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Gwenniel
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Post Amazon's Rings of Power
on: September 04, 2022 09:06
Amazon's Rings of Power is finally out. For those watching it, what do you think about it? As I write, 2 episodes are out, but feel free to come back with more thoughts past this point as more is released.

Both positive and negative opinions are welcome, just remembering that everyone has the right to enjoy/dislike/be-lukewarm-about the show without having their Tolkien-fan card revoked. Also, a reminder, just in case, to be mindful of keeping things civil, especially if we discuss real-life people (writers, actors, other CoE users...) or real-life issues like diversity/representation (which I know has sparked discussion elsewhere). General forum rules apply

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Personally, I've been very sceptical about how they treat Tolkien's legendarium, seeing it as a big budget fanfiction with questionable canon compliance. At episode 2, we still don't know that much about the story - so far it's all right (though it doesn't have me hooked yet and I'm not sure what they have planned). The new places and peoples are OK - I'm not very attached to the Southlands people but the Harfoots are growing on me. Apart from short-haired elves, I do like the visuals, the landscapes, architecture and the costumes.

SPOILERS below

As expected, my biggest problems are with the characterization of established characters. I think they did dirty on Gil-Galad by emphasising his rivalry (?) with Galadriel - sending her to the undying lands (a process that looks way too creepy) to have one less rival? I also don't know why they made Celebrimbor look so old and seem so unfamiliar with dwarves (to give Elrond something to do I guess). Galadriel's story line seems a bit dumb to me but I am for now willing to suspend my disbelief and pretend she'd fight with brawns rather than brains to avenge her family. (And to pretend that Finrod apparently died at the Nirnaeth...) Thing is, I'm willing to accept for example Arondir's or Nori's characters and stories because they are blank slates to me. But it seems unnecessary to be messing around with Celebrimbor and Galadriel and other characters whose backstory and future fate we know.
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Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: September 15, 2022 03:42
Hi Gwenniel! I appreciated your post and your reminder about civility. I have no wish to spend my time debating the issues you mentioned, and for this reason I have not read any reviews for the show or read anything about it anywhere online. Only to the Council have I come.

I love the books, the Silmarillion, AND the movies. But I knew I would have to be open minded and forgiving of fan fiction to have any chance of liking the show.

SPOILERS for Episodes 1-3 (I promise not to just complain, will get to what I like at the end.)
As it happens, your remarks reflect my feelings pretty closely. I don’t mind the fanfic in the more open to interpretation parts of the story, but the depiction of Gil-Galad an incompetent leader is my biggest problem with their story. I’m already not looking forward to meeting other book characters. By the way, I didn’t read Gil-Galad’s treatment of Galadriel as rivalry, but he does come off looking mighty unintelligent.

I can’t stand the short haired Elves. It would help if they still had some kind of Elfish air about them, but they mostly come across as very average looking humans with pointed ears. One of my family members is already sick of hearing me complain about the short hair, but I believe that not all my reasons are shallow ones.

Things I feel unsure about:

Visibly aged Celebrimbor. What was going through the heads of the show makers?? He is only a little older than Elrond, and Galadriel is older than all of them . . . The depiction of Gil-Galad made me very pessimistic for Celebrimbor. I figured the show couldn’t handle complexity and would make him out to be a 2-D either dumb or bad guy. However, the 2nd Ep made me moderately optimistic. He treated Elrond alright, didn’t seem dumb or bad, and thankfully was not portrayed as a racist against dwarves. I hope he gets to geek out with the dwarves sometime soon. (In case you haven’t guessed, I really like Celebrimbor in the books.)

What I like so far: the tourism! I like visiting all these places that I have only read and dreamed about, and they are gorgeous. Especially Numenor and Khazad Dum in its glory. I’d love to explore Ereigion more. Meeting the Harfoots was also nice.

Even if the Elrond in Moria plot line was contrived, as you said, I enjoyed Elrond’s interactions with Durin and his wife. I liked meeting dwarf women. Young Elrond from the 2nd episode is starting to grow on me.

Some of the Silmarillion imagery in the prologue got to my heart in the right way.

I’ve been wondering if we will meet Sauron in disguise, so I’ve been looking around for suspects. Halbrand was my top suspect, but Episode 3 seems to rule that out, offering an alternative explanation for his less than admirable tendencies. Do you think Halbrand is Bronwyn’s ex?? That would explain Theo’s inordinate display of rage in Episode 2 when he attacks the floor boards with a poker. At the time, I assumed he was becoming possessed by the evil sword. According to this theory (which my sister thought of first), Theo would have inherited Halbrand’s rage problem as a descendant of a Morgoth follower and the sword is a family heirloom from those days. There is a possibility that Halbrand, Theo, or both will become Ring Wraiths. The Southlands seem to be Mordor.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: September 20, 2022 03:42
Gwenniel, I should really rewatch the prologue of Episode 1 before saying anything, but I don’t think that Finrod was portrayed as dying in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. I saw him there and thought it would happen, but after that scene and after the scene of Galadriel placing the helmet on the mound, the narrator says he was killed by Sauron. So the details aren’t there (and the timeline seems a bit sketchy) but it appears that his story was not altered in this regard. Also, we don’t know that was Unnumbered Tears, although I also thought that when I saw it.

I have not rewatched yet because of lousy internet.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
An Gwiwerow
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on: September 22, 2022 08:00
I enjoyed it so far!

Spoilers may follow...

First the negative - the first episode felt like a fan film to me. A lot of the acting just felt a bit off, and maybe the camera too. Idk. What Peter Jackson did well was creating a sense of scale, not just in the landscape but in the feeling that there are thousands of people in middle earth. Every scene felt full and busy

In those early scenes with Galadriel exploring the North, I feel they would have done better with more elves under her command. 100 maybe! That would have felt more substantial. With such a high budget they could surely have hired more extras?

That being said, I felt Galadriel was excellent and the actress who played her really carried that episode. She was believable and that made up for a lot

The later episodes are much better. Numenor really worked. It's not at all how I imagined it, but it really made sense as a place. The orcs tunelling underground and slowly turning the Southlands into the Mordor we know from LOTR... I don't remember that in the books but that worked well. And the scene where the elves refuse to cut down a tree! That's one bit I think Tolkien would have appreciated.

It is really interesting to see the Southlanders, and how the elves do not do themselves any favours, basically driving them back into the arms of Sauron with their haughty attitude. It's a different side to the elves than the one we usually see, but it's a glimpse into how all the people who were not elf-friends, like Frodo and Aragorn, percieved them.

Hands down the best overall parts have been in Khazad-dûm, though. The Dwarven culture is added to in a way that is both respectful and interesting. The Dwarven characters are the most relatable so far and have genuine relationships that are important to the story. And of course, it all looks fantastic. 10/10 on that one.

[Edited on 09/22/2022 by An Gwiwerow]
swabbythewhite
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on: September 24, 2022 04:53
Well, there's almost no one here any longer, so I'll reply to my last comment. Amazon's rock-em sock-em, rude, snot-nosed Galadriel bears no resemblance to the one in the books. And then there's beardless dwarven women, short-haired elves, elves that can't fight, and poor script writing. There was magic in PJ's movies, but I find almost none of that in Amazon's. I'm very disappointed.
Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: October 04, 2022 02:21
So, what do you think? Is Adar Sauron, or is he an Uruk rights activist like he claims? Pre Episode 6 I was pretty sure he was Sauron, but post Episode 6 I really don’t know. We haven’t seen him use any powers, but he did escape twice without explanation. The first was when the tower was falling down, and the second was at the end of the episode. Unless I’m wrong about that second, not totally sure what I saw. Sauron could be hiding his powers to convince his enemies that he is a lesser villain. Maybe they will underestimate him and bring him back to Numenore. Unless Adar is actually an early orc. In that case, he may be sincere about everything he said except his opposition to Sauron (we know he didn’t kill Sauron).
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
Hanasian
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Post Rings of Power - Thoughts after 7 of 8 Episodes
on: October 09, 2022 09:28
I've now watched seven of eight episodes, and have rewatched some of the earlier episodes again, and have to say they doing a decent job with what they were given to use. As I said in another thread, once I got connected with the fact that it was going to be an elaborate fanfic, I was willing to give the series a chance.

A few thoughts...
1st impressions of Galadriel. I love child Galadriel and the interaction with the other child elves, and with Finrod. Adult Galadriel was not very likable, and the whole scene with the ice-troll was not well executed. Basically Galadriel's 'squad' gets kick-the-canned around the cave all crying and fearful, and it takes Galadriel doing PJ-OrlandoLegolas moves to singlehandedly battle and slay the troll complete with a useless sword-spin while the others seemingly are healed up and watch. That was my first 'eyeroll' moment. Subsequent watchings does not change my perception of that whole scene.

Lindon - Well presented, and it has some of both Imladris and Lothlorien aspects incorporated into it, so it gives a good prequel look at the designs of both those places as presented on the PJ LotR project.

GilGalad - the jury is still out in my head on him. I like his look and the actor presents well. Where I think the character falls down is in how he is written. I get they were tryign to work through character introductions in the first episode, but the whole seeming 'exile' of Galadriel by him was quite over the top in fanfiction. The later scene of Galadriel jumping ship so far west in the Sundering Sea was yet another eyeroll moment. Subsequent watchings does not change my perception of that scene. I get they needed a way to get Galadriel to Numenor, and that was it.

Celebrimbor - Yeah, I didn't care for the look of Celebrimbor, with teh actor having the demeanor more akin to a Roman General than the grandson smith of Feanor. Putting that aside, I think the actor is doing a good job at presenting Celebrimbor, and is a good avenue for mentioning lore. His parts have been minimal, but we will for sure seem ore of him in coming seasons.

Khazad Dum - Beautiful! The portrayal really enhances the place, and also that of the ruins we see in the PJ LotR. They got the look of the dwarves right with their masks and beards (even on some of the women), and the actors who play Durin III and Durin IV really portray and give deep feeling to their roles. The friendship between Durin IV and Elrond is awesome and it helps build Elrond's character more into that which I recognize in my reading of Lord of the Rings.

The Harfoots - If there is a storyline that is a bit outside the scope, it is the whole Harfoot story. What I would like to see is the Harfoot story be its own series. As it is, it seems a bit forced here. I get why they have added it, because everyone loves hobbits, and they fit the bill. I like their whole story, but find it a bit on the edge of the overall presentation. Of course, the identity of 'meteor man' is up in the air, and I believe it is one of the wizards. Which one remains to be seen. I had hopes it would be one of the Blue Wizards as they could do pretty much what the want with their storyline. With the look it has people lean toward being Gandalf, but I think that is too obvious of an approach, and the showrunners are good at misdirection. Right now after my viewing if episode seven, am leaning toward Radagast. This is the best part of the Harfoot story, though I am liking the various Harfoot characters. Still unsure of the three silver strangers. Many theories abound, but I'm not considering any speculation in my thoughts here.

Numenor - Yeah, I like how it presents with the scenery, though I find the men of Numenor a bit haughty and average for being such superior Edain. I have mixed feelings, though totally get, why they portray Tar Miriel as 'regent' and Pharazon as 'chancellor. They play beautifully with the politics of Numenor in a compressed timescale.

Elendil - This character is well-cast and is well acted, and has not been hampered too much by bad writing. Same goes for Isildur. I always read him as a bit if a screw-up, so the portrayal sort of fits.

Original Characters (Major)- I was skeptical of many of the additions. The addition of Earien as Isildur's sister had me worried they would erase Anorian, but was mildly satisfied when he is mentioned in a 'family moment' at the pub. So far she has had minor screen time, but will likely have more of a part in coming seasons. My suspicion is she will either side with Ar Pharazon and be killed in the drowning of Numenor, or will take ship with her brothers and father and becomes a 'refrigerator girl' on the voyage.
Arondir I was skeptical of at first, and outside the obvious forced romance between he and Bronwyn (get to her in a bit), he has encapsulated the eldar quite well. He has grown on me, and though I could predict what was going to happen to a certain degree, I like him.

Bronwyn and Theo - First up, I think the overall portrayal of the 'Southlands and southlanders is pretty good. I have always wondered about the people of Nurn who were basically serfs of Sauron in Mordor, working to feed the massive armies, little was ever said of them. I think the showrunners were quite adept at using them in this series. About Bronwyn, I like the thinking behind the character in being Theo's mother (Who's his daddy?). She is portrayed as a bit of an Eowynesque bad**s, and her knowledge of herbs and healing is a nice touch. Her bringing the orc head into the pub was classic and reminiscent of Eomer bringing the white hand head inti Theoden's halls in the PJ LotR. The whole romantic entanglement with Arondir... I get what they are tryign to do, but I have a hard time seeing it as anything other then being forced. Anyway, a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't seen all the episodes, she nearly becomes 'refrigerator girl' twice so far.
Theo - He's an enigma. I get the gut feeling he will be an important player and will likely become either one of the Nazgul or possibly the Mouth of Sauron? Speculation on my part. I said I wasn't going to do that. I like the kid, and will enjoy seeing his development.

Halbrand - Again, another enigmatic character. The likeness of the casting to Viggo gives him an overt Aragornesque vibe, though he is a bit dark. They sort of brought his story through rather quickly, but there is still a lot we don't know about him.

Show pacing - This has bene a bit rough. I find the weekly episode format does no favors to the show. I find my binge watching through the episodes makes it flow much better, and some parts of the earlier episodes make more sense in hindsight knowing what happens later.

I'm running out of time so will take this up again later. I'll leave it with some of my head-scratching moments...
• Galadriel and the Ice Troll scene
• Galadriel saying 'What am I without my sword'
• 'The Sea Is always Right'
• Galadriel jumping of the ship and expecting to swim back to Middle earth.
Eighth King of Arthedain - It was in battle that I come into this Kingship, and it will be in Battle when I leave it. There is no peace for the Realm of Arnor. Read the last stand of Arthedain in the Darkest of Days.
Gwenniel
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on: December 12, 2022 10:05
Glad to compare the perspectives of fellow CoEers. I'm back with more thoughts now that the series has ended...

Elrond in Moria turned out to be my favourite part. I was not expecting to like his friendship with Durin as much as I did, but I thought it was charmingly lighthearted while still adding to the plot (even though I'm not sure where the mithril plot itself is going to go, knowing that it's all non-canon). The Harfoots were charming in a different way, but I can't say that I was surprised by the identity reveal of the stranger, it felt like they dragged on the reveal a bit too long.

I was surprised by the Halbrand plot twist though! I thought it quite well done in the sense that they kept having Adar as a red herring and presenting Halbrand as King and him having the "natural right" to rule the Southlands. This kind of plot seemed very simple and as expected, so I'm glad they subverted it.

Given that the season ends and they only just now have their Elven rings (none for Dwarves or Men yet), it feels like they are changing Sauron's involvement in the making of them. My husband has only seen the PJ movies: he asks me about Rings of Power plot, but I have to tell him I have no idea where they are going. Same applies for parts of the Numenor plot, given the change in timeline.

Agreed with others in this thread, Galadriel is rude. She's young but not so young this can be excused. It must be the Noldo blood. She likes bossing people around - like on Numenor.

Like Hanasian, I'll finish with some stray observations:
- Agreed with others in this thread: Celebrimbor looks too old...
- Halbrand was seriously wounded yet well enough to go on a long horse-back ride? OK...
- Disa is pretty cool, but the advice she gave to Durin Jr is ominous...
- This season's Númenor plot had too slow pacing, maybe next season things heat up?
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Hanasian
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Post Rings of Power redux
on: January 01, 2024 12:58
I took the opportunity to watch through all eight episodes of Rings of Power a few weeks back, and I actually thought it was better than my initial thoughts. The weekly episode format doesn't do it any favors, and knowing some of the later episode material helps make some sense to earlier episodes. I may make the decision to wait for maybe four episodes to drop before starting to watch, then wait for four more before finishing season 2.
Eighth King of Arthedain - It was in battle that I come into this Kingship, and it will be in Battle when I leave it. There is no peace for the Realm of Arnor. Read the last stand of Arthedain in the Darkest of Days.
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