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dashel
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Post How many wizards are there???????
on: April 14, 2018 04:07
hello.
after reading many articles online, Im confused.
1) How many wizards are there?

The Wizards, initially known as the Istari, were five Maiar spirits sent to Middle-earth as human forms to aid the Free Peoples against the threat of Sauron. how many Istari are there? 100's? only 5?




2) How does one become a wizard in the LOTR universe?
PSK
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on: April 15, 2018 02:55
I think the answer that makes the most sense given Tolkien's writings is that there were 5.
The 5 Maia named as the Istari are Curumo, Olorin, Aiwendil, Alatar and Pallando of which the first three are involved in Hobbit and Lord of the Rings events.

I did however read recently (perhaps in Unfinished Tales) some passages that suggests there may be other unnamed Istari, or that these were the head of a larger group, but it may have been an idea Tolkien decided not to develop. I find the second idea hard to work into the established lore as given in LOTR, and given that it is incomplete it is probably safe to say there were either 5, or 5 of importance with a few helping hands.

These 5 Maia were sent by the Valar to aid indirectly in the war against Sauron. If the numbers are fixed at 5 then I think you can safely say one cannot become an Istar. If there were more sent by the Valar, then they would have to be Maia of worth selected by the Valar (or, as in Radagasts case, a Maia that Yavanna felt sorry for).
"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains." ~ The Doom of Mandos
Gandolorin
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on: April 15, 2018 03:17
Most of the information about “wizards” is in the chapter “The Istari” in “Unfinished Tales”, published posthumously by Christopher Tolkien in 1982 – sort of a prologue to the 12-volume “History of Middle-earth” published between 1983 and 1996. I’m assuming you’ve read UT. The dear old Professor really doesn’t clarify the situation with specifics here: “Of this Order [Heren Istarion] the number is unknown; but of those that came to the North of Middle-earth, … the chiefs were five.” He did like to create vague blurry vistas hovering at the edge of the actual action.

So the question naturally pops up as to how many subordinates did the five chiefs in the North have? How many of both categories were sent elsewhere?

But my feeling is that the fact that the Istari were Maiar in disguise should steer us towards assuming that there weren’t many of them. Perhaps a comparison of his concept of the Balrogs as it developed is helpful here. In early writings, like on the Fall of Gondolin, they were hordes of them. JRRT seriously cut down this number later (perhaps due to his considering them to also be Maiar, corrupted by Melkor very early). When it comes down to it, only three are ever explicitly mentioned, and only their chief, Gothmog (decisive in the death of Fëanor, himself slain by Ecthelion of the Fountain in the sack of Gondolin, Ecthelion also being slain) is named. Next is the unnamed Balrog which attacked the exiles from Gondolin including Tuor, Idril and Eärendil in a pass of the mountains surrounding Gondolin, this one slain by Glorfindel (himself slain as Ecthelion was), who later returned to Middle-earth (in a way a precursor of Gandalf in the latter’s return with vastly enhanced powers), and of course the Balrog of Moria, slain by Gandalf.

There is always the question in JRRT’s writing as to how much of what he pretends he is translating from ancient sources is purely “mannish” (and thus inevitably corrupted) writing, in the sense that the ancient authors had no access to uncorrupted Elvish sources. Personally, I would place “… the number is unknown …” and “… the chiefs …” in this corrupted “mannish” category. But it is, as JRRT himself has stated, a possible source of what he himself saw as others taking up themes he had only sketched, or even just hinted at, and filling in with their own writing, also music, art and whatnot. What is now called fan-fic. ‘Course, how much of that which has actually occurred would meet his approval – oh dear! Image
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Elthir
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on: April 17, 2018 12:57
Five.


longer opinion

As noted, in the Unfinished Tales essay on the Istari (that seemingly began as an index entry!) Tolkien suggests that there were more than five wizards (the number was unknown "but of those that came to the North of Middle-eath (...) the chiefs were five." The Istari, 1954, Unfinished Tales

... however, in every subsequent note or letter that I currently know about, and including (what I would call) the "easy suggestion" of the description published by Tolkien himself, it appears that there are only five wizards. Granted some of this is based on silence in the later notes, or a lack of mention of anything other than five...

... but it just seems a bit thin to me to suggest (not that anyone here has, yet) that every time Tolkien later referred to the "five" wizards, or even the "other two" wizards, then he really means: within the context stated back in the 1954 essay -- a wholly different text, and one written more than a decade earlier than at least some of the later "Istari musings"

My opinion anyway
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