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pv
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Post Who's your personal Tolkien hero?
on: August 09, 2014 09:54
Recently, both Gandolorin and Tarcolan mentioned that they saw Sam as a hero. To some of us, Sam is a nice guy, but we might not have looked at him in that way.

It occurred to me that each person who reads Tolkien finds a different hero in the books. For some it's Feanor, for some it's Sam, and for some it might even be Gollum!

So I thought it might be nice to talk about that here -
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Bartimaeus
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on: August 09, 2014 10:10
Well, Gollum is certainly the most attractive character in the books.

But if I had to choose a personal hero, it would probably be Fingolfin. The young elf, noble and dynamic, more reasonable than his brother but excitable enough to join him (and with his talents, he plays no minor part in subsequent events). The mature, sad elf who watches everything going wrong around him, and who knows he's played a part in what's happening, but continues bravely, sadly, doing the right thing. I see him trudging wearily across the grinding ice - he's turned his back on the Valar and their golden age for the sake of his kin, and his kin have abandoned him - he's lost almost everything he holds most dear, but he walks on, his face turned towards the elusive twilight wonder that is Middle-Earth. And then later... Morgoth stands like a tower of iron, but Fingolfin gleams below like a small, beautiful star - ineffectual but radiant. The weight of Middle-Earth's doom (and his own responsibility) is like a fallen hill, but Fingolfin does his best until he is finally overcome (and dies with all the honour of a hero). He reminds me a little of Sir Lancelot, who wasn't the greatest knight in the world, but did the best he could. Could any man do better?

[Edited on 08/09/2014 by Bartimaeus]
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on: October 25, 2014 05:57
Halbarad. He was basically 2nd in command of the Dunedain Rangers, and was in charge a lot, with Aragorn off to places like Rohan, Gondor, and the wilds. He is loyal, an able soldier, and a good leader, all the way until his death. If there was a war memorial constructed in Gondor for the fallen in the war, Halbarad would be the name I would go see.
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Gandolorin
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on: October 26, 2014 11:31
Starting with TTT, three Hobbits are the ones to get the job of destroying the One Ring done: Frodo, Sam and Sméagol / Gollum. Gollum gets them to Cirith Ungol, which Frodo and Sam would never have found on their own. From Cirith Ungol to Orodruin, Sam is the one to get Frodo there; Frodo would never have made it on his own. I remember Sam checking out their supplies and realizing that they only had barely enough to get them to Orodruin, realizing this is a one-way trip as far as he knows. This makes him the greatest (and at the same time most unlikely) hero in the book, in my opinion. He stays with Frodo out of loyalty, to complete a quest that, if successful, will save the world of which he is a part, and destroy the primary menace to this world without the hope of surviving himself.

I have read much here on CoE about what led to Sméagol / Gollum's fall into the Crack of Doom, including that he sacrificed himself to repay Frodo for sparing him in the Emyn Muil. A hypothesis that I have sympathy for - but perhaps it is incomplete. Gollum had followed the One Ring from the West Gate of Moria to regain it and KEEP it for himself. Frodo put it on right next to the Crack of Doom, giving Sauron a serious case of whiplash when he realized where the One Ring now was. Gollum had the One Ring more than twenty times as long as Frodo did. So, even though he did not put it on before falling into the Crack of Doom, he was far more sensitive to Sauron's attention to it, and realized that regaining it just there was about the worst precondition to being able to KEEP it. And "it is said" (meaning I will not be able to find the exact source this evening) that Sauron, while interrogating Gollum, sensed that there was in this creature something ultimately indomitable even by himself. So perhaps a stronger motive than all others was that Gollum realized that his renewed possession of the One Ring was destined to be very short, unless he made sure he was its last possessor by destroying it and himself in his last gesture of spite to Sauron - who was destroyed in the process, too.

[Edited on 10/26/2014 by Gandolorin]
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tarcolan
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on: October 26, 2014 03:56
I thought Tolkien was pretty clear about Gollum's little accident. Eru tripped him up. The reason he gave is theological in nature, i.e. that only God can defeat evil. I forget which letter it's in, I'll try and find it and edit this.

Anyway, back to heroes. The word originally meant demi-god, protector. Then it meant brave and strong. Now it can mean the main male character in a book or someone you look up to, a role model. Take your pick.
Gandolorin
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on: October 30, 2014 11:52
tarcolan said:I thought Tolkien was pretty clear about Gollum's little accident. Eru tripped him up.

I have uncertain memories of something like that, too.

But now I cannot resist a bit of Middle-Earth blasphemy!

Eru's first direct intervention: the flat earth is made round, Númenor is cast into the abyss, Aman and Tol Eressëa are removed from the circles of the (round) world;
effect on Sauron: weakened a bit by the destruction of his visible, tangible form and the need to reconstruct himself, but still able to cause enormous trouble.

Eru's second direct intervention: he trips up a small, very ruined Hobbit (but who has NOT become a wraith in almost 500 years!!!) who is madly dancing inches from a drop into a lava pool anyway;
effect on Sauron: almost (?) complete destruction; unless he gets chucked out to join his boss Melkor / Morgoth, he is reduced to an impotent spirit.

The difference in subtlety is mind-boggling beyond belief.

PS: Why did Eru not just trip up Isildur 3000 years earlier??? These are serious learning curve issues!
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Sarniel
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on: November 25, 2014 03:55
This is just wild guessing on my part, but could the letter explaining Eru's involvement have been written after Gollum's accident, as godlike intervention is never directly mentioned in the LOTR books, so Tolkien could have been trying to add a theological element to his ending later? We all know he tended to change his mind...

Back to the original topic: If I were to choose one hero from the Middle Earth it would definetly have to be Sam. He never agreed to go on the journey by himself, not like Frodo, who willingly volunteered to carry the ring, and he had to face way worse challenges than the rest of the fellowship. All he ever wanted was to see the Elves, instead he ended up walking miles through marshes and sharp rocky ground, all the while keeping one eye open for Gollum's sneaky plans, carrying most of the equipment and finding food, not to mention encouraging Frodo on the way, and carrying him towards the end, saving him from Shelob despite Frodo betraying his trust and telling Sam to go home. He managed to find the will and the courage for all that somehow and actually remained optimistic and looked forward to going home and living a normal life after all that, up to the point where he knew it would be a one way trip, where he chooses to forfeit all his dreams of marrying Rosie and a normal life in favour of finishing the journey and carries on despite everything. Granted, he never carried the Ring for a long time, so he did not suffer the effects as Frodo did, but in my opinion, were it not for him, Sauron would never have been defeated, as Frodo would not have made it to Mount Doom alone.

[Edited on 11/25/2014 by Sarniel]
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
ItarildeSirfalas
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on: January 11, 2015 01:09
I have two personal heroes in the books I have read (due to the fact I have only read The Hobbit and the LotR trilogy... I'm sorry I'm getting around to the others, guys!)

My own personal hero is Elrond. I would list why, but it would take a while, and it would turn into fan-girling eventually.

The other is Samwise Gamgee, due to his immense inner strength, devotion and loyalty. Like everyone has said, without Sam, Frodo would have struggled considerably to get to Mordor alone. Not only that, but despite all the odds, Sam still stood up for what he believed in and kept that with him throughout his journey. I just think he's a wonderfully written character

[Edited on 01/11/2015 by ItarildeSirfalas]
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findemaxam48
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on: January 19, 2015 03:45


[Edited on 06/02/2015 by findemaxam48]
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Nifredil
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on: January 20, 2015 04:25
I have always been amazed by Maedhros, his strength of character, his inner fire that pushes him to fight against evil and to keep te word he has given. Young and with a soft heart, he is hardened by the trials life throws at him - and sadly is consumed by the oath he gave (when he really could have had no idea what it was all about and where it might lead). To live through the humiliation and torture he was subjected to - and to emerge unbroken and an even fiercer warrior than before... I find it amazing. I would have wished more joy and love in his life, but alas, it was not to be so.
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Bill the Pony
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on: January 22, 2015 01:27
All of the character are heroes! I have to say, though, that my favorites are Sam, for his loyalty, and Eowyn for her courage.
If it had not been for Sam, Frodo would never have destroyed the ring! Also, if it hadn't been for Eowyn, the Battle of Pellennor Fields would have been a victory for Sauron.
lanthiriel1
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on: May 27, 2015 01:15
Honestly, Faramir is my choice. I love how he overcame his past, and was able to win the heart of fair Éowyn. The films did not do him justice... the books show his true heart.
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Gandolorin
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on: May 28, 2015 03:44
lanthiriel1 said:Honestly, Faramir is my choice. I love how he overcame his past, and was able to win the heart of fair Éowyn. The films did not do him justice... the books show his true heart.

PJ's treatment of Faramir is one thing I will NEVER forgive him for. From what I have read on other sites, Faramir was one character neither PJ nor the other two scriptwriters understood in the slightest (they just needed to read Tom Shippey's "Author of tthe Century" - © 2000!!! - to get it right!).

This mess has nothing to do with fanfic - it is the most glaring case of sheer stupidity in all six movies.

[Edited on 05/28/2015 by Gandolorin]
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ItarildeSirfalas
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on: May 30, 2015 11:53
Gandolorin said:
lanthiriel1 said:Honestly, Faramir is my choice. I love how he overcame his past, and was able to win the heart of fair Éowyn. The films did not do him justice... the books show his true heart.

PJ's treatment of Faramir is one thing I will NEVER forgive him for. From what I have read on other sites, Faramir was one character neither PJ nor the other two scriptwriters understood in the slightest (they just needed to read Tom Shippey's "Author of tthe Century" - © 2000!!! - to get it right!).

This mess has nothing to do with fanfic - it is the most glaring case of sheer stupidity in all six movies.

[Edited on 05/28/2015 by Gandolorin]


I agree, Faramir's character was not done enough justice in the films whatsoever! Although I do think David Wenham did the best job he could with the script he was given, Faramir just wasn't explored thoroughly enough as a character! Poor Faramir
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PSK
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on: June 01, 2015 04:08
Also was Faramir not portrayed as at first having the same desires in Boromir. I think it is pretty clear in the book that he is completely different, and that is something that makes him special.
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Gandolorin
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on: June 01, 2015 04:30
ItarildeSirfalas said:... Although I do think David Wenham did the best job he could with the script he was given ...

He was given the most ignorant piece of scriptwriting in all six films, as I have raged about above. But then - I know exactly nothing of other roles he has played elsewhere - I have the feeling that he may not have been quite the right choice for a true-to-the-book Faramir. I believe I have written elsewhere that Viggo would have been a better Faramir in the sense of the book. But then, Viggo's Aragorn had some weaknesses that I would have found offensive for a Faramir faithfully transferred from book to movie.

@PSK: In the book, as far as I am concerned, Faramir is wiser than his father Denethor - far wiser.

[Edited on 06/01/2015 by Gandolorin]
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tarcolan
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on: June 02, 2015 02:41
Even in the film Faramir was not tempted by the Ring. He was taking it to his father in order to please him. So in that sense it was true to the book.
findemaxam48
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on: June 02, 2015 03:18
I edited my response above, because after further consideration, I have foind another hero.

Glorfindel.

He defeated a balrog, was sent back to Arda, and helped Aragorn and the hobbits. He saved Frodo, which was obviously a major turning point for the story.

We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
dabenj19
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on: June 03, 2015 02:37
I really like celeborn,but how does he know aragorn I would like know. Thx
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dabenj19
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on: June 03, 2015 02:39
And also I really would like to know more about durin what do you guys know about him ?
benji+middle-earth= CRAZY!
findemaxam48
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on: June 03, 2015 05:06
Check the book threads, and maybe the movies ones. You can create a thread to ask a question there.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Lindarielwen
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on: June 03, 2015 06:24
dabenj19, you can also check Elrond's Library at the top left. Look under encyclopedia and then you can do a search. There is a lot of info there. Welcome to the Council of Elrond!
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PSK
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on: June 04, 2015 12:41
I know what you mean Maxie, but for me he isn't really a hero in the same way Aragorn or Sam are, because he is so awesome that if he didn't manage to do those things we would be asking question. As Elrond says, he is an Elf-lord in all his glory. The things he does aren't extraordinary feats of courage or anything, they are basically easy for him.

And lol Lindarielwen, I guess it's any forum you visit!
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dabenj19
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on: June 04, 2015 05:08
Thanks for the advice!
benji+middle-earth= CRAZY!
Edhelharn
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on: June 09, 2015 10:03
Fingolfin. He fought to the last, died bravely for a cause he truly believed in, and sacrificed himself for the good of all. He knew he would die, but he still went forth and fought with everything he had. Even with his last breath, he managed to wound Morgoth so badly that Morgoth limped on that foot for ever after.
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PSK
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on: June 09, 2015 08:17
Yeah Fingolfin is the best
"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." ~ The Doom of Mandos
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