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Naneth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: November 13, 2003 09:24
Neneithel ..... this is a very nice job on the Song of Nimrodel. Here are a few suggestions for the first five stanzas. I hope you can understand the need to break this up a few times !!

Song of Nimrodel
Laer Nimrodel

An Elven-maid there was of old,
Elleth cuiant ned ered iaur,
An elven maid lived in ancient days,
>>>> days > eraid

A shining star by day:
Êl sílol, míriel ned aur:
A shining, sparkling star in daylight:

Her mantle white was hemmed with gold,
Coll nim and tîn garn 'lân valthen,
Her long white mantle had a golden hem,
>>>> white > nimp; her > dîn

Her shoes of silver-grey.
Hammad dhail dîn thiant celebren.
Clothing of her feet seemed silver.
>>>> "feet" (tail) wouldn't be lenited here, because it is part of a genitival phrase; "celebren" would probably become "celebrin" to match the fact that "clothing of feet" is a plural phrase meaning "shoes"

A star was bound upon her brows,
Êl glingant 'wennen or dhôl dîn,
A star hung bound on her head,
>>>> "was bound" is passive voice, so could be translated "gwedhannen"; "on her head" would be "bo dôl dîn" ("or" is "above")

A light was on her hair
Calad thiliant or finnel dîn
A light shone on her hair
>>>> "on" would be "bo"

As sun upon the golden boughs
Sui glawar erin gylf velthyn
As sun on the golden branches

In Lórien the fair.
Vi Lórien vain alfirin.
In beautiful, undying Lórien.

Her hair was long, her limbs were white,
And finnel dîn, nim, rainc a tail,
Long her hair, white, arms and feet,
>>>> white > nimp

And fair she was and free;
A thiant lain a bain a gael.
And she seemed free, beautiful and glimmering

And in the wind she went as light
Ah sûl alag bant allong sui
With rushing wind, she went not-heavy as
>>>> for "light" you could use "agile" (celeg)

As leaf of linden-tree.
I lais o orn ned urui.
The leaf of a tree in August.

Beside the falls of Nimrodel,
Nan lenthir lagor Nimrodel
By the swift waterfalls of Nimrodel
>>>> since we aren't sure if "nan" can also mean "by the", you might want to just use "na"

By water clear and cool,
Na nên gell lim a him,
By running water clear and cool,
>>>> "nen" wouldn't have the circumflex

Her voice as falling silver fell
Bith dîn sui celeb dannol dant
Her words as falling silver fell
>>>> I would lenit "falling" as an adjective here (dhannol) so it doesn't look like two verbs together; you need a "plural" verb here to match "words" (danner) ..... to keep the rhyme you might want to just change "bith" to "beth" or "lam" so you can keep "dannant" (not dant)

Into the shining pool.
Vi ael echadel eiliant.
In a pool making a rainbow.

Where now she wanders none can tell,
Mas revia si, allam peditha,
Where she wanders now, no tongue will say,
>>>> this isn't an interrogative sentence, so I would use "ias" for "where"

In sunlight or in shade;
Trî glawar egor gwath;
Through sunlight or shade;
>>>> lenit "sunlight" ('lawar) after "trî"

For lost of yore was Nimrodel
Nimrodel bant io anann
Nimrodel went long ago

And in the mountains strayed.
A mistant eryd chae sui mân
And wandered distant mountains like a departed spirit.
>>>> Instead of "eryd chae", it might make more sense to use "trî eryd" (strayed "through mountains"); "wandered" would be "reviant" if you wanted to use that ... then "cae" wouldn't be lenited as part of a genitival phrase.
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: November 16, 2003 01:52
Suilad, pain! Just for 'fun' here is the 'final' (I hope!) version of my Elvish Lullaby! Gwendeth

Glîr Edhellen 'nin Laes

Le linnathon 'lîr lostad hên nín.
Glîr tegitha noeth lín na hîdh.
Holo chin lín, laes dithen nín,
A lasto lam nín, le annatha îdh.

Athrathach i iant dhínen dû,
A lastathach i lalaith i laiss.
I thloss en-gwaew glîr ben-lû,
Nuin giliath telithach nan felais-in-elei 'lyss.

Moe a lend, glîr nín canel.
Elei lín ovrathar na veleth, laes nín.
Nan minuial telithach na 'ell.
Adar a Naneth le garel vi rainc vín

An Elvish Lullaby

I will sing you a lullaby my child
A song to bring you peace.
Close your eyes, little baby mine,
Listen to my voice, it will give you rest.

You will cross the night's silent bridge,
And hear the laughter of leaves.
The wind's whisper is a timeless song,
Beneath the stars are the white shores of dreams.

Soft and sweet, my song is calling.
Your dreams will be filled with love, my baby.
You will come to morning with joy.
For Father and Mother are holding you now.
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
rimbecanu
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: November 16, 2003 03:52
The Darkness

I stand alone
and I hear the subtle moan
of the silence in my sleep.

In the waking hours,
the morning bell scours.
Wake the workers keep!

And now you see
the lost keep working,
the found can't sleep,
the missing keep walking,
and the darkness,
O the darkness!
It goes way down deep.
------------------------------------------
Dúath

derin erui
I-remain alone
a laston na 'ross *voe
and I-listen to-the whisper soft
e-dîn vi lostad nîn.
of-silence in sleeping my.

vi lui ned minuial,
in times of-the early-mourning,
i aur-nell fara.
the day-bell hunts.
echuio i *gar-in-mui!
wake the house-of-the-slaves!

a si cênich
and now you-see
i randírath an-uir muda,
the wanderer-folk for-ever labor,
i *chirnenath avo losta,
the found-folk don't sleep,
i úhirnenath an-uir pada,
the not-found-folk for-ever walk,
a i *vôr,
and the darkness,
ai i *vôr!
ah the darkness!
as edledhia hae dad nûr.
it exiles far down deep.
----------------------------------------------
Notes: I used the gerund of _losta_ in the place of the noun "sleep". Many words I found had no attested translation, so in their place I improvised.

Also: I am only a beginner. I know Quenya fairly well, but I just started Sindarin about 3-4 weeks ago, so if you find many mistakes that is why. Any constructive critisizm is welcome.

Rimbecánu
Naneth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: November 16, 2003 08:05
This is very good for a beginner Rimbecanu !! Here are a few suggestions:

Dúath

derin erui
I-remain alone

a laston na 'ross *voe
and I-listen to-the whisper soft
>>>> "laston" alone would mean "I listen to", so this would read "a laston i thross voe"

e-dîn vi lostad nîn.
of-silence in sleeping my.
>>>> for "nín" you should use the acute accent

vi lui ned minuial,
in times of-the early-mourning,
>>>> "ned minuial" would mutate to "ne minuial"

i aur-nell fara.
the day-bell hunts.
>>>> "day bell" should probably be "or-nell"

echuio i *gar-in-mui!
wake the house-of-the-slaves!
>>>> you might want to use an attested word like "ortho" for "awaken"; "gar in muil" would mutate to "gar-i-muil"

a si cênich
and now you-see
>>>> "cenich" wouldn't have the circumflex on it

i randírath an-uir muda,
the wanderer-folk for-ever labor,
>>>> your verb would need to be pluralized here .... "mudar"

i *chirnenath avo losta,
the found-folk don't sleep,
>>>> I've never seen a past participle used in a class plural so I would reword this differently...... in gwaith chirnin ú-'ernir lostad (the found people are not able to sleep)

i úhirnenath an-uir pada,
the not-found-folk for-ever walk,
>>>> in gwaith ú-chirnin an-uir padar (the not found people forever walk) same thing here with the plural verb

a i *vôr,
and the darkness,

ai i *vôr!
ah the darkness!

as edledhia hae dad nûr.
it exiles far down deep.
>>>> instead of using some adjectives here, you might want to use just adverbs .... something like "edledhia na-chaered dad vi iâ" (it exiles far down in the void). If this last sentence means "far down in people's hearts", you may want to change iâ to ind.


[Edited on 17/11/2003 by Naneth]
oinklikeapig
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: November 22, 2003 11:23
This is a Christmas song we're singing in choir, and I loved the words, so thought I'd try and translate it...

Candlelight Carol
Glîr-e-Dinugalad
Song of the small-spark-light

Verse One:

How do you capture the wind on the water?
Manen gâr raedach i ’waew erin nen?
How can you-catch the wind on-the water?

How do you count all the stars in the sky?
Manen gâr genedich ’iliath vi menel?
How can you-count all-the-stars in [the] sky?

How can you measure the love of a mother,
Manen gâr genediach i veleth-en-naneth,
How can you-reckon the love-of-the-mother,

Or how can you write down a baby’s first cry?
Egor manen gâr teithach i nallad erui e-laes?
Or how can you-write the crying first of-the-baby?

Chorus:

Candlelight, angel light, firelight and star-glow
Dinugalad, rodongalad, naurgalad a gilgalad
Small-spark-light, angel-light, fire-light and star-light

Shine on his cradle till breaking of dawn.
Thano i chaust în na eriad Anor.
Light the bed his to rising [of] Sun.

Gloria, Gloria, in excelsis Deo!
Egleria, Egleria, na Eru daurwain!
Praise, Praise, to God highest!

Angels are singing; the Christ child is born.
Redyn linnol; i laes aglareb tôl.
Angels [are] singing; the baby glorious comes.

I'll post the other 2 verses later so this doesn't get too long... Comments greatly appreciated as always!

~oink~
Neneithel
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: November 22, 2003 11:53
Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I haven't checked this thread until now.


Song of Nimrodel
Laer Nimrodel

An Elven-maid there was of old,
Elleth cuiant ned ered iaur,
An elven maid lived in ancient days,
>>>> days > eraid


Yes, and iaur is ioer because it's plural.

A shining star by day:
Êl sílol, míriel ned aur:
A shining, sparkling star in daylight:

Her mantle white was hemmed with gold,
Coll nim and tîn garn 'lân valthen,
Her long white mantle had a golden hem,
>>>> white > nimp; her > dîn

Multiple lenition from a single cause is hotly debated and I'm afraid I don't believe in it.


Her shoes of silver-grey.
Hammad dhail dîn thiant celebren.
Clothing of her feet seemed silver.
>>>> "feet" (tail) wouldn't be lenited here, because it is part of a genitival phrase; "celebren" would probably become "celebrin" to match the fact that "clothing of feet" is a plural phrase meaning "shoes"


I see what you mean, but clothing isn't plural, whatever part of the body it dresses. Leniting genetives is something I keep doing. I'll have to watch that.


A star was bound upon her brows,
Êl glingant 'wennen or dhôl dîn,
A star hung bound on her head,
>>>> "was bound" is passive voice, so could be translated "gwedhannen"; "on her head" would be "bo dôl dîn" ("or" is "above")

I don't like assuming "to be" I only do it if I can find no other way. I would rather risk a guessed conjugation than leave it out in a poem. Why is erin, which I thought comes from or, "on the" not "above the"? Just wondering. I'll change it to bo, just to be sure.

A light was on her hair
Calad thiliant or finnel dîn
A light shone on her hair
>>>> "on" would be "bo"

Yes, if or and erin are not related

As sun upon the golden boughs
Sui glawar erin gylf velthyn
As sun on the golden branches

In Lórien the fair.
Vi Lórien vain alfirin.
In beautiful, undying Lórien.

Her hair was long, her limbs were white,
And finnel dîn, nim, rainc a tail,
Long her hair, white, arms and feet,
>>>> white > nimp

That comes of not checking words I think I know!

And fair she was and free;
A thiant lain a bain a gael.
And she seemed free, beautiful and glimmering

And in the wind she went as light
Ah sûl alag bant allong sui
With rushing wind, she went not-heavy as
>>>> for "light" you could use "agile" (celeg)

Good idea. I got round it in the end by changing the line.


As leaf of linden-tree.
I lais o orn ned urui.
The leaf of a tree in August.

Beside the falls of Nimrodel,
Nan lenthir lagor Nimrodel
By the swift waterfalls of Nimrodel
>>>> since we aren't sure if "nan" can also mean "by the", you might want to just use "na"

Na i lenthir sounds bad. I'll risk nan

By water clear and cool,
Na nên gell lim a him,
By running water clear and cool,
>>>> "nen" wouldn't have the circumflex

Where that came from, I have no idea. I'm over-fond of accents, I think

Her voice as falling silver fell
Bith dîn sui celeb dannol dant
Her words as falling silver fell
>>>> I would lenit "falling" as an adjective here (dhannol) so it doesn't look like two verbs together; you need a "plural" verb here to match "words" (danner) ..... to keep the rhyme you might want to just change "bith" to "beth" or "lam" so you can keep "dannant" (not dant)

I messed that up completely, didn't I? I'll have to use beth

Into the shining pool.
Vi ael echadel eiliant.
In a pool making a rainbow.

Where now she wanders none can tell,
Mas revia si, allam peditha,
Where she wanders now, no tongue will say,
>>>> this isn't an interrogative sentence, so I would use "ias" for "where"

But wouldn't that mean in the place where she wanders? Implying that where she is, nobody talks?

In sunlight or in shade;
Trî glawar egor gwath;
Through sunlight or shade;
>>>> lenit "sunlight" ('lawar) after "trî"


Yes, another idiotic mistake!

For lost of yore was Nimrodel
Nimrodel bant io anann
Nimrodel went long ago

And in the mountains strayed.
A mistant eryd chae sui mân
And wandered distant mountains like a departed spirit.
>>>> Instead of "eryd chae", it might make more sense to use "trî eryd" (strayed "through mountains"); "wandered" would be "reviant" if you wanted to use that ... then "cae" wouldn't be lenited as part of a genitival phrase.


Yes, should be reviant, but hae is an adjective, so needs to be lenited.

Thanks for the advice. Here is what I have now, with recent revisions and the changes here.

Laer Nimrodel

Elleth cuiant ned eraid ioer
Êl hílol, míriel ned aur
Coll nimp and tîn garn 'lân valthen
Hammad tail dîn thiant celebren.

Êl glingant 'wennen bo dhôl dîn,
Calad thiliant bo finnel dîn
Sui glawar erin gylf velthyn
Vi Lórien vain alfirin.

And finnel dîn, nimp rainc a tail,
A thiant lain a bain a gael.
Ah sûl alag bant hwiniol sui
I lass o orn ned Urui.

Nan lenthir legyr Nimrodel
Na nen gell lim a him
Beth dîn sui celeb dannol dannant
Vi ael echadel eiliant.

Mas e revia si, allam peditha,
Trî 'lawar egor gwath
Nimrodel bant io anann
A reviant eryd chae sui mân

I gair edhellen vi hûb vith
Di ram-en-aeglir dhaer
Darthant anann pen glass
Nef aear asgar celair.

Sûl ne daw vi erdhyn fuir
Eriant a nallant brui,
A hant i gair o felais vîn
Athraearon 'wathui.

Na vinuial palan-gennir,
In eryd dhennyl vith
Athan i nen duiol i hant
Gwing i harnant sui brith.

Amroth cennin i falas chall
Si tofn athan aearon,
A pent thrach erin gair i lunt
O Nimrodel haeron.

Ned eraid ioer tunc in edhil
Brannon lant a orn
Ir malthen gallen gylf echuir
Vi eryn-e-mallorn

O chair nan aear cennir e camp,
Sui pilinn o thang radol,
A camp vi nen nûr a celeg,
Sui gwael nimp reviol .

I hûl vi fast dîn lain thuiant,
A sill i falf vregol
E palan-gennir bell a bain
Norol sui alph lodol.

Dân uin annûn ú-dellin beth,
A erin falas hen
Edhil ú-'ernir hiniath.
Amroth bant vi dinen.


Neneithel
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 04, 2003 02:28
I wrote and translated this poem today - I KNOW there are corrections. Any help is gratefully appreciated!

Can the days grow any shorter?
Galathar in eraid andent?
Will-they-grow the days shorter?

Can the nights grow any longer?
Galathar i fuin anand?
Will-they-grow the nights longer?

Where are you, who holds my heart?
Mas le, i gâr ‘ûr nín?
Where [are] you, who holds heart mine?

Lost and alone, I cast my eyes above me.
Gwannen a erui, tirion or nin.
Lost and alone, I-gaze above me.

Lights shining in a velvet night.
Celaid síliol vi fuin vorn.
Lights shining in [a] night dark.

Twinkling sparks, they give me hope.
Gíl thiliol, annar enni amdir.
Sparks twinkling, they-give to-me hope.

Soft moonlight flows around me.
Ithil-galad voe os-hiria nin.
Moon-light soft around-flows me.

* not sure about 'os-hiria'.

A warmth grows, filling my soul.
Galon laug, pathra faer nín.
I-grow warm, it-fills soul mine.

* not sure about this either. grrr!

Wherever you are, I will find you.
Iad le, radathon.
Whither you [are], i-will-find-a-way.

* I think there is a neo-sindarin verb for find: 'hir'. Would that be better?

And in the stars, I see it will be soon.
A vi ngiliath, as cenithon ne lû thent.
And in-the stars, it I-will-see in [a] time short.

* not entirely sure about the second part of this either.

Am I getting rusty??? :dizzy:

[Edited on 16/12/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 06, 2003 06:54
Suilad Gwendeth! Some short answers for now... there are some other things I'd like to discuss, like your use of "gala-", but can't do so now

Lights shining in a velvet night.
Celaid hillin vi fuin vorn.
Lights shining in [a] night dark.

* Is 'síla-' (shine) acceptable? I thought I had seen somewhere it was recommended for 'moonlight' only.

That sounds like something I may have said... I wouldn't use if for 'sunlight', but it looks fine to me to use it here. But I think you need the active participle "sílol" instead of the passive.

Twinkling sparks, they give me hope.
Gíl thiliennin, annar enni amdir.
Sparks twinkling, they-give to-me hope.

Same here, would use active participle "thiliol".

Wherever you are, I will find you.
Iad le, radathon.
Whither you [are], i-will-find-a-way.

* I think there is a neo-sindarin verb for find: 'hir'. Would that be better?

Personally, I think so, because I doubt if "rada-" can be used in this sense.

And in the stars, I see it will be soon.
A ‘nin ngiliath, as cenithon ne lû thent.
And in-the stars, it I-will-see in [a] time short.

Maybe "vi"?
Bellenion
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 13, 2003 05:47
There is a poem I once saw in someone’s signature. And I try to translate it into Sindarin:

Thûl en-Eru
Trî aearon Giliath, prestol na ’Waew (Note-1)
Rimmol nan uin bain vi Amar
Vi ered, aeair, a toer dorthon vi said bain (Note-2)
Estel Nestad egor Harnad?
Erui na cheniad gerim gared ‘uir a throe ‘wîn (Note-3)

Note-1: presta- na...: to become..., to change to...(NS., Neo Sindarin)
Note-2: vi i haid bain: in all the place, *everywhere (NS.)
Note-3: gâr ‘úr a thraw ‘wîn: to have a new heart and body

Image

English version:
Breathing of the God
Through the ocean of the Star-host, becoming a Wind
Blowing to all the creatures in the World
In mountains, seas, and forests I exist everywhere
Hope is Cure or Hurt?
Only by understanding can we evolve.

Suil!

[Edited on 1/1/2004 by Bellenion]

[Edited on 1/1/2004 by Bellenion]
Naneth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 16, 2003 12:26
This is a really good translation Bellenion !! The only thing I would change is the plural of "gwain", which would be "gwîn" (lenited to 'wîn). You have a lot of nice rewording in this !!
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 31, 2003 05:30
Suilad! I have been working on translating this poem for some time. With the advent of 'mela-' for 'to love' (albeit 'love as a friend') I think I've got something that works ok. 'Gerich veleth nín' did just NOT seem to 'flow'.

Anyway, this is an attempt at translating Elizabeth Barret Browning's Sonnet 43:

How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
Ianen le melon? Genedithon dhembith nín.
How [do] you I-love? I-will-count answers mine.

** 'dembith' (dambeth, pl) is the DO, correct? And would it be 'ianen' or 'manen'?

I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
Le melon nan nûr a land a taen
You I-love to-the deep[ness] and broad[ness] and height

My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
Faer nín ratha, ir ú-gennen
Soul mine reaches, when I [am] un-seen

** 'ratha-' Neo-Sindarin 'to reach'

For the ends of Being and ideal Grace
‘Nin mith Cuinad a Bronwe ú-brestannen
for-the ends [of] being Alive and Faith un-affected

I love thee to the level of every day's
Le melon nan bathred aur bain
You I-love to-the fullness [of] day all

** 'every day' is 'stumping' me here, truly! The sense doesn't seem quite right for using 'daily'. grrr!

Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light
Baur hîdhwain, na anor a na galar-galad
Need most-quiet, by sun and by lamp-light

** I cheated and used 'na galar-galad' because I wasn't quite sure if 'calar-galad' would or would NOT be lenited after the 'and'.

I love thee freely, as men strive for Right;
Le melon leithaden, sui edain mudar am Maudh theninen
You I-love freely, as men labor for Judgement true

** 'leitha-' Neo-Sindarin 'to free, loose'. I do NOT think it's quite the right 'sense'. Perhaps ú- with baugla- (for without constraint), or perhaps using 'edra-' (open, i.e. 'openly') would be better?

I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise
Le melon ú-brestannen, sui dregar o Egleriad
You I-love un-affected[ly], as they-flee from Praise

I love thee with the passion put to use
Le melon nan anírad iuithon
You I-love with-the desiring I-use

In my old griefs, and with my childhood's faith
Vi noeth vruin nín, ah estel sui hên
In woes old mine, and trust like [a] child

I love thee with a love I seemed to lose
Le melon ah meleth awarthannen
You I-love with [a] love abandoned

With my lost saints - I love the with the breath,
Ah sedryn 'wennin nín - le melon nan thûl,
With faithful-ones lost mine - you I-love with-the breath,

** 'gwannen/gwennin' Neo-Sindarin 'lost'

Smiles, tears, of all my life! - and, if God choose,
Lalaith, nîr, o chuil bân nín! - ah, ai Eru aníra,
Laughter, tears, of life all mine! - and, if God desires,

I shall but love thee better after death
Le melathon anvae ab gurth
You I-will-love more-well (better) after death

** does an+mae work?

Comments and corrections desperately needed!!!


[Edited on 31/12/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 31/12/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Bellenion
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: January 01, 2004 04:53
This is a really good translation Bellenion !! The only thing I would change is the plural of "gwain", which would be "gwîn" (lenited to 'wîn). You have a lot of nice rewording in this !!


Thank you! Naneth! Sorry for seeing your comment till now.

Happy New Year
Iavas
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: January 02, 2004 06:26
Suilad Gwen! Here are a few ideas!

How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
Ianen le melon? Genedithon dhembith nín.
How [do] you I-love? I-will-count answers mine.

** 'dembith' (dambeth, pl) is the DO, correct? And would it be 'ianen' or 'manen'?

I would suggest "manen" as it is actually a question. The DO is correct, but it's derived from primitive "nd" so "nembith".

I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
Le melon nan nûr a land a taen
You I-love to-the deep[ness] and broad[ness] and height

We translated this in another thread in the "pre-love-verb" period! But here are some comments that apply here as well! "nûr" is an adj. and I feel you need a noun here. I suggested "deepest place" and I do so again. "land" is also an adj. and I think we need another noun. I suggested "ûr" because it's a noun. Hmmm..Just noticed a typo in my old post. I'll have to fix that! Anyway, this is the way I might word this: Le melon nan had núrwain a ûr a taen...

For the ends of Being and ideal Grace
‘Nin mith Cuinad a Bronwe ú-brestannen
for-the ends [of] being Alive and Faith un-affected

Don't you think we might see 'ni mith" instead?

I love thee to the level of every day's
Le melon nan bathred aur bain
You I-love to-the fullness [of] day all

** 'every day' is 'stumping' me here, truly! The sense doesn't seem quite right for using 'daily'. grrr!

How about just saying "to the day's most quiet need" or " to all day's (pl) most quiet needs (also plural)? I don't think you should pluralize the adjective if the noun isn't also plural.

Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light
Baur hîdhwain, na anor a na galar-galad
Need most-quiet, by sun and by lamp-light

** I cheated and used 'na galar-galad' because I wasn't quite sure if 'calar-galad' would or would NOT be lenited after the 'and'.

I think if it simply followed "a" then it would not be lenited.

I love thee freely, as men strive for Right;
Le melon leithaden, sui edain mudar am Maudh theninen
You I-love freely, as men labor for Judgement true

** 'leitha-' Neo-Sindarin 'to free, loose'. I do NOT think it's quite the right 'sense'. Perhaps ú- with baugla- (for without constraint), or perhaps using 'edra-' (open, i.e. 'openly') would be better?

I like the "without constraint" idea better myself. You don't need the adjectival ending on "thenin" as it's already an adjective.

I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise
Le melon ú-brestannen, sui dregar o Egleriad
You I-love un-affected[ly], as they-flee from Praise

I think I would recommend the gerund rather than the past participle. More like the idea above.

I love thee with the passion put to use
Le melon nan anírad iuithon
You I-love with-the desiring I-use

Maybe reconstructed "guin" for "with the".

I love thee with a love I seemed to lose
Le melon ah meleth awarthannen
You I-love with [a] love abandoned

I think, even though the new DF lists "ah" as "with", I don't personally feel it can be used in this way. We discussed this one time and talked about it's maybe meaning "with", but I don't feel it can be "with" in any other than the comitative sense. I also feel that the now confirmed etymological relationship with "a, ar" supports this. For cases like the one you have here, I would still use "na". So, I would suggest "na veleth".

With my lost saints - I love the with the breath,
Ah sedryn 'wennin nín - le melon nan thûl,
With faithful-ones lost mine - you I-love with-the breath,

** 'gwannen/gwennin' Neo-Sindarin 'lost'

Again, I would use "na" and, maybe, reconstructed "guin" for "with the".

I shall but love thee better after death
Le melathon anvae ab gurth
You I-will-love more-well (better) after death

** does an+mae work?

I can't remember who it was, but I think someone else used that coinage for "better" as well. I think we'd see "ab ngurth" though. To avoid that awkward phonetic tongue twister, maybe "ab 'wannath" even though "gwannath" is Noldorin and gurth is Sindarin. I think since your goal here is something phoneticallly pleasing rather than technical accuracy and we've already got a lot of Noldorin, Sindarin, and Neo mixed in, that would be what I would suggest.
Tanquessiel
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: January 04, 2004 11:00
Hello there, I'm very new at learning Sindarin, but I need a translation of the Lay of Luthien for a story I'm writing. If someone could possibly tell me where I could go to find a translation I would be very grateful. I've been searching for one for quite some time now, but I have yet to find a translation at all, never mind one that seems accurate. So, if someone could help me out I'd be forever in their debt! Thank you!:heart:
Bellenion
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: January 10, 2004 05:33
This is not a poem. But I think, since it is a form of translation, I had better not start a new thread

http://bellenion.o-f.com/NewYearS.html

Or try the mirrow: http://home.kimo.com.tw/bellenion/NewYearE.html

Hope you will enjoy it!

Suil!

ps. Oh! Yes! The page is Unicode(UTF- encoded. Make sure you have adjusted the encription

[Edited on 12/1/2004 by Bellenion]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 08, 2004 04:29
This is a short 'ballad' I wrote for a story I'm writing. It is supposed to be in remembrance of all the 'unknowns' who gave their lives in defense of Middle Earth in the various wars against Sauron. It is (however) 'unspecific' enough that it could refer to any/all soldier(s) who have done so for their own lands. Anyway, I've attempted to translate it into Sindarin. I'm SURE there are corrections needed! Le hannon!

Ballad for Unknown Heroes:
Glîr 'ni chellyn Al-estennin:
Lay for the Heros Unnamed:


On bloody fields lie scattered,
Bo perth egerwaen peliar,
On fields blood-stained [are] spread,

the bones of those who fought.
i thraw barch o maethyr i maethanner.
the flesh dry of warriors who fought.

And who were they who battled,
A man er i dagranner,
And who [were] they who battled [made war],

that others might live free?
i pân cuiathar pen bauglad?
that all will live without oppression?
==

Unknown, unnamed, they gave their lives,
Al-rîn, al-enith, oner guil rîn,
Without remembrance, without names, they gave lives theirs,

that you and I might live.
i le ah im broniatham.
that you and I will endure.

And who will sing their names to the stars,
A man linnatha enith rîn nan giliath,
And who will sing names theirs to the stars,

in greatful thanks and praise?
a chennaid ah egleriad dhaer?
With thanks and praise great?
==

The heroes who died without a thought,
I chellyn i gwanner pen nauth,
The heroes who died without [a] thought,

of self, or life, - or honor, are gone.
o rîn, egor cuil, - egor egleriad, gwanner.
of remembrance, or life, - or praise, are gone.

And who will know what they have done,
A man istatha i cherth rîn,
And who will have knowledge of the deeds theirs,

and remember the lives they gave?
a gared rîn i chuil oner?
and have remembrance of the lives they gave?
==

Their souls are free from pain and grief,
Faer rîn leithiar o naeg a nîr,
Souls theirs [are] set free from pain and weeping,

so ours might carry on.
i cuil vín broniathar.
That lives ours will endure.

And will you now with thankful heart,
A si an ngúr channadui,
And now with [a] heart thankful,

join with my song of praise?
erthach an nglîr egleriol nín?
unite with song [of] praising mine?
==

The ones who died deserve our thanks,
Adhren i gwanner annam chennaid vín,
To them who died we give thanks ours,

our love and honor, too.
meleth vín ah egleriaid rem.
love ours and praises numerous.

And in your deepest heart of hearts,
A mi gúr núrwain lín,
And in heart deepest yours,

will you think of them once more?
nauthathach adhren ad?
will you think to-them again?
==

A thousand thousand warriors brave,
Menig venig maethyr vill,
[a] Thousand thousand warriors strong,

from every race have bled.
o erdh bain oner hereg.
from realms all gave blood.

And you who walk the paths of life,
A le i padar guil
And you who walk a path [of] life,

do you know what they have done?
istach gerth rîn?
do you have knowledge [of] deeds theirs?
==

Remember now with honor and glory,
Reno si an egleriad a gellam,
Remember now with praise and jubilation,

these unknown soldiers true.
i maethyr al-estennin thenin.
the warriors unnamed true.

Will you sing with me, an humble bard,
Linnathach anim, glirdan al-edregol,
Will you sing with me, [a] bard un-especial,

in thanks for their sacrifice?
a chennaid a cherth chim rîn?
with thanks for deeds abiding theirs?



[Edited on 8/3/2004 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 9/3/2004 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 9/3/2004 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 12, 2004 11:21
Gwendeth, a beautiful poem as always from you, and on a very serious matter. I have some suggestions for you:

On bloody fields lie scattered,
Bo perth egerwaen peliar,
On fields blood-stained [are] spread,

For "spread" you need the passive participle (peliennin if we use plural for the flesh of many) - the bones don't spread themselves, but are spread.

the bones of those who fought.
i thraw barch o maethyr i maethanner.
the flesh dry of warriors who fought.

For 'of' I'd use 'in' or just simple word order.

that others might live free?
i pân cuiathar pen bauglad?
that all will live without oppression?

I don't think it's possible to use the relative pronoun "i" for "that" in this sense. Maybe it would be possible to reword and use 'nin... 'for the life of all without oppression'?

of self, or life, - or honor, are gone.
o rîn, egor cuil, - egor egleriad, gwanner.
of remembrance, or life, - or praise, are gone.

Passive participle for "are gone"... gwennin.

And who will know what they have done,
A man istatha i cherth rîn,
And who will have knowledge of the deeds theirs,

and remember the lives they gave?
a gared rîn i chuil oner?
and have remembrance of the lives they gave?


"have remembrance" is future tense though "will" doesn't have to be repeated in English, so I'd use "geritha". I'd also use "o" for "of" and slip in a relative "i", like this: "a geritha rîn oh i chuil i oner" (and will have remembrance concerning the lives that they gave)

And will you now with thankful heart,
A si an ngúr channadui,
And now with [a] heart thankful,

For "with a heart" I'd use "na 'ûr"... also "na" for "with" in the other verses.

And you who walk the paths of life,
A le i padar guil
And you who walk a path [of] life,

I suggest adding "i râd" for "the path".
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 12, 2004 11:43
Le hannon, Mal!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And you who walk the paths of life,
A le i padar guil
And you who walk a path [of] life,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I suggest adding "i râd" for "the path".

I had very much debated adding 'i râd', (which is what I PREFERRED), but since 'pada-' was to 'walk a path or track', I wasn't sure. *shrugs*, lol!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 12, 2004 11:50
"pada-" is translated just "to walk" in DragonFlame, so I don't think it would be a crime to add "râd".
And even if the verb can in itself be translated "to walk a path", I don't think that the "built-in" noun is "strong" enough to form a genitive phrase with "cuil".
Megilwen
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 12, 2004 01:38
Erm...I'm kind of new to this kind of thing, but here's some of the poems that I've translated...and written...

Arat, astaldo ava ilye intyale
An u-deloth ilye Endor dagorerye.
Aistarye gurth, ve i-firn u-aistarye
U-aran, tiermet astaldoime.
Kano Gondorello! I-atan na astaldo ve
Faramir ne hi tuile re
Horte, egla ar u-almarea, morniesse
Nerye varna, u-utuverye este.
Quellerya tules gurthesse atarya
Cuirith atan hain echer runya.
Ar Mithrandir tule, are atan eche
Man tule coi Aragornrya quare.

I can't really remember the exact translation...but here's the non-Quanya (or Sindarin...can't remember which one most of it is) version.

Noble, honourable beyond all thought
For the freedom of all Middle-Earth he fought
To die for his cause he was never afraid
Although not a king, he had showed he was brave
Captain of Gondor! there are none more brave
Than Faramir was on that early spring day
Sent into peril unthanked and unblessed
Although he was saved he can never find rest.
He almost perished on Denethor's pyre
To his living flesh they almost set a fire
But then Gandalf came and he rescued the man
Who was brought back to life by King Elessar's hand.

My friend keeps yelling at me not to use pronounial suffixes when the subjest is already named...tried to fix them but there still maybe some...

Namarie,
Mac
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 12, 2004 06:56
And even if the verb can in itself be translated "to walk a path", I don't think that the "built-in" noun is "strong" enough to form a genitive phrase with "cuil".

I agree with you totally on that, which is why I really debated it!

Le hannon, ad, Mal!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 13, 2004 08:50

I can't really remember the exact translation...but here's the non-Quanya (or Sindarin...can't remember which one most of it is) version.

Megilwen, this is a very nice poem! But the Elvish translation looks like a quite odd mix of Quenya and Sindarin, though most of it is Quenya. Please post it in the Quenya forum if you want to have your translation commented, and please also include a literal translation so that we can be sure of what you want to say (as the translation is sometimes rather different from the English original).
Pendhínen
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: March 30, 2004 04:11
Suilad mellyn!

I'm a beginner, but I've attempted to translate the song "My Immortal".... any comments or corrections would be greatly appreciated. =)

My Immortal
Alfirin nín
Immortal Mine

I'm so tired of being here
Im alveren sí
I (am) not-happy here

Suppressed by all my childish fears
echais chinui(?) pain nín bauglannar nin
fears childish (?) all mine oppressed me

And if you have to leave,
ah ae boe anle gwanno,
and if to-need for you to-depart,

I wish that you would just leave
Aníron gwannathach,
I wish you-will-depart,

your presence still lingers here
dae lín dortha sí
shadow yours it-stays here

And it won't leave me alone
a dae lín ú-gwannatha o nin
shadow yours it-will-not-depart from me

These wounds won't seem to heal,
hery nín ú-nestathar
wounds mine they-will-heal-not

This pain is just too real
naeg sen thenin
pain this (is) true

There's just too much that time cannot erase
Ennin ú-degir
years they-slay-not

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
Ir le níniel mabannon nîr lín pain
When you (were) tearfulI-took tears yours all

When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
Ir cannach maethannon echais lín pain
When you cried-out I fought fears yours all

And I held your hand through all of these years
A mabannon gamlín trî ennin hin pain
And I-grasped hand yours through years these all

You still have all of me
Gerich pân o nin
You-have all of me

You used to captivate me
Gwend nin
You-bound me

By your resonating light
na gail lín
By bright-light yours

Now I'm bound by the life you left behind
Si im naud na i guil awarthannach
Now I (am) bound by the life you-abandoned

Your face it holds,
Thîr lín geli,
Face yours it-holds,

My once pleasant dreams
Min lû ýl vaer nín
One time dreams good mine

Your voice, it chased away
Pith lín, degir
Words yours, they-slew

All the sanity in me
Idhor pân vi nin
Thoughfulness all in me

These wounds won't seem to heal
hery nín ú-nestathar
wounds mine they-will-heal-not

This pain is just too real
naeg sen thenin
pain this (is) true

There's just too much that time cannot erase
Ennin ú-degir
Years they-slay-not

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
Ir le níniel mabannon nîr lín pain
When you (were) tearful I-took tears yours all

When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
I cannach maethannon echais lín pain
when you cried-out I-fought fears yours all

And I held your hand through all of these years
A mabannon gam lín trî ennin hin pain
And I-grasped hand yours through years these all

You still have all of me
Gerich pân o nin
You-have all of me

I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone,
Aníron pedi enni gwannannach(?),
I-desire to-say to me you-departed

But though you're still with me,
dan le na nin,
but you (are) with me,

I've been alone all along
Im erui annan
I (was) alone long

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears,
Ir le níniel mabannon nîr lín pain,
When you (were) tearful I-took tears yours all

When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears,
Ir cannach maethannon echais lín pain,
When you-cried-out I-fought fears yours all

And I held your hand through all of these years,
A mabannon gam lín trî ennin hin pain
And I-grasped hand yours through years these all

You still have all of me
Gerich pân o nin
You-have all of me


NOTES--

chinui=plural of henui, meant as an adjective of "child" using 'ui' ending. Is this possible?

gwannannach= "you-departed", from gwanna + '-nt'='nn' + ch="you" ending. Should it be shortened or otherwise changed?

Thanks!
Pendhínen
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: April 02, 2004 07:38
Suilad, Pendhínen! Here's just a few comments that might help - such as they are... Hopefully I haven't led you astray...

Suppressed by all my childish fears
echais chinui(?) pain nín bauglannar nin
fears childish (?) all mine oppressed me

>>Bauglannen echais bain chinui nín
Oppressed [by] fears all childish mine
(chinui seems fine to me…

And if you have to leave,
ah ae boe anle gwanno,
and if to-need for you to-depart,

>> ah ae allen gwannad
(I'd use the gerund form…

And it won't leave me alone
a dae lín ú-gwannatha o nin
shadow yours it-will-not-depart from me

>> Just lenit: 'ú-'wannatha'

There's just too much that time cannot erase
Ennin ú-degir
years they-slay-not

>> I'd use 'idhrinn' instead of 'ennin' which is a Valian year (i.e. a 'long' year)

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
Ir le níniel mabannon nîr lín pain
When you (were) tearfulI-took tears yours all

>> Ir nallannech derithan aen nîr bain lín
when you-cried I would stop/halt tears all yours
(although I hate using aen…

When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
Ir cannach maethannon echais lín pain
When you cried-out I fought fears yours all

>> Ir cennich maethannon echais bain lín
When you cried out I fought fears all yours

And I held your hand through all of these years
A mabannon gamlín trî ennin hin pain
And I-grasped hand yours through years these all

>> A gernin gam lín trî idhrinn bain hain
(I just personally like gar for hold… but the past tense would be mabannen)

You still have all of me
Gerich pân o nin
You-have all of me

>> As si gerich bân o nin
(as si - to now neo-sindarin 'still')

You used to captivate me
Gwend nin
You-bound me

>> Gwennich nin
(poetic past tense of 'gwedh')

Now I'm bound by the life you left behind
Si im naud na i guil awarthannach
Now I (am) bound by the life you-abandoned

>> Si gwennen na i guil awarthannech
Now [I am] bound by the life you-abandoned

Your face it holds,
Thîr lín geli,
Face yours it-holds,

>> gâr

My once pleasant dreams
Min lû ýl vaer nín
One time dreams good mine

>> Na-erui elei nín maer
once (neo-sindarin) dreams mine [were] good

Your voice, it chased away
Pith lín, degir
Words yours, they-slew
>> dengir (past tense plural)

All the sanity in me
Idhor pân vi nin
Thoughfulness all in me

>> lenit 'pân > bân, and you just might use 'nín' (mine) instead of vi (mi) nin

I've tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone,
Aníron pedi enni gwannannach(?),
I-desire to-say to me you-departed

>> Aníron peded (or perhaps beded, lenited) anim le gwannech
I-desire to-say to-myself you-departed ('le' isn't totally necessary, I think, but kind of sounds like it should be there)

But though you're still with me,
dan le na nin,
but you (are) with me,

>> Dân as si, le sí annin
But still (to now) you [a]re here with-me

I've been alone all along
Im erui annan
I (was) alone long

>> Gernin guil ereb na-den si
I have had [a] life lonely until (neo-sindarin) now

(just a possible option)

gwendeth


"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
vampira0310
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 01, 2011 11:55
Does anyone know to translate the quote from Galadriel: "May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out." ?

You would be sooooooooooo gratefully appreciated!

Thank you!
Dracovana
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: December 28, 2011 11:38
I need this poem to be translated please =]
A Lover's Voice
Your voice sends me into a paralysis that I cannot understand,
Like a spider's venom, or even its web, binding me in an everlasting allure, never to escape, a voice that I am unable to equal no matter how hard I try,
A voice that could rival even that of Gabriel's, each word spoken as a symphony to my ears, a voice that could calm the wildest of seas, or the most fearsome of storms.
LuthientheTinuviel
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: June 28, 2012 11:49
Has anyone translated the old walking song into Sindarin? Specifically this part:

"Still round the corner there may wait a new road or a secret gate; and though I oft have passed them by, a day will come at last when I shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun. "
Naruvir
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: July 14, 2012 01:02
Ryzard Derdzinski made an attempt:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/27349

Bear in mind that his translation incorporates two particularly interesting extrapolations:

- mutation applies to prepositions (which he probably derived this from mi > vi)
- aen resumes the role of a modal particle for 'maybe' or 'perhaps'.
ElfDict.com - an extensive dictionary dedicated to the languages of Middle Earth!
Galadivren
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: July 18, 2012 02:16
This is probably where it completely messes up my formatting from Word...

Notes:

1) I'll list my reconstructions at the end
2) I use a(dh) for 'and'
3) I don't attempt to preserve rhyme (or especially metre) in poetry, I prefer to translate the meaning as closely as possible.

Hae or i Chithaeglir ring
Nad gedyr nûr a 'aith vrûn
Boe ledhim ú-ab vinuial
An chired i gôl 'ael lúthad

i Chedhyd io anann echennir luith veleg
Ir daim danner sui nelladel
Mi haid nûr ias naid mor lostar
Mi thaim raudh nuin eryd

An aran iaur a chîr edhellen
Mîr dinnad mallen ennas
Echedir a galad gedir
An dored mi vîr bo veth crist

Bo chigil geleb glingir
In elin edlothiad, bo rî glingir
i Amlug-naur bo angwedh norn
Rigir i galad od Ithil adh Anor

Hae or i Chithaeglir ring
Nad gedyr nûr a 'aith vrûn
Boe ledhim ú-ab vinuial
An leuthad i gôl vîn ú-rínad and

Suil echedir ennas andin
A 'ennil od gôl; ias ú venn rosta
Ennas caedanner and; a laer laew
Linnant ú-lernen adh Edain egor Edhil

I thŷn noner laustad erin daen
In gwaew noner painad min fuin
I naur non caran, den lachad pelia
In yrn sui gelair dostar adh galad

I nill nellanner min dum
A binn am-dirnir adh thîr nimp
I rûth en-Amlug braig athan naur
Dosta i veraid dîn a mair vîw

I orod ospad nuin Ithil
I Chedhyd, lernir i paded od manadh
Dregar i tham dîn an dhannad 'wannad
Nu i dail dîn, nuin Ithil

Hae or i Chithaeglir vuil
Nad gedyr nûr a 'aith dhofn
Boe ledhim ú-ab vinuial
An vabad i 'ennil vîn a gôl od den!

-------------------------------------
Far over the Misty Mountains cold
To dungeons deep and caverns old
We must leave before dawn
To seek the pale enchanted gold

The Dwarves long ago made mighty spells
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In deep places where dark things sleep
In hollow halls beneath the mountains

For ancient king and Elvish lord
In that place glinting golden jewels
They fashioned, and light they caught
For hiding in jewels on end of sword (as 'hilt' doesn't exist)

On silver necklaces they hung
The flowering stars, on crowns they hung
The dragon-fire on twisted chain
They wreathed the light of sun and moon

Far over the Misty Mountains cold
To dungeons deep and caverns old
We must leave before dawn
To pick up our long forgotten gold

Goblets they fashioned there for them
And harps of gold; where no man delves
There they lay long; and many a song
Was sung not heard by Men or Elves

The pines were rushing on the height
The winds were moaning in the night
The fire was red; it flaming spread
The trees like lamps, burned with light

The bells were ringing in the dale
And men looked up with pale faces
The dragon's anger fierce beyond fire
Burned their towers and frail homes

The mountain smoked beneath the moon
The Dwarves, they heard the stepping of doom
They fled their hall to fall dying
Beneath his feet, beneath the moon

Far over the Misty Mountains drear
To dungeons deep and caverns gloomy
We must leave before dawn
To take our harps and gold from him!

--------------------------------------

Reconstructions (or unusual words, some of them are from PE17)

Rig- = to wreathe
Ledh- = to depart, travel, go
Caeda- = to lay (down)
Lar- = to hear
Lausta- = to make a rushing noise (i.e trees, not people)
Paina- = to wail, moan (N.B - this one is far more theoretical than I'd like, it comes from Qenya).
Dosta- = to burn. It's not in Hisweloke's, but it is in A Gateway to Sindarin, so I've never been actually entirely sure if it's reconstructed or attested or not!
Ospa- = to smoke. I would have preferred to reconstruct off USUK-TA, but it came out as nonsense.
Pad- = to step (as opposed to pada- = walk)
Cillendor
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: July 26, 2012 11:47
Galadivren, you might enjoy this.

Image

Yes, it is your translation of "Misty Mountains Cold" in Cirth (Angerthas Moria). I'll tackle the Tengwar versions next. EDIT: I tried tackling the Tengwar versions, but they are too long to fit comfortably on this page. I'll maybe try later, but I wouldn't be able to embed them without making them too small to read. (I have the Beleriand version finished already, but I haven't converted it to an image or uploaded it yet.)

Note: If you want, I can restructure this so each line is distinct. As it is, each stanza is separated by a column of four dots. Each word is separated by two dots. Three dots indicate a line break. A mid-level single dot is a hyphen, and a baseline single dot indicates a double letter (supposedly there's supposed to be an actual character for that, but I couldn't find it, so I had to write it next to the certh).

The only change I made was swapped "ú-ab" for "núf", which I told you about in the other thread. I can change it back if you'd like.
Galadivren
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: July 27, 2012 01:03
Oh that's quite cool

No I'm quite happy with núf, I checked its reconstruction and added it to my own lists.
Cillendor
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: July 27, 2012 01:14
Since this is on a new page now, you might not have seen my recent edit. I have the Beleriand version finished, but it is too long to fit here well and still be visible. I'll have to tweak it somehow before uploading it. I'm working on the tehtar version next.
Cillendor
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: October 21, 2012 10:01
I have tried to tackle the incantation of the Barrow-wights from "Fog on the Barrow-downs" in The Fellowship of the Ring. Please let me know what you think.

Original:
Cold be hand and heart and bone,
and cold be sleep under stone:
never more to wake on stony bed,
never, till the Sun fails and the Moon is dead.
In the black wind the stars shall die,
and still on gold here let them lie,
till the dark lord lifts his hand
over dead sea and withered land.

Sindarin:
Nar ring cam ar ach a hûn,
a na ring lostas nu 'ond:
ú-ui ad-echuiad am haust 'onnen,
ú-ui, núf ias i Anor dêw ar i Ithil gwanna.
Min gwaew vor in elenath gwannathar,
a derir hí bo valt davo andin caedar,
núf ias i Vorchîr hâl gam dîn
o gaear 'wann a ennor vannen.

Literal:
They-are cold hand and bone and heart,
and it is cold sleep under stone:
never again-waking upon bed stony,
never, before when the Sun it-fails and the Moon it dies.
In-the wind black the stars they-will-die,
and they-remain here on gold allow for-them they sit,
before when the dark-lord it-lifts hand his
over sea dead and land withered.

Places that gave me trouble are the first two lines ("cold is") and keeping track of all of the different mutations. I probably missed some because it gets really confusing when you have layered clauses.

Thanks for the feedback!
Galadivren
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: October 21, 2012 07:34
What about...
Ring no cam a chûn ah ach = Cold be hand and heart and bone
a ring no lostad nu 'ond = and cold be sleeping under stone
ú-ui ad-echuiad am chaust gondren = never again waking upon stony bed (you mostly just forgot to mutate haust following am, and gondren = stony)

I'm also a bit iffy about leaving (well more than a bit iffy, I don't agree with it unless it starts a sentence) the direct object out of possessive pronouns, it should be i 'am dîn.

Just some brief thoughts anyway, otherwise I'll end up probably going too far, and I have no desire to upset people.
Cillendor
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: October 30, 2012 06:31
Oh no offense taken. I'd rather be told that I'm wrong now and learn the right way than learn it wrong and be stuck that way.

One question on no, though. If it follows regular a-stem verbs, isn't no the infinitive and na the third-person present tense? Or maybe that is what you're getting at, with "cold be". I hadn't thought of using the infinitive like that, since several different sites I reference say that the infinitive is rarely used. This would be as good a time as any for it, though.

Oh, and in your revision, shouldn't gondren undergo lenition? (I coined the word I used from lossen ("snowy").
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