Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Languages » Quenya Discussion » Enemies of Gondolin
Author Topic:
Foedhrass
Council Member
Posts: 6
Send Message
Post Enemies of Gondolin
on: August 05, 2016 06:01
Hi there!

I am currently working on a Silmarillion cosplay and I want to add an inscription in Quenya to the weapon.
I tried to work it out myself with the aid of the "Quenya Course" by Helge K. Fauskanger but I'm not entirely sure what case to use. In that course it is emphasized that the Genitive is mostly used as possessive (Thingol, the king of Doriath - as in the tie between king and kingdom) or partitive (elenion ancalima - the brightest of the stars, which is of course, still one of the stars), or to express the provenence: "Varda ... ortanë máryat Oiolossëo" - "Varda raised her hands from Oiolossë".

But an "enemy of Gondolin" - ideally - does not belong to Gondolin, but comes from the outside. Is the Genitive still the right case?

I toyed with the idea whether the Allative could be the right case (as in "enemy towards..." but in all examples a literal motion is given, not figuratively), or the Ablative, which even has "Itarildë Ondolindello" as example, but in this case in the examples there is either a literal motion from ... (away), or in the sense of origin (Idril of Gondolin).

Long story short, maybe I'm overthinking it and the Genitive is the correct case - but I don't know and I'd appreciate any help.

I haven't decided yet on one inscription. It's either

"Enemies of Gondolin, beware!"

= A cotumor Ondolindeo (??) tira! (tira = watch!)

or

"Enemies of Gondolin, beware of / heed this blade!"

= A cotumor Ondolindeo (??) cima hyanda sina! (?)


It would be awesome if anyone could help, to confirm or correct these phrases. Thanks a lot

Best regards
Foe
dirk_math
Quenya Workbook Mentor
Posts: 622
Send Message
Avatar
Post
on: August 06, 2016 05:24
Normally we keep the á of the imperative together with the verb (and it should be a long á: á tirë, á cimë). Furthermore both verbs are consonant-verbs, so the ending is -ë not -a.

The genitive is indeed the appropriate case.
So your translations are quite good.
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Tamas Ferencz
Council Member
Posts: 44
Send Message
Post
on: August 07, 2016 10:57
In his essay Common Eldarin: Verb Structure Tolkien writes that

In Q. when this [i.e. the imperative particle á] was added with suppression of aorist-present vowel the expression was very imperious or urgent: tulā, come at once!, oryā, get up. Preceding the verb it was less imperious. Thus there was a gradation: á tule! do come!, tule! come, tulā, come at once.


[Edited on 08/08/2016 by Tamas Ferencz]
Languages of Middle-Earth Community - Google Plus https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105957840800720660334
dirk_math
Quenya Workbook Mentor
Posts: 622
Send Message
Avatar
Post
on: August 08, 2016 01:43
I know but you can't have both: either use á or otherwise the continuous stem.
And I know Quenya so when I simplify things it is done as a teacher, so it is not needed to show your knowledge!



[Edited on 08/08/2016 by dirk_math]
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Foedhrass
Council Member
Posts: 6
Send Message
Post
on: August 15, 2016 06:18
Thank you both for your replies!
But now I'm a bit confused. If you write, @Dirk_Math, "Normally we keep the á of the imperative together with the verb", do you mean the "A" at the beginning of the phrase (which I thought would be a vocative indicator, not related to the verb), or does that "a" stay there and another one is added in front of the verb?

So:
A cotumor Ondolindeo á tirë!

Or:
Cotumor Ondolindeo á tirë!

?

Thanks a lot!
Foe
dirk_math
Quenya Workbook Mentor
Posts: 622
Send Message
Avatar
Post
on: August 15, 2016 03:49
If you want to use a vocative particle then indeed you would need both a and á.
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email