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DarkLord153
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Post Saruman
on: February 06, 2017 03:41
Just a simple question I've had.Why did Saruman join forces with Sauron? He was one of the Istari,the wizards that were sent by the Valar as i remember.Why did he straight up abandon the free peoples of Middle Earth and go with Sauron's side? Wasn't he afraid of the Valar and their power? Was he corrupted by the Ring or what? I can't undestand the logic behind this so,someone please explain.
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Gandolorin
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on: February 06, 2017 05:16
Well, here book and movie diverge (in fact, as far as Saruman is concerned, there are a lot of divergences). In the book, he is hoping to find the One Ring, believing that with it, he could supplant Sauron. The Istari and Sauron are all Maiar, thought it appears that Sauron may have been of a higher rank than Curumo (Saruman), Olorin (Gandalf) and Aiwendil (Radagast) originally. Additionally, Sauron originally was a Maia of Aulë before switching sides to Melkor / Morgoth, and Saruman was also a Maia of Aulë. So maybe Aulë's Maiar need some supervision in some situations, because their love of craftsmanship made them susceptible to trending towards "industrial" skill. Kind of like the Noldor among the Elves.
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Lord_Sauron
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on: February 09, 2017 10:41
The Silmarillion tells us about the Aratar who were made up of the nine greatest Valar. If this is the case it could be possible that the Maia had their own version of Aratar possibly consisting of maybe Eonwe, Sauron, Melain and Ilmare.
I don't think Saruman had any reason to he afraid of the Valar why would he? As we know Sauron gained power early in the Second Age and had they wanted to the Valar could have easily stopped him yet they did nothing. As Gandolorin says Saruman wanted the one ring for himself, I don't think he truly joined Sauron just a means to end.
DarkLord153
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on: February 10, 2017 04:24
But there should be something going on. Saruman just that easily thinks that he can get the One ring? This is seems very unlikely,for Saruman to come across the Ring and also keep it for himself.

Also he could be afraid of the Valar in the way that they could destroy him and leave him without physical form,since the Valar are a lot more powerful

[Edited on 02/10/2017 by DarkLord153]
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Gandolorin
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on: February 10, 2017 05:25
Yes, but the Valar had decided not to intervene "personally" in the Third Age (as opposed to the end of the First Age in the Great Battle against Melkor / Morgoth), otherwise sending Manwë's herald Eonwë, perhaps the highest-ranking Maia, never mind Tulkas or any other of the Valar, would have done the trick very quickly. The best guess is probably that such an intervention could have led to similarly catastrophic results as the sinking of Beleriand in the Silmarillion - or everything west of the mountains of Lune, the mountains to the west of The Shire, where the Grey Havens ruled by Cirdan the shipwright were located, last eastern remnants of Beleriand. And Saruman had been one of the five Maiar emissaries sent to oppose Sauron, with definite limits placed on what they were allowed to do (it always seems that the "good guys" are at a disadvantage vs. the baddies, as Sauron obviously had no such constraints upon himself), and knew that the Valar would not intervene. So since Sauron appears to have transferred more than half of his native power (already reduced by the destruction of Valinor, and by his defeat at the end of the Second Age when the One Ring was cut from his finger) into the One Ring, Saruman may very well have become more powerful with the One Ring than Sauron was without it. Gandalf too, but Gandalf was aware that the One Ring could not ultimately be turned towards good, and would corrupt him. Saruman had become corrupted all by himself by the time of the War of the Ring, so very little would have changed by the corrupting force of the One Ring upon him. And again, Sauron and Saruman shared having been a Maia of Aulë way back when, so were probably similar in several ways anyway.
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