations Corner:
http://www.councilofelrond.com/subject/how-to-create-your-own-language/
Great Angemon
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on: May 23, 2014 07:29
So, I have a labiodental unvoiced fricative "f". It makes a digraph in this language when followed by a alveolar voiced trill "r". But, technically speaking, if it's followed by another letter, does it become a digraph?

Or can someone help explain a digraph to me?

[Edited on 05/24/2014 by Great Angemon]
dirk_math
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on: May 23, 2014 10:44
As I said in my earlier post, you should determine which sound can follow which other sound. In your example you've decided that f can be followed by r without an intermediate vowel.
But this doesn't make it into a digraph, only when this combination would NOT be pronounced as fr, but let's say as fw then fr would be a digraph because adding the r changes the pronunciation of the whole group.
(Compare this to the English ph, adding the h doesn't make it into a p followed by an h but it changes the whole group into an f).
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Great Angemon
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on: May 24, 2014 11:46
Okay, I think I have everything worked out with sounds. Now, for words, do I just put sounds together following my rules?

Also, do I just assign my "words" to English words and say that it means that?
dirk_math
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on: May 25, 2014 01:09
Yes, but you should assign basic roots and the rules for derivation.

Let's say PWRUX is the basic root meaning "red". Then you could have a rule: add -U to a root makes it into an adjective, add -ARP makes it into a noun, ... (assuming you didn't choose to make an isolating language). So PWRUXARP would mean "someone red".

The point of this is that words with related meanings should look alike.


[Edited on 05/25/2014 by dirk_math]
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Great Angemon
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on: May 25, 2014 01:14
So, something like, say, riveo means jump. then, if I do an isolating language, I add the suffix 'la' for past tense, and add the suffix na for saying that 'he' did it. Then the word would be riveolana, and it would mean 'he jumped'. Right?

Also, how exactly would I be able to translate the words if I just assign them? Like, how do I find a way to translate from my lang to English, and then back?
dirk_math
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on: May 25, 2014 03:00
In an isolating language you don't use endings but only words that give additional meaning to other words: e.g. if English were isolating we'd see something like: He see yesterday two cat who more early each quick catch one mouse.
In a completely synthetic language we only use endings. Most languages are between these two extremes.
So your example is a good example in a synthetic language.

But your roots should be more extreme, let's use riveo 'jump' as verb, then e.g. riveoda could be 'a jump' (noun).
Or as in some languages you could form perfective stems, e.g. rivexo would then mean something like 'being somewhere as a result of a jump' en then rivexoda could mean 'a high place' and rivexodasta 'feeling high, dizzy' and so on.

So the important issue is: choose your root words well and then make some rules for derivation (endings, stem changes, prefixes and so on in a synthetic language, separate supporting words in an isolating language, or a mix of the two systems).

Your dictionary would then contain the root words and their translations.
And more complicated derivational rules would mean you need less roots (e.g. we wouldn't need a separate root for 'high' if your language has a rule for perfective stems).


[Edited on 05/25/2014 by dirk_math]
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Great Angemon
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on: May 25, 2014 05:02
Sorry, not an isolating language, an agglutinating one.
Great Angemon
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on: May 25, 2014 05:50
I know I'm asking a lot of undoubtedly dumb questions, so thanks for helping me.

So, again, let's say Riveo means jump. Then we attach a suffix that makes it past tense, and one that denotes it was a man. Now it reads Riveolana, and it means he jumped. That's an agglutinating language, right?

Also, once I have several roots, as well as affixes that change their meaning, how do I translate it into English. I know what the word means, but how does it get there? For example, how does jump turn into Riveo?

[Edited on 05/25/2014 by Great Angemon]
dirk_math
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on: May 26, 2014 12:27
Yes, that's an agglutinating language.

And that the root riveo means 'jump' is entirely your own choice. You could of course base your roots on a natural language, but even then that's up to you.
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Great Angemon
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on: May 26, 2014 07:54
I know that it's my choice, but what I mean is, how does J-U-M-P get to be R-I-V-E-O. How does English become the Romanized form of my lang?
dirk_math
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on: May 26, 2014 12:47
Sorry, I don't understand your question.
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Great Angemon
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on: May 26, 2014 06:39
Alright, I think I have almost everything figured out. All I need now is to start root words. What would you suggest for root words, or else list of words for good root words?
Great Angemon
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on: May 27, 2014 01:20
Alright, one last question. How do you suggest making names? My idea is looking up their name's meaning, then translating that. Otherwise, what is your idea?

Okay, one more. If I wanted a single word to mean a whole set of words in English, how would I do that? Like Iluvatar means he that is alone.

[Edited on 05/27/2014 by Great Angemon]
dirk_math
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on: May 28, 2014 06:46
For a list of root words you can always use Tolkien's list from the etymologies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Etymologies_(Tolkien)).

And using the meaning of names is a good way to translate them into your language.

When one word has more than one meaning in another language, this is mostly a consequence of the grammar (formation and derivation of words from roots) or of the evolution of the language (during the evolution of a language some words are lost and then that meaning is transferred to another word).
It might of course also be that the users of the language don't perceive a difference between two notions.
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Great Angemon
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on: May 29, 2014 12:38
How does everybody create words for their conlangs? I'd appreciate as many opinions as possible for this question.
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