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Nordor
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Post 14 Valar
on: November 12, 2019 11:23
Does anyone know if there was a particular reason that Tolkien chose fourteen Valar? It seems, to me, to be an odd choice. The elves based their mathematics on six so twelve Valar seem a more obvious choice. Also, both the ancient Greeks and Romans had twelve great Olympians. Tolkien, being Catholic, would certainly be familiar with twelve apostles. Valar like Tulkas and Nessa seem like last minute additions. I see Tulkas being merged into Orome and Nessa with Vana, who is similar. I know that this isn't important but I'm just wondering if it was to Tolkien or if it just happened to turn out that way.
tarcolan
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on: November 16, 2019 04:09
Fourteen went to Erebor.Fourteen sat down to eat at the Maggot's farm. Other than that it doesn't seem to be significant. It's more likely he chose seven pairs of Valar.
Evil~Shieldmaiden
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on: November 16, 2019 08:35
I'm a bit rusty on the details but, if I remember my Catholicism, there are seven Archangels and they're all male. Would Tolkien have used this number to start with, and then added the same compliment of females?

Also, Tulkas came along later to challenge Melkor (the Lucifer figure) who would have been part of the original seven.

Comments, please.
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Gandolorin
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on: November 17, 2019 12:42
Well, there's the seven-day week, the seven deadly sins, Seven Laws of Noah - this one is new to me; seems to be some sort of precursor to the Ten Commandments of Moses. And Wikipedia confirms E~S to a degree: "The concept of Seven Archangels is found in some works of early Jewish literature." And in some early Christian tradition too, apparently. Ah, "complementing" the sins are seven Christian virtues, combining four cardinal virtues with three theological virues. The seven trumpets of the apocalypse as per the Book of Revelation, also mentioning the seven seals on a document or book of the apocalpse.
But as to which: none, some, many or all of these ispired JRRT - I don't recall this being mentioned in any writing known to me.
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tarcolan
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on: November 17, 2019 08:40
Sevens turn up a lot in LOTR. I made a database of all the numbers and from that -
Sevens in LOTR (book and chapter as 405 for example, book 4 chapter 5)
A quote is provided for context

signatures,101,seven signatures
yards,102,seven yards
rings,102,Seven
rings,102,Seven
rings,102,the Seven
rings,102,the Seven
dwarves,201,seven
lights,201,seven lights
rings,202,The Seven
rings,202,the Seven
years,202,seven years
rings,202,The Seven
days,203,seven days
stars,203,seven stars
stars,204,seven stars
people,206,seven
times,206,sevenfold
towers,207,seven towers
rings,207,the Seven
days,209,seventh day
nights,302,Seven nights
toes,304,seven toes
rivers,304,seven rivers
mounds,306,Seven mounds
men,310,seven kings
times,310,seven times
stars,311,seven stars
stones,311,seven stones
stars,311,seven stars
stones,311,seven stones
stones,311,seven stones
people,404,Seven companions
stones,501,Seven Stones
gates,501,Seven Gates
circles,501,seven circles
walls,501,seven walls
levels,501,seven levels
stars,501,Seven stars
stones,501,seven stones
mounds,502,and seven
days,503,seven days
leagues,505,seven leagues
men,506,seven of the king's knights
stars,506,Seven Stars
stones,507,Seven Seeing Stones
stars,604,seven glittering stars
days,605,seven days
days,605,seven days
days,605,seven days
days,605,Seven days
gems,605,seven gems
days,606,seven days
days,606,seven days
days,606,seven days
years,608,seven years
years,609,seven years




[Edited on 11/18/2019 by tarcolan]
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