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on: January 28, 2015 08:54
I'm just the opposite, I love Thorin, but don't care much for Thranduil (too cold and arrogant for my tastes). I've seen BoFA five times already, and every single time, Thorin's death makes me cry my eyes out. I'm even crying on my way home (for this reason, I always make sure I choose the combo pack that includes chocolate). I was already tearing up during Kili's, but Thorin's nearly killed me (but not enough to keep me out of theaters, since Thorin looks much better on the big screen, and in 3D, than on the small 28' inch TV screen that I have at home, which is the biggest TV I've owned so far).

Other than the deaths, I loved BoFA, and would rank it as my favorite in the trilogy (which is a first, since I don't usually favor the one where anything bad happens to a favorite character, I usually rank these as a close second).

[Edited on 01/30/2015 by Lady Oakenshield]
PSK
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on: January 29, 2015 10:00
First of all hi Lady Oakenshield!

Second of all, I understand that certain people are fans of certain characters, and killing them off does produce some emotion. I find it hard to believe anyone could cry over those deaths though. I thought that Legolas' fighting scene detracted from the gravity of the two deaths of Thorin and Kili, and I didn't really develop much of an emotional connection to Kili (I admit I did with Thorin). Maybe I am just as unemotional as a bagpipe, who knows.

I would also rank BotFA top, only because the other were even worse. I mean come on, the elves all break rank and start fighting one on one? How un-elvish is that? I will admit it was cool when they jumped over the dwarves defense formation, but the rest of the battle was very meh.

Another thing has occurred to me while writing this. WHERE THE HELL WAS BEORN???????? His arrival is meant to be pivotal, and all I saw was a man being dropped on the ground and turning into a bear. Come on PJ...
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Gandolorin
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on: January 29, 2015 12:36
Too much to type out of TH the book, so I'll just give a summary:
Beorn appearing in the battle has pretty much the effect of The Hulk (aka Bruce Banner) getting involved in a brawl in the Marvel Comics universe. Or perhaps think of Sauron's appearance in the prologue of FoTR before he got his finger and Ring cut off by Isildur.
Even without having seen BotFA the theater version so far (waiting for the DVD), I increasingly have the impression that PJ had better deliver some canon in the EE. AuJ EE was a disappointment, DoS EE made the movie much better (the Appendices are always an entirely different matter). So we wait.
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findemaxam48
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on: January 29, 2015 01:16
I did find that the EE of DoS bought much more to the film. AUJ wasn't hindered or enhanced by it's EE...it was just given more screen time. But, then again, AUJ was by far the lightest of the films.
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on: January 30, 2015 10:36
Damn right he better deliver some cannon in the EE's. I was severely disappointed with his omission of some key moments. Beorn has been mentioned already, but also Thranduil laying Orcrist on Thorin's tomb. I was also disappointing that Bard managed to find Smaug's weak spot so easily without help. Doesn't make sense for a great dragon to be defeated so easily.
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BlueberryMuffins76
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on: January 30, 2015 11:11
Oh, I just thought of something (it's a differnt thought than whatever I was trying to remember before, which still hasn't come back). Anyway, in the book the thrush whispered in Bard's ear about Smaug's weak spot, & I really wish they had of included that. I thought it was a bit unrealistic for Bard to prop the arrow up on Bain's shoulder, even if it was kind of sweet. And anyone notice how gracefully Smaug died? To me he was almost like a butterfly floating downwards. But I guess that sounds strange lol
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findemaxam48
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on: January 30, 2015 12:53
Yes, the thrush did whisper to Bard. And Roac frequently carried messeges back and forth between the armies of the Iron Hills and the dwarves of Erebor. I am guessing that wasn't in there either?

Either way, at least we have a movie.
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Gandolorin
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on: January 30, 2015 01:52
We keep adding to the list of what's missing just from the published Hobbit book, then BoFA EE is going to be the length of RoTK EE, which was four hours flat!
And I won't complain if it is!

[Edited on 01/30/2015 by Gandolorin]
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findemaxam48
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on: January 30, 2015 01:59
Neither will I! I don't care if it is six hours, if it has all of that added material!
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BlueberryMuffins76
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on: January 30, 2015 04:01
Yeah, I totally agree! I wouldn't care if it was 10 hours, although I might get a bit tired after a while! But as long as we get something to tie up those loose ends, it should be alright.
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on: January 30, 2015 04:34
findemaxam48 said: And Roac frequently carried messeges back and forth between the armies of the Iron Hills and the dwarves of Erebor. I am guessing that wasn't in there either?


Actually, if you look closely, Thorin is speaking to a raven (I'm guessing that's Roac) just prior to his "I will have war" line. Roac is probably informing him that Dain's army has arrived.
findemaxam48
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on: January 30, 2015 08:02
I didn't see the film yet, Lady Oakenshield, so I wouldn't have seen him. Maybe we will see more of the communication in the EE.
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BlueberryMuffins76
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on: January 31, 2015 09:00
Yes, I do recall a raven briefly speaking with Thorin (I think someone mentioned on the first page or two that the amount of time between that interaction and Dain's arrival didn't seem to take long enough). And yes, I do hope there's more in EE, since that seems kind of important, plus I really love the thrush anyway! I'm all for sneaking in these nice animals!
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findemaxam48
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on: January 31, 2015 01:34
It's strange that the thrush wasn't brought up more, especially since he had his own close up in AUJ.
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BlueberryMuffins76
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on: February 07, 2015 09:14
Something else strange I thought of the other day is Kili-have I mentioned this before? I noticed that he didn't seem to limp very much, even though I'd think his wound in DoS was bad enough to cause permanent damage. Am I just remembering wrong? I could have been distracted by his relationship with Tauriel...Which brings me to one more observation: thanks to Pinterest, I learned in the sweet scene between the two by the river he's telling her she's his love in dwarvish. I was slightly disappointed because I thought it was a full-on proposal! But that's just the hopeless romantic in me. I still have mixed feelings about the whole Tauriel deal.
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yesitsjess26
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on: February 23, 2015 02:25
I agree with Blueberry about the mixed feelings with Tauriel and Kili. Personally, I would have had them leave her out, but since they put her in the movie I think they did I nice job with her.
I hope the in the EE they show Roac and they emphasize the battle. In my personal opinion, I think they sort of skimmed over it. They- understandably- focused on Thorin and those that followed him up the mountain. That wasn't much of war, though. I wish we could have seen more the battle itself. That's just me though
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on: February 25, 2015 10:28
I'm just going to wait until the full EE box set is released in the UK to fully pass my judgement again. As some of you may have seen, my cinematic experience of BotFA was ruined because I watched it in HDFR. I agree with PSK though, I didn't connect with these films the same as I did with LotR. I didn't feel like it was the end. But again, I'll patiently wait for the box sets
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PSK
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on: February 27, 2015 10:56
I have now had some more time to reflect and cool down after my emotional and slightly angry rant, but to be honest time has just worsened the pain.

Granted, this was a difficult plot to make epic, considering that it's about dwarfs trying to get to an irrelevant mountain, compared to the end of the world scenario in LOTR. However, the one place that PJ could have done that was in the battle. Unfortunately the battle was staggeringly un-epic, the eagles featured for a full 3 seconds, Beorn apparently isn't important, and the battle ended with Thorin's death, after which the Orcs had decided that they had had enough, and were going home to Gundabad for a nice mug of hot chocolate.

There is also the question: why, oh why, would you cast Billy Connolly as a dwarf king? It's not a damn comedy PJ, although the film does look like a fantastic joke.

The final straw, however, came when I watched the film again and realized Kili was talking in dwarvish. Dwarves. Never. Speak. Dwarvish. Especially not to a stupid stupid elf they met a week ago. Stupid Tauriel, stupid battle, and stupid film.

That is all I have to say.

[Edited on 02/27/2015 by PSK]
"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." ~ The Doom of Mandos
ItarildeSirfalas
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on: February 27, 2015 05:44
RIP Leonard Nimoy ♥

WOW, PSK! You did have a good go at this film, didn't you!

I do see where you're coming from, though.

I treat these films as a seperate entity... just like I do for Marvel films from the comics Makes it less painful
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findemaxam48
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on: March 01, 2015 07:26
The DVD of the Battle of the Five Armies will be released on March 24th!
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BlueberryMuffins76
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on: March 01, 2015 11:40
That means we have 23 days!!!! I will definitely have to see if I can rent it from somewhere! Maxie, I really want to know what you think about it once you see it! I will wait to actually buy it until we get the EE edition, which I'm not expecting until November :/
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findemaxam48
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on: March 01, 2015 03:47
I am anxious to see it as well! I await telling you all myopinion. I do not expect to tear the film apart, but I have a feeling there will be some "Really?" moments.
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on: March 02, 2015 11:39
My friend has always bought me the theatrical and this time I said, "No!" I will wait for the extended. I have way too many versions of Hobbit and all of LotR.

The extended of Five Armies is only 30 minutes extra.
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PSK
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on: March 02, 2015 11:40
Lol Ildë you are so right about treating them separately, it would help me calm down lol.
I did slightly tear the film apart, but I was legitimately that dissapointed.

And whoohoo Maxie, I just can't wait! Now I get to watch it again but now I can pause and shout at the TV about the film's failure at the relevant parts! Naa I'm just joking it wasn't that bad, but I do hope the EE's are a big improvement.
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on: March 02, 2015 12:10
You seem upset PSK, would you like to talk about it?

In one of the LOTR commentaries PJ suggested editing the films to put all the bits in chronological order. There's no problem with this as long as it's purely for personal use so you could edit the Hobbit films down to suit your taste. I've been thinking of doing this but I'd probably end up with a half hour movie.
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findemaxam48
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on: March 02, 2015 05:11
Tarc, you edited down the first Hobbit movie, did you not? It was two years ago, so my memory is foggy.
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BlueberryMuffins76
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on: March 02, 2015 07:35
Wait a minute, they EE of BotFA will only be 30 extra minutes? It was so short already! I was hoping for another hour at least! Now I think I'm disappointed again...
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on: March 03, 2015 10:02
Maxie, I put together an edit sheet for AUJ. The problem is the audio would be all jumpy, especially the music which tends to carry over from one scene to another as a linking device. So I got stuck then wondering what to do.
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findemaxam48
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on: March 03, 2015 12:50
Could you alter the length of the scene intro, and then have the music carry through? Sorry, I am no help since I know next to nothing about film editing.

30 minutes does seem very minimal for an EE. Especially compared to the other films.
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on: March 03, 2015 05:49
I thought the third Hobbit movie wasn't bad. I mean, I was confused in the theater when there was no scene with Thorin's tomb, and Beorn barely shows up. The battle was okay, I guess, though I feel it could have been more. However, Thorin's death scene was quite moving - I almost started crying in the theater. I don't usually do that. But Kili's was kinda meh. I think it just happened too fast for me to really get into it.

I honestly went into the theater expecting Tauriel to die, simply because I figured that since she wasn't really in the book, she was a bit more expendable. I suppose everything worked out in the end, though. But really, the battle was disappointing. The battle is practically the whole point of the movie - the movie works up to the Battle of the Five Armies (it's even in the title! Coincidence? I think not!) and the Thorin/Azog final battle. Why isn't the battle exciting? Still, I liked the movie overall.

I could probably go on about technical things (Bard shooting Smaug, Legolas's fight with Borg, also the dwarves' wall of rocks in Erebor...). Ah well. I'm waiting for the extended edition.
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Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: March 08, 2015 07:17
I went to see it the second day, Thur. at 3:00. I had bought tickets ahead, but the theater was barely half full! My fellow audience members did not contribute to the experience, I'm sorry to say. There was laughter at inappropriate places, and someone walked out to get popcorn - in front of the screen! - when someone was dying. This bothered me greatly, but I was my own worst distraction for the first few minutes, since I was so wound up I could hardly process what I was seeing. When the first notes of the score played over the opening logos, I had to remind myself to keep breathing. I should mention that this was the first ME movie I'd seen in the theater. It was an affecting experience, but it took me many days to figure out how to explain how I felt about the movie.

If I had a minute, I would just say "It was good" or "I liked it". And that's the truth, because I think it was well done. The only things I feel could be improved were the begining and the ending. I would have preferred a "real" prologue to reintroduce us to ME, and the brief, unresolved ending left me feeling sad and hollow. I expected it to be dark and tragic, and it was, but I didn't see that ending coming. I thought there were a number of ways they could have spun the ending, and I was curious to see which they would choose, but they didn't really spin it at all. A longer ending is my biggest hope for the EE. So I can appreciate the quality acting, the beauty, and the tragedy, but it is really above my like or dislike. It was worthy.

I usually "like" stuff that is fun to rewatch multiple times, like AUJ or DOS., but some of the movies I love the most I do not watch often because it is too hard on me. The Battle of The Five Armies was more in the second category.

My feelings for the music are uncomplicated - it was epic! And Billy Boyd is amazing, enough said.
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PSK
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on: March 09, 2015 11:25
Tarc, I think I need professional help...

Edhelharn, hang on a second. In the movie "The Battle of the Five Armies", which is about the Battle of the Five Armies, you think that the Battle of the Five Armies was not exciting, yet you say it was a good film! Pray explain, because as I see it, the movie was about a battle, yet the battle seemed backgrounded by various unemotional deaths!

Another thing I just thought of, in the LOTR (and pretty much any other movie), you know who is who right? Yet I doubt you could correctly identify each dwarf in the company, by looking at them in the movies. Only Thorin, Kili, Balin and Dwalin had any personality. Out of these only Dwalin and Thorin were really interesting characters. I love Balin, but he is so predictable, and frankly, due to these films I hate both Fili and Kili with a passion. Thanks again Peter Jackson.

Edhelharn also says, "Why wasn't the battle interesting?" A simple question, yet one that cannot be answered. There was really no reason for it to be bad.

I loved the misty mountains song, yet I think the rest of the music, although good, did not feel present in the sense that I only noticed it when I listened to the sound track on youtube.
"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." ~ The Doom of Mandos
Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: March 16, 2015 01:38

PSK:
Another thing I just thought of, in the LOTR (and pretty much any other movie), you know who is who right? Yet I doubt you could correctly identify each dwarf in the company, by looking at them in the movies. Only Thorin, Kili, Balin and Dwalin had any personality.


Actually, I can identify all the dwarves with little trouble. But I'll get back to that.

PSK, your experience was so different from mine that I feel genuinely sorry for you, though reading your criticisms hurt my eyes. Please don't take that the wrong way. I'll focus on the dwarf issue. Have you read the book recently? Thorin, Balin, Fili, and Kili are the only ones in the book with personality, and Thorin is much more developed than the other three. The way I see it, the other dwarves weren't SUPPOSED to be developed. They are background characters. Few are the movies that have 13+ fully rounded characters. They actually have more individual personality in the movie, and I think that proved deceptive for you and some others I have heard from. The moviemakers wanted each dwarf to have distinct appearance and mannerisms, and that probably led some people to expect more of each dwarf. Thorin, Fili, Kili, and Balin were my favorite dwarves in the book, and remain so in the movie. The movie did succeed in adding Bofur to my favorites though, and this made me wish for more of him in BOTFA.

I checked out the visual guide to The Unepected Journey, and in a short time I learned to tell the dwarves apart. It was fun knowing who everyone was while watching. Once I could do that, I noticed a consistent, though low level, characterization for each dwarf.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
BlueberryMuffins76
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on: March 16, 2015 02:22
I admit the dwarves still confuse me! However, Bofur seems to have some personality & I personally find him rather lovable & humorous; you do need to see the extended scenes of AUJ in order to get the full effect. I do agree with Elfeawen here that most of them aren't supposed to be developed, although Dwalin, I believe, is constantly helping Bilbo in the book (which I wish they had more of in the films!). When I re-read the book, I noticed even Fili & Kili aren't that developed. However, I do enjoy what PJ did with them & their relationship with Thorin. Anyway, that's my two-cents worth from an incredibly biased Fili fan!
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Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: March 16, 2015 05:21
Haha, I was just reminded that I mixed Aragorn and Boromir up a few times. And I was still having trouble with Merry and Pippin in TTT! Seems unbelievable now.

I loved Fili and Kili in the book, and I was shocked when they died. It made it worse that I went through the emotional last scene with Thorin, and then it mentioned, "oh yes, and Kili and Fili died too." I never fully recovered from that. Actually, I had been promised by my father that nobody would die in order to get me to read it. He wasn't lying; he genuinely did not remember.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
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