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Forum Home » Books Discussion » Book Club » QS 7 - Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post QS 7 - Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: April 30, 2016 08:38
1) Had Feanor not walked in on Fingolfin's conversation with Finwe, would it have made a difference; would Finwe have been able to sway Feanor?

2)Feanor had already rejected his father and moved out, but he was in no way going to let anyone usurp HIS position. Did he really want itboth ways? Was this an example of his self-absorbed narcissism?

3) Do you think that Feanor was really starting to believe Melkor's suggestions, or was he just cynically using them for his own advantage?

4) Why did Feanor react so violently when Melkor mentioned the safety of the Silmarils?

5) Why did his sons and father follow Feanor into banishment? Why didn't he tell them not to follow?
Neenime
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on: May 01, 2016 11:20
1) I doubt that the conversation made much difference. Earlier in the chapter is reference to his heart becoming "fast bound" to the things he had made, loving them " with a greedy love". Once someone becomes greedy s/he then becomes defensive and will twist benign evidence or will imagine slights and signs of ill will in others.

Finwë being the leader who took his people through the travails of the journey from Cuiviénen, we might speculate that he possessed some skill in persuading others and dealing with their troubles. He might have had a fighting chance , had Fëanor not worked himself up when he arrived to see Fingolfin already speaking to their father. Mind you, the fact that strife was said to have arisen amongst all three of the brothers, he would have had his work cut out for him. Reason seldom triumphs over raw emotion. He would have had to appeal to something of equal or greater emotional value than their respective pride.

2) Wanting it both ways is the hallmark of a Narcissist. They want want they want but fail to recognize that others also want and deserve attention ,approbation and influence.

3) I tend to think that Melkor had perfected his whispering techniques and, as a Valar, he'd be pretty powerful in whatever skill he had. Any doubts in Fëanor's mind might well have been over-ridden by his personal agenda.

4) my guess is that, as Fëeanor's main claim to fame, anything that threatened them would have set all the alarm bells ringing in his head. He would have sprung into action without necessarily considering the potential for Melkor's ulterior motives.

5) looks as if they had divided them selves into camps anyway, so pride required solidarity.

“Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I have found. I have found that it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love. " Gandalf
Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: May 19, 2016 05:23
What difference did it make that Fëanor walked in on his father talking to Fingolfin?
Well, it was unfortunate, but I don’t think it made much difference in the larger scheme of things. If it hadn’t happened, Morgoth’s lies and the pride of the sons of Finwë probably would have brought about a similar confrontation at another time.

Did Fëanor reject his father when he moved out? How did he reject his father? I do not see this. Is this an example of him being a self-absorbed narcissist? I don’t know. People are using terms like narcissist and nihilist but I don’t know what definitions are being used so I can’t comment. Like Nerdanel, I want to understand minds, but somehow I don’t feel the need to find a label to fit the complexity that is Fëanor under.

Did Fëanor actually believe Morgoth’s suggestions, or was he just using them to his own ends? He didn’t know they came from Morgoth, if he had, he probably would have rejected them outright. But Morgoth was very careful to plant his ideas in a way that seemed to come from your own mind.

Why did Fëanor react so violently when Morgoth mentioned the safety of the Silmarils?
The Silmarils are dearest of all the works of Fëanor to his heart. They are his crowning achievement, the culmination of his learning, skill, and artistry. He put some of his soul into those gems. Any Elf in his place would be uncomfortable about talk of their theft.

There is more than that, of course. I feel that Fëanor has been haunted by the fear of loss his whole life, for he alone of the Elves has lost his mother. The author of the Silmarillion implies that he may have been motivated to create the Silmarils out of a premonition that the Trees would not be forever - a possibility that no one else seems to consider. I think his goal was to use his abilities to preserve forever and unperishing those things he valued most. But even his skill cannot grant him security; I think he may also have worried about losing the Silmarils. Morgoth describes a scheme to obtain the Silmarils to Fëanor that is deeply unworthy of the Valar but inadvertantly reveals the way Morgoth himself operates. Fired by his passion for the Silmarils, Fëanor pierces the mind of Morgoth against the will of this powerful being and sees his evil thoughts - a feat no one, except perhaps Ulmo, has replicated.

Why did his sons and father follow Feanor into banishment? Out of love and loyalty, I would imagine. Family pride may have been part of it. As Neenime said, the Noldor were becoming polarized and dividing into factions.

Why didn't he tell them not to follow? He was probably glad to have them. And it’s not like his place of banishment was a horrible place, so there was no pressure to nobly ask them to leave for their own good.

It doesn't say Nerdanel went with them. Hmmm . . . oversight, or the beginning of estrangement?
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: May 19, 2016 05:24
I love it that Fëanor basically slammed his door in the face of the mightiest being in Arda.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
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