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Lenielestel
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Post "Laid waste" and a construction question--Full lyrics added!
on: June 23, 2015 12:55
Hello! I am translating a song written by a friend of mine, and I have become stuck!

The line is "Came darkness to our forest fair, laid waste the meadow, fouled the air"

What I have so far is:

Came darkness to our forest fair
Toll dúath na eryn vain 'win

Laid waste the meadow
**Here is where I have questions!
First, can I use "mauda-" here, or is the meaning too...graphic? My dictionary also defines it as "to ravish," so I thought it might possibly work. Hoping to hear Galadivren's thoughts on this one--you always seem to catch nuances in the words that I miss!

So, my ideas are...

Maudant i lant (I know this means a forest clearing, that is the meaning I want)
Naegrant i lant

Pannant i lant nan saw.
Is this constructed correctly? I mean to say "It filled the clearing with filth."

Fouled the air
I 'welu thostant

I would welcome any advice, comments, suggestions for better word choices, etc! Thanks!

[Edited on 06/24/2015 by Lenielestel]

[Edited on 06/28/2015 by Lenielestel]
Galadivren
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on: June 24, 2015 05:17
Eeh, no. It might mean more the original meaning of 'rape' as in 'to rape the land', but I somehow doubt it. (And even if it was, people would read it as the modern meaning I think). *scratches head* my latest version says Maitha- = to rape, ravish, I must have changed it somewhere along the lines. Ah yes, it's in my corrections and changes list.

Don't forget the long vowel on gwîn, or it looks like you're saying something else.

Given 'lay waste' means ruin, first ideas are Rag- break/Ractha- shatter, but they don't quite convey the meaning. I think you would need 'an' in these - Naegrant anin lant = it caused pain to the clearing otherwise it's "The clearing caused pain". To what? Not sure it sounds right though.

Pannant i lant nan saw. Yip, just needs mutation on saw
I 'welu thostant. I think I'd use the participle -> I 'welu thostannen.
I like these last two options more!
Lenielestel
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on: June 24, 2015 08:52
Thank you! You are always such wonderful help!
Lenielestel
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on: June 26, 2015 11:33
I've finished translating the song, and hope for a few better minds than mine to have a look and check my errors! . Much appreciated!

Branching Kindred
Gylf Nost

The beech, the walnut and the oak
I fêr, lebethron, adh doron

Together in the Greenwood stand
Go-cuiar mi Eryn Galen

Upon them growing leaves so bright
Am tin tuiar laiss glân

Each radiant 'neath the summer's light
Laiss phain celair nu gail laer

Came darkness to our forest fair
Toll dúath na taur vain 'wîn

Laid waste the meadow
Naegrant anin lant

Fouled the air (I know Galadivren already said the participle would be better here, but this fits better in the music...poetic license?)
I 'welu thostant

And long defended was our land
Adh tirnen bardor 'wîn anann

For still the mighty trees did stand
In 'elaidh beleg bronanner

From distant shores there came a seed
Eredh toll o esgair haeron

And planted in a time of need
Feriannen ned i lû o thang

Grew up to conquer darkest night
Galant orthori môr delu

T'was tree with limb and branches white
Est galadh nan gylf faen

Then stood together all of these
Thî in 'elaid in tanganner

From woodland realm to distant seas
O taur ardh na aear chaeron

Their deadly foe they overcame
I gûd delu dîn ertherir

And wrested from the dark its flame
Adh mabanner i naur vorgul

Now beech and walnut, white and oak
An si fêr, lebethron, faen, doron

Are become one as kindred folk
Erthannen sui galadhrim nost

So all may hope to see the sight
Adh pelim harthad ceni

Of leaf so green on twig so slight
Laiss laeg am gylf taen

This song was written by my cousin as part of a story about elves she created for my Christmas present. I wish you could hear the music, it is truly lovely!
Galadivren
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on: June 28, 2015 04:33
Sorry I hadn't seen you'd posted this!

Branching Kindred
Gylf Nost

Hmm. Really that just says 'Branches Kindred', it's not an adjective at all. Though I get the metaphor with the following lines.

The beech, the walnut and the oak
I fêr, lebethron, adh doron

I wouldn't use lebethron for walnut, as lebethron is much more ebony. It's glossed as a black hard-wood. A walnut tree would be an 'orn' or even a 'toss'.

Together in the Greenwood stand
Go-cuiar mi Eryn Galen

Go-guiar min Eryn Galen.
Min = In the and Go- causes soft mutation.

Upon them growing leaves so bright
Am tin tuiar laiss glân
Am cause soft mutation. Am tin -> Am din.
You might also want mutation on glân. It's the difference between 'leaves are bright' and 'bright leaves'. The former doesn't sound right to me with the given English translation.

Each radiant 'neath the summer's light
Laiss phain celair nu gail laer
If you want it word for word, Nuin = Under the.

Came darkness to our forest fair
Toll dúath na taur vain 'wîn
Na taur -> Na daur (Na like all prepositions causes soft mutation).

And long defended was our land
Adh tirnen bardor 'wîn anann
Adh is only used as a variant before a vowel. Use 'A' and it causes soft mutation. Adh tirnen -> A dirnen.

For still the mighty trees did stand
In 'elaidh beleg bronanner
beleg -> veleg. Adjectives take soft mutation.

Grew up to conquer darkest night
Galant orthori môr delu
The Sindarin doesn't match the English? It says 'It grew to conquer hateful black/night'. If you want it word for word -> Galant orthoro fuin rovôr.
Ro- is the superlative prefix. môr = dark rovôr = darkest.
Fuin = dead of night.

I'll do the rest later.

[Edited on 06/28/2015 by Galadivren]
Lenielestel
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on: June 30, 2015 01:49
Thanks so much! Obviously, I am weak on the mutations. That is my next area of focus! Thanks especially for the reminder about ro- I knew there was a superlative, but I could not for the life of me remember what it was or in which source I had read about it! Your translation is much neater.

Why orthoro instead of orthori? Did I get the infinitive wrong? Or does Sindarin use the gerund where English would use an infinitive?
Galadivren
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on: June 30, 2015 06:48
The superlative Ro/Rau is in PE/17 .
Sorry for not getting back and doing the rest yet...

Yeah infinitives aren't seen in Tolkien's later Sindarin at all so depending what nuance you want you either want:
Galant orthoro = it grew (to) conquer (imperative)
Galant orthorol = it grew conquering (adjective)

From woodland realm to distant seas
O taur ardh na aear chaeron
O taur -> O daur

Their deadly foe they overcame
I gûd delu dîn ertherir
I gûd -> I 'ûd

And wrested from the dark its flame
Adh mabanner i naur vorgul
A vabanner uin môr i naur dîn
uin = from the
Morgul is very much 'dark sorcery', unless that's what you were going for?

Now beech and walnut, white and oak
An si fêr, lebethron, faen, doron
thî = now and same comment about lebethron and walnut as before.
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