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DarkLord153
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Post The Ring's Power to corrupt
on: February 10, 2017 07:18
So,my question is,why does the ring corrupt beings that go in it's path.I have once read that the Ring would corrupt one of the Valar of the time? If this is true,what is making the Ring's influence so big that it can eventually corrupt a Valar?
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Gandolorin
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on: February 11, 2017 12:00
I don't believe the One Ring could corrupt a Vala (I'm excluding Melkor / Morgoth here, and anyway, the corruption here was in the other direction). They are just so much more powerful than any Maia that even a large part of Sauron's powers transferred to the One Ring would have hardly any effect on them, if at all. For that matter, consider Tom Bombadil. Now what sort of being he is exactly is never stated clearly, though many votes go to some sort of Maia, but many also consider him some sort of spirit distinct from them. The One Ring has absolutely no effect on him. Another hunch of mine is that it could "only" corrupt Curumo (Saruman), Olorin (Gandalf) and Aiwendil (Radagast) in their incarnations in Middle-earth, where their native powers were seriously reduced by order of the Valar. And another speculation makes me wonder if Gandalf in his resurrected form of The White (which by some hints in his oblique comments may have not "only" have been bestowed on him by the Valar, but by Eru "personally" ) might have also been immune to the corrupting influence - but would still not have been able to turn the One Ring's power towards good. I can't give you quotes from JRRT's vast legendarium (12-volume History of Middle-earth or the like) for this speculation, just educated guesses from 30 plus years of having appreciated JRRT's unique accomplishment.

[Edited on 02/11/2017 by Gandolorin]
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DarkLord153
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on: February 11, 2017 05:26
I thought so myself,but a lot of people said so,so it got me into thinking.I kind of knew that it couldn't corrupt a Vala,but then a lot of people said it,so i was stuck in that very situation.And about Tom,i don't think he is a Maia,because his power is beyond any of them.I believe that it is some kind of spirit just like you said,but a unique one.Based in your opinion,do you think Tom might have offensive powers or just friendly,if he had any powers at all.
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Gandolorin
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on: February 12, 2017 01:06
Well, he certainly had power to commend Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights. But I think he limited this to whatever could be called his domain - Goldberry says of him "He is", and that he is "Master of wood water and hill", but also that they do not belong to him. And he acknowledges no master over himself. But he certainly had no offensive powers as did Sauron, and in the end (as spoken about at the Council of Elrond, the chapter in the book), he would be last to succumb or retreat before Sauron after all others had fallen. So, again a gut feeling, the Ringwraiths would not have had a chance against him in his domain (perhaps even outside it), as his power to command would have covered them, too. The only one who could make him retreat, my guess, would be Sauron personally. What form such a confrontation could have taken is anybody's guess.
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DarkLord153
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on: February 13, 2017 02:24
I don't think Sauron could defeat him,but only make him retreat.The Ringwraths would be probably be no match from him just as you said.But,what if Sauron conquered everyone but Tom.And he marched to him.What then? Would he bow to Sauron or die?

[Edited on 02/13/2017 by DarkLord153]
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Gandolorin
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on: February 13, 2017 04:09
Even Elves can "only" have their hröa (body or garment) destroyed, while their fëa or spirit survives, goes to the Halls of Mandos, and may be reincarnated in a body again after a while. I believe there is quite a bit (if not total) consensus by now that Glorfindel of Rivendell is Glorfindel of Gondolin reincarnated. So a being like Tom Bombadil - for whom, like for the Valar and Maiar (if he is not of the latter) the term "garment" is meant for his bodily incarnation, and likely much more powerful than any Elf - would certainly not die, he might cast off or simply dematerialize his "garment".
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DarkLord153
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on: February 16, 2017 03:16
Yes i would say so myself,but the true question is would Tom bow down to Sauron if forced to? This could be a trick question to answer because Tom is a tough one,I don't think he would lose without a fight or simply a duel of some sort

[Edited on 02/16/2017 by DarkLord153]
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tarcolan
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on: February 17, 2017 03:05
This question is answered by Glorfindel at the Council.

Tom's appearance in LOTR could not even be explained by Tolkien, he just felt Tom should be there. And he makes an appearance here in the Movie Forum when he's not even in the movies.
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Gandolorin
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on: February 17, 2017 03:32
"Morgoth's Ring" is volume 10 of "The History of Middle-earth." My (admittedly very shortened) take is that Sauron poured more than half of his native power into the One Ring. A statement in the above-mentioned book (I think) is that "all of Arda was Morgoth's Ring." Meaning Melkor / Morgoth, being immensely more powerful than Sauron in the beginning of Arda, but - and this is important - finite in power, had dissipated his power over all of Arda by need of controlling his evil subjects (who would not have been so evil without this effort of his) that by the time of the Great Battle ending the First Age, Sauron was more powerful than the depleted Morgoth. Sauron took a serious hit with the drowning of Númenor, and having the One Ring cut off his hand at the end of the Second Age by Isildur t the end of the Second Age must have done damage. So, my speculation, Sauron may NOT have been able to defeat TB when he would have met him. Hemmed TB in a small area, maybe. TB was utterly immune to the One Ring in FoTR, so how would Sauron even with his ring have fared much better?
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