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Varyalener
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Post Legolas quote - Quenya translation
on: March 19, 2015 07:13
Just for means of practice and learning, I have made some Quenya translations of Legolas quote: "Farewell! I go to find the sun!". I would like someone to check them and tell me if there is something wrong and which of them is the best one.


A) Namárië! Lelyan hirien Anar!

B) Namárië! Autan hirien Anar!

C) Namárië! Lelyan omentien Anar!

D) Namárië! Autan omentien Anar!


Note: Once Legolas said "to find" with (I think) the actual meaning of "to meet", I'm not sure if hir- is an apropriate verb for this translation, since (as well as for the verb tuv-) I don't know if it means "find" only in the sense of "finding something or someone that is/was lost" (also "to discover something"?) or if it could be used in the sense of "to meet", as well. Maybe a quenya verb that specifically means "to meet" is more apropriate, so I came with omentien "to meet, for meeting", which is the gerund of omenta- + dative. Though I could not find a quenya verb for "to meet" in any wordlists, there is the word omentië "meeting", which I believe to be a gerund, suggesting a verb omenta- or oment-. Don't know which one would be the verb stem, but here in CoE (Studyin Elvish Tools > Useful Elvish Phrases to Learn) I found vandë omentaina translated "well met" (mae govannen in Sindarin). The passive participle omentaina points to omenta- (oment- would have omentina as its passive participle). Makes no difference, though, as both omenta- and oment- would have omentië as the gerund.

[Edited on 03/19/2015 by Varyalener]
Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
dirk_math
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on: March 19, 2015 08:19
The prefix ó- (o- when unstressed) means "together" so omenta- is in fact menta- "send, cause to go" with that prefix and thus means "cause to go together". It is clearly stated that both parties need to move if you want omentië to be applicable. So unless the sun is also coming towards Legolas omenta- might not be the good choice.

Hir- indeed is better restricted to "find that what is lost".
The verb cesta- "seek, search for" might be better, and probably also sur- "seek" (a component of minasurië).
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Varyalener
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on: March 20, 2015 05:05
So omenta- is out of question...

Though lelya- and auta- have slightly different meanings, I think, for this translation, it is equally valid to use one or the other. I choose to go with lelya-. And since both cesta- and sur- have the same meaning, I go with sur- because, for me, Legolas' phrase in Quenya will sound better with this verb. So my choice for the translation is:

Namárië! Lelyan surien Anar!


Thank you very much again!!

[Edited on 03/20/2015 by Varyalener]
Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
Varyalener
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on: April 09, 2015 08:25
Well, I was translating another text into quenya, and in Helge Fauskanger's wordlist I just stumbled with the verb form véla "see", which appears to be the present tense from a presumed verb stem vel- "see" in the sense of "meet". If so, this verb is just perfect for the quenya translation of Legolas' quote "Farewell! I go to find the sun!", for it translates "to find" (seemingly used in the sense of "to meet" ) more precisely than sur- "seek" does. If there's is no problem using vel-, then I'm going to change the translation once again:


Namárië! Lelyan velien Anar!


Two questions that didn't occur to me before:

Instead of using velien (or surien), could I use the verb in the infinitive as well? – lelyan velë Anar (or lelyan surë Anar); that is, without denoting purpose (unlike the gerund+dative does).

Also, I thought of lelya- in the future tense (lelyuvan velien Anar "I'll go to see (meet) the Sun" ) rather than in the present tense. Would this be ok? (though I prefer using the present tense anyway)

[Edited on 04/10/2015 by Varyalener]
Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
dirk_math
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on: April 10, 2015 02:37
Quenya doesn't have a near future tense like English (going to ...), thus lelya + infinitive cannot be used in this meaning.

The only other way in which to use verb + infinitive is for modal verbs. A modal verb always adds a feeling that what is expressed by the infinitive maybe doesn't happen or doesn't have to happen (can, may, must, want, wish, ...). In quite a few other languages this is expressed by the subjunctive mood.

The closest Quenya has to a subjunctive mood is using the particles nai or cé. E.g. nai hiruvan Anar "may I find the sun" looks fine to me.

But in any case I would avoid lelya + infinitive as lelya doesn't express any modal meaning.
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Varyalener
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on: April 10, 2015 12:52
My mother-language uses the subjunctive mood.
Thank you so much!

Well, here goes the final version:


Namárië! Lelyan velien Anar!


"Farewell! I go to find the sun" (lit: "Farewell! I go to see (meet) the sun" )

[Edited on 04/11/2015 by Varyalener]
Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
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