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tarcolan
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Post Editing 'The Hobbit'
on: October 15, 2018 02:45
If you wanted to edit 'The Hobbit' down to a single watchable movie, which scenes would you definitely keep?

I've been thinking of doing this for a while. Let's go through it all starting with the Prologue. I like it.
NenyaGold
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on: October 15, 2018 03:01
Do you think it’s possible to make a good movie out of those three? I’d suggest tossing them and doing a movie about, of all things, the book! After all, it’s called “The Hobbit” for a reason. Not “The Adventures of Thirteen Dwarves”.

It should have delved into the growth of Bilbo on the journey as the book does. I could have used a lot less round about the rocks and Radagast since he wasn’t even in the book. But I’ll wait until we get to those scenes...

Oh wait! Gandalf does mention him to Beorn, saying he was his cousin...

P.S. I liked the Prologue too.


[Edited on 10/15/2018 by NenyaGold]
Gandolorin
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on: October 15, 2018 06:09
Erm ... how close to the children's book would you want to change the film(s)? With LoTR the film trilogy having aired earlier, I would guess that anybody's version of TH would have had to keep close to that age level, well above that of the book. Spontaneously, dump everything not in the book or JRRT's later writings in which he desparately tried to adjust TH to LoTR. Certainly, Tauriel disappears, Azog got killed in the Battle of Azanulbizar by Dáin Ironfoot, ...

And don't forget, Bilbo's maturing sets in when he's 51!!! He ain't no "teen hero" by anybody's definition (I have managed a maximum of five minutes of watching any teen flics of the recent decades on TV). And looking at world-wide politics of recent times, the term "maturing" severely contradicts the real world. Image
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tarcolan
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on: October 15, 2018 09:15
The guiding principle was 'a single watchable movie', not whether it adhered faithfully to the book.
So Gando, what did you think of the Prologue?
Lord_Sauron
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on: October 15, 2018 10:37
The prologue was good so I would keep it.
Gandolorin
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on: October 16, 2018 12:00
Errrrr ... I think I only watched the Hobbit movies twice - once the theatrical releases and then the EEs (unlike LoTR, we did not go to a movie theater, but solely watched them on DVD). So it's been about five years, and memory is foggy. Maybe I'll give them a re-run, but my motivation to do so is kind of in the doldrums ... Image
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tarcolan
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on: October 16, 2018 02:26
Great! Now you've got a reason.
The Prologue is very clever, with the beginning of LOTR and the start of that adventure allowing Bilbo's reminiscences to take us back to the beginning of his adventure.
Gandolorin
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on: October 16, 2018 04:08
Um ... I think I vaguely remember that - with (Sir) Ian Holm as the old, LoTR 111th birthday party Bilbo, and Elijah Wood; showing what happened just before Frodo met Gandalf at the beginning of Fellowship ...

Come to think of it, with my oldest LoTR DVDs stemming from 2002, I wonder if they still function in a DVD player! I've read some rather unsettling stuff about the durability of some versions of DVDs ... Image
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tarcolan
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on: October 22, 2018 01:38
I was including the second chapter in with the prologue. I think they go together really. So they're going in as they are. The story only really starts with chapter 3, 'Very Old Friends'.

It's an important scene, introducing young Bilbo and Gandalf, but also because it's a memorable passage from the book. It's played so well I had to retract my doubts about Martin Freeman. He nailed it.
Lord_Sauron
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on: October 26, 2018 05:10
Did you like how the Dwarves were introduced to Bilbo? Atleast Balin, Dwalin, Fili and Kili seemed polite the others (not including Thorin) just fell through the door. I can vaguely remember that the Dwarves in the book had different colour beards and cloaks
tarcolan
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on: October 28, 2018 02:59
Hang on! You're getting ahead of me. Chapter four is Bilbo trying to avoid Gandalf. Nothing wrong with? It's nice to see Hobbit life anyway. So we've got the first four chapters untouched, agreed? Is someone keeping notes?

Chapter five is titled An Unexpected Party, so it's quite crucial. How does Tolkien introduce the Dwarves? Dwalin and then Balin, check. Then Fili and Kili together, check. Then five at once... and then four more with Gandalf. So the scene isn't that different and keeps the grand entrance for Thorin. I'm fine with it, even though the beards and cloaks were wrong.

tarcolan
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on: November 03, 2018 11:15
Slight glitch there, recent posts got lost but that's a good thing isn't it? Because I forgot about Azog and the hedgehog. And of course.... bunnies! Mustn't forget the bunnies.

Bilbo runs off to join the Adventure, Balin explains the Battle of Analubizar... Ablezubinar... the Dimrill Dale. Taken from the Appendix to LOTR it's pretty accurate, except for slight change; Azog doesn't get killed. I can't fathom why they thought it necessary to have Azog as the baddie, Bolg would've had even more reason to hunt down Thorin. Azog is a major character so it's not possible to edit him out completely without serious complications. Oh well.

Next we come to Radagast. Silly, yes. Not one of the best Dr. Whos, no. Not a bad fellow as wizards go, according to Beorn. And this is a children's story so we can't complain too much. Of course he'd help a hedgehog and keep birds under his hat. Many have complained about the rabbit sledge but I think it's a very sensible mode of transport. After all you couldn't use a wheeled vehicle on that terrain.

Now to Dol Guldur where Raddy battles the Witch King (for it is he) and takes the dagger. I don't remember this from the books.
Gandolorin
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on: November 04, 2018 05:30
J.E.A. Tyler to the rescue: Azanulbizar, Elven Nanduhirion.

Azog. Bleh!!! Filmmaking, at least in its Hollywood / US TV version, is in a rut so deep it makes the Grand Canyon look like the scratch a cat's claw leaves on wood. If I rmember correctly, the three-neuron-brained set that masquerades as movie executives went nearly berserk with the notion that Sauron, the ultimate baddie, is totally "off-screen" in LoTR the book. I guess that's why we had the Sauron's-Eye-as-a-serchlight Baloney Slices in LoTR the film. And there was the Annater re-run garbage at the Black Gate that PJ just barely ditched in the end.

Since I'm assuming editing means doing with what's available and not additional pick-ups, getting rid of Azog is impossible. But if we're going for a single watchable movie, cut out as much of him as is possible.

Radagast. Strictly speaking, he has as much, meaning little, business being in the film as Azog. And as for his sled, hares would be much better as ersatz Huskies, but hare doesn't alliterate with Rhosgobel - oh well. But at least Raddy has one of the best lines in the whole TH trilogy. When Gandalf points out that they're being chased by Gundabad Wargs, Raddy replies with "These are Rhosgobel Rabiits. I'd like to se them try." A "make my day" spot that tops even the original in "Dirty Harry".

No, Raddy-in-Dol-Guldur is probably a faint echo of Gandalf's last visit there - in 2850 TA, 91 years before the events in TH. But what many pople may have missed, at least in its relevance to the Istar-vs-Nazgûl confrontation, is the inevitable result. Raddy flips the WK with his staff with a move that reminded me of a shot on goal in a lacrosse game. No other outcome is posible in an Istar-vs-Nazgûl one-on-one. That pathetic scene in RoTK with Gandalf vs. WK (and the latter on his fell-beasty instead of at the gates of Minas Tirith on his horsey) is PJ's worst offence next to having Gollum be able to get Frodo to send Sam away just beforeCirith Ungol (and his utter incomprehension of Faramir).

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'm not sure that thinking of what PJ did "wrong" too much is such a good idea for my blood pressure ... Image

[Edited on 11/04/2018 by Gandolorin]
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Lord_Sauron
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on: November 04, 2018 07:07
We could have seen a flashback of Azoz been kilked by Dain. I don't recall the Dwarves ever being chased by orcs and the only battles would be in Goblin City and later in Battle of Five Armies. It was good to see the character of Radagast though he was not in the Hobbit book(his name was mentioned by Gandaf). I didn't really like the portrayel of Radagast as it seemed that this character was treated by a lack of respect by PJ and Co. He may have been not as powerful as Saruman or Gandalf but he was an Istari nonetheless.
The Nazgul were never mentioned in the Hobbit (possibly they weren't created by Tolkien yet). Though around this time werent they getting Mordor ready. I will wait until we do the Desolation of Smaug then bring up the alliance of Azog and Necromancer.
tarcolan
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on: November 04, 2018 09:06
I'm a bit busy at the moment otherwise I'd trawl through UT. Anyway the battle was ok and we'll have to put up with Azog. Maybe trim down Raddy's bit. So we've got scenes 1 to 10 and 11 with bits trimmed. That's 40 minutes already.

Now for the trolls.
tarcolan
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on: November 06, 2018 02:23
Time is a great healer, Gando. The three film decision was made before PJ got on board.
And when was the last time you read LOTR? Gandalf was not tested in a battle with the WK, but he certainly wasn't as confident as you.

L_S, I think Raddy is portrayed as naive in LOTR, wasting his time on hedgehogs. He's may be silly in AUJ, but he's a bit more on the ball. Brave with it.

If we keep the "Make my day" beat there will have to be a bit of chase. It would be tricky to get them to Rivendell otherwise. It need trimming though. A lot of trimming.

There's a scene called Trollshaws where Gandalf and Thorin have a row and Gandalf flounces out. It's not really necessary but it does get Gandalf away. Tricky one to edit.
Oh right, we did the trolls and it got lost. Shorten the fight scene? For those who complain that Bilbo should be the centre of the story, he is here in the movie but not in the book.

The troll cave scene introduces us to the Elven swords, very important. Keep it?

We now have scenes 1-10, 11 edited, 12 cut out? 13 trimmed, 14

15 is the scene with Raddy and the WK (watch the knife), which we've already discussed. Not in the book, but possible. He's not mentioned in the tales of those times as being involved much, but it does say that he had abandoned his mission. There was at least one Nazgul at Dol Guldur but probably not the WK.
Gandolorin
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on: November 06, 2018 11:00
tarcolan said:Time is a great healer, Gando. The three film decision was made before PJ got on board.
And when was the last time you read LOTR? Gandalf was not tested in a battle with the WK, but he certainly wasn't as confident as you.

Last time I read LoTR was this year. Gandalf was not tested, true, because in the book WK decides there is something (those blasted Rohirrim) he must tend to more urgently. Gandalf was, as I see it, supremely confident in facing WK, in being able to face him down. He was Gandalf the White by then. And Shadowfax wasn't too impressed by WK, either.

Item: Gandalf the Grey held off all nine Nazgûl at Weathertop.
Item: Gandalf the Grey took out the Moria Balrog. The Balrog fled before him before the climactic battle. Serious stuff.
Item: this same Gandalf the Grey could, on the other hand, still be imprisoned by Saruman the dubiously colored.

Gandalf was then, the battle with the Balrog having had its effects, sent back to Middle-earth as the White. Consensus among JRRT scholars seems to be that this new task was set him by Eru directly, not by the Valar. And GtW is an entirely higher order of magnitude in power than GtG. Item: he has absolute power over Saruman and breaks his staff.

And in chapter V "The White Rider" of book three in TTT, when Gimli says: "I thought Fangorn was dangerous." Gandalf replies: "And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord." With Smaug and the Moria Balrog gone, this very firmly places all nine Nazgûl in the bronze medal position, and never mind the WK alone. When Gandalf rides out to the rescue of Faramir from several attacking Nazgûl on fell beasts, his appearenace is sufficient to scatter them like chaff.

Raddy at Dol Guldur: as I surmised above, it is probably an echo of Gandalf's "actual" last intrusion into Dol Guldur 91 years before the action of TH the book. Radagast the Brown probably strayed from his original task (but JRRT never got specific on what that was), and he intruded at some crucial points with what he had apparently taken as his new task, leading to Gwaihir at Orthanc. Weeding him out of the film seems to me to be as difficult as doing the same for Azog. But with Sauron (as the Necromancer) being at Dol Guldur at this time, I would guess that more than just on of his dedicated servants would be there.

[Edited on 11/07/2018 by Gandolorin]
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Lord_Sauron
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on: November 06, 2018 12:30
I always wondered if Yavanna had given Radagast her own instructions to protect the flora and fauna. The Istari were sent to help unite the free peoples against Sauron, to me the free peoples of Middle Earth referred to Men, Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits. Though would you puts Ents down as a free peoples.

Anyway next scene tarcolan
tarcolan
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on: November 07, 2018 12:54
BTW I'm using the EE discs for this. New scenes and extended scenes.

OK I accept that GtW probably could beat the WK, although he had also gained in power.

It's possible that Raddy got uppity when the Greenwood started dying, that was his department. Maybe Yavanna did recruit him. "Never mind the people, look after the hedgehogs."

15 stays but could be trimmed a bit.

Next one is the bunny chase. If it's all removed we have to get from the warg attack at Trollshaws into the tunnel.
Gandolorin
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on: November 07, 2018 04:40
I'm not sure how the scenes (or chapters) are cut, but I would take out all of the warg business includig the bunny chase, and have the company go direct from the trolls to Rivendell. I guess PJ had this urge for more action, which I don't share. And as I'm generally not happy with much "non-canon" stuff that PJ added anywhere, this would be a prime example.

btw, the cinematic versions totalled 7 hrs 42 mins, the EEs 8 hrs 52 mins. What are we aiming for in run-time for a single watchable movie? I remember that all three LoTR films had intermissions, the first two were around 2 hrs 50 mins, the third about 3 hrs 10 mins (RoTK in January 2004 was the last film we have seen in a cinema to date).
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tarcolan
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on: November 07, 2018 07:21
In today's world of home cinema the run-time is not so critical. And you can always change the playback speed, which is fun.

Bilbo found a key to the troll cave. What happened to that? And then there's the infamous Gandalf line. It's got to go, hasn't it. I can't even bring myself to repeat it here. I can't believe it was a Philippa/Fran line.

Here's the cut point after the troll cave
Raddy says of the dagger "That is not from the world of the living"

and the cut in point would be in the tunnel. Not so bad, but you lose your Make My Day moment.

Next is Rivendell, scene 17, 18, 19. So far not an orc in sight. The dialogue might get a bit confusing after this.
tarcolan
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on: November 12, 2018 06:27
There are Light Elves, Dark Elves, Deep Elves and Silly Elves. No Silly Elves here, just silly Dwarves. Not in the book. You're lucky if you haven't seen the EE version, there's even more silliness. Bofur sings the Man in the Moon song, the conceit being that this is where Biblo heard it and taught it to Frodo. Harmless enough.

There is an extra scene between Bilbo and Elrond which is a rare intimate moment, giving Bilbo Frodo's words to Gildor. He also takes a look at Narsil and the fresco of Sauron, noticing the Ring. Kinda cool.

I think we can do without the nude Dwarves in the fountain and then breaking up the furniture to burn. You're probably glad you didn't witness it, Gando. There is an extra scene between Gandalf and Elrond with Bilbo and Thorin eavesdropping.

And then the White Council.
Gandolorin
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on: November 12, 2018 06:52
I have the EEs as well as the cinematic versions, and unfortunately some of the extreme silliness got stuck in my memory. Bleh!. Well, the EEs were worth the "Appendices" - from book to film etc. ...

Food fight, Dwarves in Fountain ... as far as I'm concerned every second of additional film in the AuP EE can go. Compared to LoTR, pretty much all additional film material in TH is superfluous. In LoTR, PJ put in (generally) some stuff from the book that he had left out in the cinematic versions. In TH, there's loads of padding even in the cinematic versions.

And also a bit generally, turning TH into more of as LoTR format, especially "echoes of the future", tended to generally annoy me. Also, and this was the case with some LoTR stuff too, making things explicit that are only hinted at in the book, or conjectured about.

I'm doing all this from memory, which for AuJ EE means 2013. Just haven't been able to motivate myself to pop the DVDs into my stand-alone tower even for this ...
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Lord_Sauron
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on: November 12, 2018 08:48
I agree get rid of the Dwarf nude scene. It is so disrespectful, imagine their reaction if the Elves decided to break open Thorins tomb to take back Orcrist.

With the White Council I would of liked to have heard what Saruman was saying instead of being interrupted by Galadriel's telepathy. Get rid of the "death of Angmar and being buried" as it never happened. If Glorfindel was likelt to be a member of the White Council why wasn't he in the movie. PJ brings Legolas into the Hobbit movies as well as creates Tauriel.
Gandalf did suspect that the Necromancer was Sauron, but what was Radagast's proof although he fought off WK and saw the Necromancer. In the Desolation of Smaug Gandalf really only finds out who the Necromancer is when he is defeated by him and Sauron shows himself



Gandolorin
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on: November 12, 2018 12:50
Yes, the whole bit of mixing up the White Council meeting at which the decision was finally taken to attack Dol Guldur with the visit of the Dwarves just feels totallay wrong to me. The Dwarves' company were sent on their way and didn't have to sneak out (and how would they ever manage that in the light of the much more martial setting, much more so than in LoTR, of their arrival?), that meeting was most likely what Gandalf went to after he left Thorin and company at the western eaves of Mirkwood, and the meeting was most likely in Lothlórien, to my guess.

The Nazgûl-had-been-captured-but-have-(very-recently?)-escaped is at the very top of the stuff that should go. Total drivel.

As per Appendix B of LoTR, Gandalf discovers beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Necromancer is actually Sauron at his last "visit" to Dol Guldur in 2850 TA. That's when he also found the dying Thrain, and got the Map of Wilderland and the key to the secret entrance to Erebor.

But how to cut'n'discard without making even more of a mess of the film? Except dump the whole false White Council meeting bit ...

[Edited on 11/13/2018 by Gandolorin]
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Lord_Sauron
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on: November 12, 2018 10:33
The movies don't really tell or show how and when Gandalf got the Key from Thrain. In the movies Gandalf would of had to have been given the Key by Thrain before the dwarves tried to take back Moria. However that would of meant that Thrain never tried to go back to the Lonely Mountain. Even Gandalf believed that Thrain was killed in Moria only Thorin believed his Father was alive (movie version)
I have always wondered if Thranduil was a member of the White Council though in the movies he doesn't seem to care about what happens outside of his Kingdom

[Edited on 11/13/2018 by Lord_Sauron]
tarcolan
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on: November 13, 2018 02:04
The first scene of DOS in Bree provides your answer. Thror went to see Gandalf before the battle of Nandúhirion (Azanulbizar), Gandalf urging him to take back Erebor, and that's when he gave Gandalf the map and key. A little diversion from the story, in fact Thrain and Thorin go west after the battle. The Bree scene might tuck in nicely after the Prologue, before the Frodo bit perhaps.

There is mention of Thranduil in HoME XII 'The Peoples Of Middle Earth' but I haven't got that one. Maybe Gandolorin can enlighten us as to if and why Thranduil was not invited to the White Council. Otherwise we can make up a good reason.

I've just thought of a neat overdub in the troll cave when Biblo gets Sting -
Bilbo: "I've never used a sword in my life."
Gandalf: "And I hope you never have to, but if you do remember this.... stick 'em with the pointy end!"

It's turning out to be quite a watchable film so far. Now on to the stone-giants.
Lord_Sauron
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on: November 13, 2018 06:35
I liked seeing the stone giants, though I don't think that they were ever described being made out of stone. If they were made out of stone I wonder who actually created them Melkor or Aule? We see Thorin risk his life hanging off a cliff to save Bilbo and he tells Bilbo that he should of stayed home. Thorin told Gandalf that he couldn't guarantee safety nor would he be responsible for Bilbo's fate so why did Thorin risk his life to save Bilbo. I get that Bilbo is an important character to both the Hobbit and LotR and of course he couldn't be killed off. I would scrap that scene
tarcolan
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on: November 13, 2018 08:37
Agreed. PJ admits he was thinking of Jason and the Argonauts when he did the stone-giants, so just his tribute to Harry Hausen. They were just playing a game in the book, throwing boulders at each other, so a brief view of that is ok before heads start to roll. Then cut to them going in the cave. I think Thorin's rescue of Bilbo is just showing he's not such a bad bloke really, but it's not necessary.

I can't understand why Tolkien got talked into publishing The Hobbit. He should've known it would cause problems. I don't know if he ever explained them. Perhaps they were big trolls?

Goblintown next.
Lord_Sauron
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on: November 13, 2018 09:49
One thing that is consistent so far in this movie is that most of the dwarves don't really have any camera time or even lines. It would have been funny to see Dori carry Bilbo in his back
If we are including Bilbo's meeting with Gollum then I can say that I as happy with it and since its important to the story it should definitely be kept, it was good to see that PJ used all or if not most of the riddles.

I wasn't to impressed in the portrayal of the Great Goblin and his singing not necessary. Also is just me that thinks the Great Goblin looked to big? How would a goblin or orc get that big unless he has troll blood

tarcolan
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on: November 13, 2018 10:38
The Dwarves don't get much book time either.

There in the shadows on a large flat stone sat a tremendous goblin with a huge head...
Too big? Maybe. I like Barry Humphries and he sings the song that's in the book, so fair enough. I'd like to keep it as is because it's pretty close to the book, but cut it before he starts talking about Azog the Narvi Defiler.
Gandolorin
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on: November 14, 2018 02:59
tarcolan said:The first scene of DOS in Bree provides your answer. Thror went to see Gandalf before the battle of Nandúhirion (Azanulbizar), Gandalf urging him to take back Erebor, and that's when he gave Gandalf the map and key. ...

Eh wot?!? Granted, Thrór would have to have met Gandalf before the Aza Battle - but at that time the Dwarves were not yet revved up for a war with the Orcs. It was Thrór's getting killed (and beheaded) by Bolg in 2790 TA at the East-gate of Moria when the former went there with just one companion (who was spared to go back and give the Dwarves the warning to stay away) that precipitated that 2793-2799 war. *shake head*

Stone Giants. PJ taking things too literally. In the two-part 2008 TV movie "The Colour of Magic" (which I have on DVD), based on Terry Pratchett's novel of the same name plus the following one, there is a scene with a "Cave Troll". Literally. The party, Rincewind the hapless wizard (kind of a cross between Gandalf and Radagast, though even more befuddled than the movie Raddy), Twoflower (played by our Sam, Sean Astin!) and the latter's sentient, many-leggedly mobile treasure chest (don't ask, ya gotta see the movie) escape from a cave - which is the mouth of the troll; though perhaps it was a mountain troll? Or a hill troll?!? Meh! ...

Anyway, I would cut the Stone Giants bit as radically as possible.

Then the bit in the cave, Bilbo deciding to go back. Gets my hackles up almost as much as the scene where PJ has Frodo send Sam back during the ascent to Cirith Ungol (PJ "explains" in in the EE - seems he has this sick little urge to let the baddies have their liitle day *heave*). If at all possible, cut it. Party enters cave, cut to ground opening up.

Great Goblin. Totally crackers. And his "musical number" (only in the EE or also in the cinematic?) - DUMP!!! Cut anything not in any book. What comes to mind is GG sending a message to ... Azog, I'm guessing, as he is still falsely alive.

Mind you, I have accepted the Hobbit trilogy as a fan-fic loosely based on the book, with tons of non-canon padding (though the Dwarves' food-fight and nude bathing are definitely below any standards I accept even for a fan-fic). But if we cut to one-movie length, I'm definitely going for the non-canon padding ...
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tarcolan
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on: November 14, 2018 05:40
Much in the film is non-canon, and some that is canon is not in the film. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to stick to canon or we'll end up with twenty minutes at most. The Hobbit never was canon, just a fun children's story. And we would have to throw it all out if you want to be strict. Thror doesn't get an acute accent until LOTR Thror could've met with Gandalf during the War but before the battle of A. Perhaps he had a premonition.

Yes to cutting Bilbo's change of heart, which takes us down, down, down to the Great Goblin. We've got to have a bit of him because of the Biter and Beater bit. It's canon, as is the song. Gandalf does kill him so that should stay too. I like the "That'll do it" line and him landing on the Dwarves. Lighten up Gando, it's a hoot. Most of the chase is padding of the highest order so out with it.

The scene with Gollum is as good as you could hope for, no complaints there. Everyone makes a big deal about the pity of Bilbo but if you read the book it's not quite like that. At first he wants to stab Gollum's eyes out (yuk!) but then decides it wouldn't be fair. Not cricket as they say in the Shire, him being visible and without a sword/letter opener. Only afterward does he feel sorry for the little creep. The luxury of pity.

We've got about one hour and forty minutes so far.

We have avoided mention of Azog up till now, but how much further can that continue? The wolves and orcs chasing them into the trees. It's fairly close to the book except for Mr. Scarface.
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on: November 14, 2018 11:37
tarcolan said:... The scene with Gollum is as good as you could hope for, no complaints there. Everyone makes a big deal about the pity of Bilbo but if you read the book it's not quite like that. ...

... We've got about one hour and forty minutes so far. ...

Especially if you read the first edition of TH. Gollum voluntarily leads Bilbo to the exit. What ended up in the early fifties second edition was a perhaps rough draft JRRT sent to GA&U, as the former saw that the first edition version just collided with the later development of the ring-as-trinket to The One Ring. JRRT was quite surprised when he saw this taken up in the second edition. The Ace Books controversy led to a third edition of TH.

1 hr 40 mins - of time cut? Just asking, though by logic 1 hr 40 mins left over would mean we're in big trouble trimming as per our defined "quest", not even having reached the end of AuP. Just my natural nitpickiness surfacing ...

Azog. *sigh* PJ, desperate for a visible main baddy, entrenched him so firmly in the movie that eliminating him would need massive re-shooting. I'm afraid we're stuck with him (from the viewpoint of canon, this kind of introduces a kind of zombie element to TH - ah, never mind! )

The trees do not fall over domino-style in the book. Again, we're stuck.
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tarcolan
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on: November 15, 2018 04:47
It doesn't say that the trees didn't fall over
I think it's possible to edit the trees bit to remove Azzy completely, so it's more like the book. That would mean there's no mention of him at all in the first film. I have plans for the second film as well.

It's not going to be easy to get the time below an hour and a half for the first film, which is pretty good. There's no strong reason to hit a particular length.

I meant to point out that in the Prologue we see Thráin exiting Erebor by the front door. Not canon. How do you fancy writing an article for the Books vs Movies section Gando? Or would your doctor advise against it?

Eagles and the Carrock, any gripes?
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