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Galadivren
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: October 30, 2012 05:22
I more mean it in the imperative, No! = Be! rather than a base stem.

Yeah it should be mutated, '...am chaust 'ondren'. And yes! I use the -ren/-len suffix myself from scanning the dictionary one day and going 'hang on a minute...'.
Naruvir
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: November 03, 2012 12:46
While I'm applauding you for your enthusiasm, I have to say that many of your constructions and extrapolations are, to say the least, highly dubious. You need to think about the phonetic beauty of your sentences as well as the flow, and step away from word-for-word translations.

How would you pronounce ú-ui?

There is no way to be sure that no expands to *na, and there is no attested material that would suggest that it's used in Sindarin. There are worldly languages that lack a word for be, but they still get around, choosing rather to express themselves with verbs, such as "grow tall" or "grown tall" instead of "be tall".

Just think about what it is that you really want with Sindarin...
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Galadivren
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: November 03, 2012 05:38
What it is that I want with Sindarin? To speak it as I would a living language, I'm not a teenager playing with it, I'm an adult who speaks multiple languages, and is studying Proto-Indo European and Old English (with a smattering of Middle High German). You come across as pretty arrogant, to be honest, as if you're a high authority, and questions anyone who does anything different with it. I suppose you would also entirely disagree with my interpretations on other things, such as the Future Unreal tense?

How would I pronounce ú-ui? I fail to see how you wouldn't know how to pronounce it, do I really have to do an audio file for you?

When it comes to Na- I use David Salo's extrapolations on the matter, no it's not to everyone's taste, but it's better than nowt (plus I'm not trying to use Doriathrin Sindarin, it's meant to have Exilic influences, it's the Sindarin of the Third Age and later). Furthermore, the word 'No' is attested! 'no aer i eneth lin' (scusey lack of accent I can't be bothered to paste it from word).

Furthermore, if you bothered to look at my 2 years worth of translations you would see that I don't translate 'word for word', but if one can remain closer to the original words of the poem, I believe that should be achieved - it's not meant to be an Elven interpretation of the poem (by that I mean, I'm not translating it as if it is an Elven poem written by an Elf, I'm translating the poetry of a Man).
Naruvir
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: November 04, 2012 12:16
Please calm down, Galadivren. There are a few reasons why you shouldn't be upset:

1) My reply wasn't aimed at you;
2) I didn't contest your academic history;
3) I was getting at the fact that (Neo-)Sindarin is a language limited to Middle Earth and consequently has a vocabulary as would befit that environment. Smoor's request for translation brings Sindarin far outside the comforts of this environment with the intention to translate (word-for-word) modern lyrics.

So if you wouldn't have had just skimmed through what I said and without reflection or second thought decided to pick a fight, you would've realised that I applauded the effort, with the reservation that I personally do not feel comfortable with the extent of literacy associated with the proposed translation. Or the fact that you've invented numerous of words and syntactic rules at your convenience.

As someone that is dedicated to the research of Tolkien's languages, it is my right and my responsibility in many ways to offer you my perspective and criticism - as we will only reach as far as we have by sharing our knowledge and understanding of this vast lingual universe.

It doesn't matter how long you've studied the language - if you refuse the input from others, you're not going develop beyond your sphere of understanding.
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Galadivren
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: November 04, 2012 01:45
1) *Sigh*. I wasn't 'picking a fight', and if you weren't responding to myself, perhaps you should have said @whoever it was, given that my post was the first one above yours, but fair enough.
2) Fair enough
3) Oh I'd agree with that, (though there is a certain likeableness about 'rach pen rych' don't you think? not that I came up with it, I came across it lol). Well, modern inasmuch as it's meant to be the English translation of a Westron poem. (So the Sindarin translation of a translation, but there we are.)

Only 'invention' of mine I can see in that sentence is 'never', the word for 'bone' was made by someone else (think I originally had it down as something a bit different, but thought theirs made more sense).

Term 'invention' is really quite dismissive though, it seems to me that it negates the effort someone put in to working out the roots (yeah I'm not talking about 'never', that's just a negation, and looking at the amount of them in the word list for PE17 Tolkien was quite fond of them himself), or developing a Goldogrin/Qenya word through into modern Sindarin.
Cillendor
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Post Re: Translate poems here
on: November 18, 2012 04:22
I know I haven't finished the Barrow-wight song yet (I may never; it's very hard, and I doubt they'd have spoken Sindarin anyway).

Anyway, I found a Poem about Fair Rivendell that I tried to translate.

Actually, it began with the thought of writing an acrostic, and for some reason I had Imladris on the brain. So I searched online for a suitable poem and found that one. Here is my attempt at the chorus. I am not going to translate any of the verses.

English:
To Rivendell, where elves yet dwell
In glades beneath the misty fell,
Through moor and wild one rides in haste,
To find the peace the stories tell.

All worthy of a painter's quill,
For who in long the time stood still,
The Eldar laugh and sing about
Their valley of no ill.

Sindarin:
Imladris, ias edhil ui-dhorthar / Rivendell, where elves always dwell
Mi bairth nu chithui lanthir / In fields beneath misty waterfalls
Ledhir ti trî laid throe a nîn / Travels he through fields wild and wet
A hirir i îdh o hi bint pedir / And finds the peace of which stories tell

Dan i ribas lû Imladris hâf / Against the flow of time, Imladris sits
Renn adh i degil e-deithor / Remembered by the pen of the artist
In edhil gledhir a linnar o then / The elves laugh and sing of it
San imrath i ú-hâf naid thoer / This valley that has not anything evil

I took a lot of liberties with this—probably more than are allowed. For instance, ledh- (travel, journey) is noted to be Exilic. Honestly, I don't know enough about the dialects to know if I can use this verb here, but it is the only word beginning with /L/ that fit. Also, I inverted the order of the noun-adjective in the last line and didn't lenit the /S/ in order to preserve it for the acrostic. I also tried to make lines 2 and 4 rhyme.

Anyway, please critique. I don't think I reconstructed any verbs. All verbs not found on elfdict.com are either from the wordlist on realelvish.net or the doc on sindarinlessons.weebly.com.
Cillendor
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on: May 09, 2013 12:45
On occasion, certain songs from church get stuck in my head. One in particular, "Shout to the Lord", has been a favorite of mine since I was a kid. Here is my best attempt at a Sindarin translation.

"Cano ani Chîr" / "Shout to the Lord"

Retheru, rethronen / My Jesus, my Savior
Hîr, úben ennas sui le / Lord, there is none like You
Pân i oeren, daethad ídhron / All of my days, I want to praise
I chlaur melethel veleg / The wonders of Your mighty love

Ídhen, sennas / My Comfort, my Shelter
Barad barnas a bellas / Tower of refuge and strength
Davo pân hwesten, pân im naun / Let every breath, all that I am
Ú-nuitho egleriad len / Never cease to worship You

Cano ani Chîr pân ardhon, linnatham. / Shout to the Lord all the earth, let us sing.
Bellas a claur, daethad anin âr. / Power and majesty, praise to the King.
Eryd cevir adh aeair laustathar / Mountains bow down and the seas will roar
Adh i rû eneth lîn / At the sound of Your name

Linnon an gell o chamel echaded / I sing for joy at the works of Your hands
Le ui-velithon a ui-dharthathon / Forever I'll love You, forever I'll stand
Ú-nad rovaer athan i 'waedh sevin mi le / Nothing compares to the promise I have in You

What do you think?
Galadivren
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on: May 09, 2013 03:02
Looks good! Could read it straight through without any problems. I hesitated over your word for Jesus though as I'm used to seeing either the straight Quenya attested word Hristo, or the Sindarin version, Rhiston.
Cillendor
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on: May 10, 2013 12:52
Oh, I didn't know there was a Sindarin version of Christ. I looked in the CoE name list for Joshua and didn't like the word they used (I don't think the word for "to save" was known at that point), so I coined my own instead. Jesus/Joshua literally means "YHWH is salvation" or "YHWH saves". Christ/Messiah is a title meaning "anointed". So I think I'm going to stick with my name for Jesus unless a translation by Tolkien comes out, since Jesus and Christ aren't the same name.

I tried singing this. There is one line where there is an extra syllable, making it slightly difficult to sing, but for the most part it fits well with the song. I might try recording it sometime, but I don't have any good recording equipment.

Anyway thanks for the critique! I'm glad it makes sense beyond my own head.

[Edited on 05/10/2013 by Cillendor]
Cillendor
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on: July 24, 2013 02:47
I give you… all five modern English verses of the famous Irish hymn, "Be Thou My Vision".

No le cenas nîn, ai Hîr innas nîn / Be you my sight, O Lord of my thoughts
Pân annin niben, eng le, Aran nîn / All to me petty, save you, my King
Le ind nîn romhaer, arad egor dû / You my best thoughts, daytime or night
Echuiad, lostad, calad lîn adh nin / Awakening, sleeping, your light with me

No le saelas nîn, no i pheth thaind nîn / Be you my wisdom, be my true words
Darthon adh le, pe darthol adh nin / I remain with you, if you remain with me
Le Adaren, a ni ionel thand / You my Father, and I your true son
Dorthon adh le, no mhîn na nin / I dwell with you, be one with me

No le ambas nîn, magol am maethad / Be you my breastplate, a shield for fighting
Amath bân nîn, i vellas am mband / My whole shield, the strength for safe-keeping
I verias faen, minas nadh rammas / My soul’s protection, tower with a great wall
Balan romhaer, ni halo na mhenel / Greatest Power, lift me to heaven

Ú-ídhron mhiriain, û glaur edain / I do not desire money or glory of men
Ui-no le chénant, boe sevin û athan / Forever be you a childgift, I need to possess nothing beyond
Eru, no le ero mi 'uren / One (JHVH), be you alone in my heart
Aran chall menel, nal mhîr an nin / High king of heaven, you are a jewel for me

Aran chall menel, Anor 'lân menel / High king of heaven, bright sun of heaven
Annin anno 'lass, ir tûr havel / To me give joy, when victory is possessed
'Urel naw 'uren, pem-bristais egyl / Your heart is my heart, without evil troubles
No le cenas nîn, ai Caun orchael / Be you my sight, O eminent Ruler

[Edited on 10/30/2013 by Cillendor]
Cillendor
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on: October 30, 2013 12:35
Recently I tried looking up a translation of the Lord's Prayer in Sindarin. I came across two of them: "Ae Adar" and "Min Adar". Just to get it out there, "Min Adar" is a very incorrect translation. It has a few words right, but otherwise it doesn't even make sense. "Ae Adar" is much better and was published in Vinyar Tengwar #44, but that was back in 2002. NeoSindarin has grown a lot over the past eleven years, so it's high time for a new translation of the Lord's Prayer. And that, my dear Frodo, is where I come in.

Adarem mi mhenel, i eneth lîn na aer. / Our Father in heaven, your name is holy.
Tolo i arnad lîn. / Your kingdom come.
Caro i innas lîn po geven sui mhi mhenel. / Do your will on earth like in heaven.
Anno hír ammen i mass mhîn ilaurui, / Give to us today our daily bread,
a mhe goheno oh in úgerth mhîn / and forgive us concerning our sins
sui gohenam i phen i cerir úgerth ammen. / [i]like we forgive the people who do sins against us.
Mhen údolo na úthaes, ach mhen edeledo. / Do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us.
Sevil i arnad adh i valan adh i aglar anuir. / You possess the kingdom and the power and the glory.
Thannui. / Amen.

[Edited on 10/31/2013 by Cillendor]
Galadivren
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on: October 30, 2013 02:10
Cano i innas lîn - you mean Caro, not Cano, the latter is to call.
Cillendor
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on: October 31, 2013 08:34
Oh yeah, you're right. Also I just read in VT/50 that "Ae Adar" was actually Tolkien's partial translation. Is that right? If so, I'm super embarrassed. When I looked it up before, I was under the impression that "Ae Adar" was a fan translation of Tolkien's Quenya version. I'm feeling perhaps an inordinate amount of shame over this.
Galadivren
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on: October 31, 2013 10:49
Yes, it was written by Tolkien!
Cillendor
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on: October 31, 2013 11:03
Oh dear… Words cannot express the embarrassment. x__x

But that also makes me wonder how much of neo-Sindarin is even accurate. Would Tolkien be amused by it? Would he be able to understand what we write? I followed the rules as best as I knew, and yet my version looks almost nothing like his. Am I too rooted in English grammar to even contemplate the Sindarin grammar structure?

[Edited on 10/31/2013 by Cillendor]
Vilyanon
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on: May 15, 2014 09:03
Cillendor,

I like your translation of "Shout to the Lord." I am learning Quenya at present and don't really know Sindarin, but I love the song! Good to hear of someone doing this.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
Lenielestel
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Post Be Thou My Vision
on: August 18, 2014 03:43
I see that Cillendor has beaten me to this song by a year or so. If I had found this thread earlier, I could have saved myself some trouble! Oh well, it was fun anyway! . (And gratifying to see that in some places we used the same words!)

Here is my attempt at the first two verses of Be Thou My Vision. Convoluted in spots--I tend to overthink the word choice at times... I'd be grateful for any comments.

No indemm nîn, ah Hîr I gûr nîn
Idrathon len ista athan naid bân
Len semin ned arad egor dû
Echuiad, lostad, le calad anim.

No golu nîn, a no peth thenin nîn
Ui im na len, Hîr nîn, sui le na nin
Ech Adar dhaer nîn, im hên thenid lin
Gwaedathol nin cuiatham sui min.

Original English:
Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art.
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.

Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.

[Edited on 08/18/2014 by Lenielestel]
Galadivren
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on: August 19, 2014 06:55
Some brief thoughts on the first verse inbetween work (will edit later or post again with more).

No indemm nîn, ah Hîr I gûr nîn - Remember that 'ah' is an older form of 'and' before a vowel (Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth) not the interjection 'oh!'. Use 'ai' or 'ae', it won't be misunderstood.

Idrathon len ista athan naid bân = I will prize, he/she/it knows you beyond all things. Bit confused with what meaning you're going for here as it seems to bear no resemblance to the English you posted below... What were you going for?

Len semin ned arad egor dû I think you in day or night (you forgot to mutate dû following egor).
What about...
Le ind nîn rovaer, mi calan egor dhû = You are my best inner thought, in daytime or night

Day here clearly means 'the light period of the day', so you want to use calan = period of daylight as opposed to aur or arad = a day (a complete day).

Echuiad, lostad, le calad anim.
Almost. You want Echuiol = Waking and Lostol = Sleeping here as it's the adjective you want, not the noun. It's a mistake I made myself until relatively recently. To match the English completely: Echuiol egor lostol.

[Edited on 08/19/2014 by Galadivren]
Lenielestel
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on: August 19, 2014 02:25
Thanks, Galadivren! Your comments are always clear and helpful!

Idrathon len ista athan naid bân = I will prize, he/she/it knows you beyond all things. Bit confused with what meaning you're going for here as it seems to bear no resemblance to the English you posted below... What were you going for?

something like "i value you beyond all things" I am struggling with complex sentence structure a bit, objects and subjects get jumbled.

Len semin ned arad egor dû I think you in day or night (you forgot to mutate dû following egor).
What about...
Le ind nîn rovaer, mi calan egor dhû = You are my best inner thought, in daytime or night

Day here clearly means 'the light period of the day', so you want to use calan = period of daylight as opposed to aur or arad = a day (a complete day).

Aha! Thanks for that clarification. I am getting better at double checking all meanings of a word, but I still frequently pick the wrong one!

This begs a question, though. What I was going for was "I think about you..." Could I say "Semin o le"? Somehow that didn't feel right, and I got a little bogged down, again, in the more complex sentence structures while looking for a way to say it.

Echuiad, lostad, le calad anim.
Almost. You want Echuiol = Waking and Lostol = Sleeping here as it's the adjective you want, not the noun. It's a mistake I made myself until relatively recently. To match the English completely: Echuiol egor lostol.

Interesting! I've learned so much, thank you! Off to study more English! Funny how learning a foreign language forces one to learn one's native language better!
Galadivren
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on: August 20, 2014 02:53
Lenielestel said:Thanks, Galadivren! Your comments are always clear and helpful!

something like "i value you beyond all things" I am struggling with complex sentence structure a bit, objects and subjects get jumbled.


Nay probs. Let's continue looking at this first verse then, before I move on

Ah, I see. Right.

Len idrathon/Le idrathon athan naid ban = I value you/I give value to you beyond all things


This begs a question, though. What I was going for was "I think about you..." Could I say "Semin o le"? Somehow that didn't feel right, and I got a little bogged down, again, in the more complex sentence structures while looking for a way to say it.


I've thought about this before - whether 'o len' should come before, or after the verb, and unfortunately I don't really have a definitive answer. I would hedge towards 'before' simply because that's where the 'you' comes in all attested examples, and assume that we can precede it with 'about' - i.e. O le(n) semin = About you I think - I think about you.
Galadivren
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on: August 20, 2014 03:03
No golu nîn, a no peth thenin nîn
Where's 'golu' from, or is it a misspelling of 'goll'?
Either way, this is the adjective = wise, and you want the abstract noun form 'wisdom', which in Sindarin we form thusly: gollas (or saelas, there's more than one word for wise, but as you've gone with the 'goll' form I thought I'd maintain it).
Also where's 'thenin' from? It looks like it should be a word, but Thand = True, firm, abiding. Ah. Found it. It's an old misreading of 'thand' that was corrected later on, so not your fault at all!

No gollas nîn, a no peth thand nîn = Be my wisdom and be my true word

Ui im na len, Hîr nîn, sui le na nin = nowt wrong with this, Tolkien did use 'na' for with.

Ech Adar dhaer nîn, im hên thenid lin
You can use the word 'son' instead of 'child' here. Ion = son, and again, swap 'thenid' for 'thand'.

Gwaedathol nin cuiatham sui min. = You will enfold me (actually had to look up that verb as I've *never* used it!), we will live as one?
Only thing I would say is make sure to not forget your accents.
Mîn = One. Min = In the. Big difference! (Though I knew what you meant from context).
Lenielestel
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on: August 20, 2014 02:49
So much learning! Thank you, thank you!

I have a couple more questions/comments...

I see I mistyped earlier, what meant to say that I meant was "I value knowing you beyond all things". I knew that "ista" was there for a reason, but probably conjugated wrong....

I don't know where that "golu" came from...when I went to find it again it wasn't in the dictionary. I must have been crazy.

What is "rovaer"? I'm guessing it means best? I couldn't find it in my dictionaries. Is it a compound word? I've been avoiding comparative sentences because I thought "athan" was the only way to deal with them, and, while pretty and clever, it is also complicated.

Thanks again!
Galadivren
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on: August 20, 2014 03:25
Lenielestel said:

I see I mistyped earlier, what meant to say that I meant was "I value [b]knowing you beyond all things". I knew that "ista" was there for a reason, but probably conjugated wrong....

Ah ha!

Idrathon istol len athan naid ban

Changes it a wee bit.


What is "rovaer"? I'm guessing it means best? I couldn't find it in my dictionaries. Is it a compound word? I've been avoiding comparative sentences because I thought "athan" was the only way to deal with them, and, while pretty and clever, it is also complicated.

Thanks again!


Aye indeed. It's the superlative, and it's a prefix (which is attested incidentally, it's in some of Tolkien's notes that were published in a journal). Maer = Good, useful -> Rovaer = Best, most useful.
ImAravilui
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Post Sindarin Translation of Roads go ever on by J.R.R. Tolkien
on: April 29, 2015 02:10
Hello! The poem "The roads go ever on" by J.R.R. Tolkien. I noticed there was a Quenya translation, but not a Sindarin one, so here is my best guess. Comments and corrections please!
Actual Poem,
Sindarin Translation
(Closer approximation to Sindarin words)

Roads go ever ever on,
Min bedi bo arnediad arnediad
(Roads go on endless endless)
Over rock and under tree,
Orgarag ar di’aladh
(Over rock and under tree)
By caves where never sun has shone,
Anfili mas anor gâr ú-hílant
(By caves where sun has not shone)
By streams that never find the sea;
Anyll ú-rado I aear
(By streams which do not find the sea)
Over snow by winter sown,
Orloss redhi o rhîw
(Over snow sown from winter)
And through the merry flowers of June,
Ar trelyth gelir Nórui
A drî in lyth 'ellweg Nórui
(And through the flowers merry of June)
Over grass and over stone,
Orthâr ah orharn
(Over grass and over stone)
And under mountains in the moon.
Ar dieryd ned ithil
(And under mountains in the moon)
Roads go ever ever on
Min bedi bo arnediad arnediad
(Roads go on endless endless)
Under cloud and under star,
Difaun ar di’îl
(Under cloud and under star)
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Tail mist bódiel
(Feet wandering have gone)
Turn at last to home afar.
Bennas na vedui an palanvar
(Angle at last to afar-home)
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
Hin cíniel naur ar lang
(Eyes that have seen fire and sword)
And horror in the halls of stone
Ar girith ned thaim ‘ondrafn
(And horror in the halls of hewn stone)
Look at last on meadows green
Tiri na vedui erin lent galen
(Look at last on the clearings green)
And trees and hills they long have known.
Ar geledh ar emyn istielr and
(And trees and hills they have known long)


[Edited on 04/29/2015 by ImAravilui]

[Edited on 04/30/2015 by ImAravilui]
Cuio mae
Galadivren
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Post Sindarin Translation of Roads go ever on by J.R.R. Tolkien
on: April 29, 2015 06:38
ImAravilui said:

Roads go ever ever on,
Min bedi bo arnediad arnediad
(Roads go on endless endless)

Infinitives ending in -i are only found in Noldorin, it isn't known if they continued into later Sindarin, but there aren't any examples. Also bo = on (something), which isn't appropriate here. It's a preposition, where as 'go on' is an English idiom.


Over rock and under tree,
Orgarag ar di’aladh
(Over rock and under tree)

Why are you attaching the prepositions to the words? I would also have expected to see gond = stone as opposed to 'spike, tooth of rock' which is a rather specific type or outcrop.


By caves where never sun has shone,
Anfili mas anor gâr ú-hílant
(By caves where sun has not shone)

Is An a typo for Na?
I think you're getting a wee bit confused with your tenses. 'Has shone' is the present perfect of 'to shine', not two separate verbs. Gar- = to have, hold, so what you've written is 'it has it did not shine'. If you say Gerin sigil = I have a dagger, you are saying "I have a dagger (that is with me now)".

By streams that never find the sea;
Anyll ú-rado I aear
(By streams which do not find the sea)

Again, don't attach the prepositions like that, it makes it look like there's a noun 'Anoll' that you've turned into a plural. Also Na = by. An = to/for.

ú-rado = "Do not!". This is the imperative. You need the 3rd person plural present, "They do not". ú-radar = they do not find a way.

Over snow by winter sown,
Orloss redhi o rhîw
(Over snow sown from winter)


You don't want the infinitive, you want the participle rennen = having been sown.


And through the merry flowers of June,
Ar trelyth gelir Nórui
(And through the flowers merry of June)


A drî in lyth 'ellweg Nórui -> And through the joyful flowers of June. Gelir = a merry happy person, it's used as the Sindarin name of Meriadoc Brandybuck.


Over grass and over stone,
Orthâr ah orharn
(Over grass and over stone)

If you're going to use the Exilic form of and 'ar', you need to make it consistent and not swap it for the Doriathrin 'ah'. Again, don't attach the prepositions.


Turn at last to home afar.
Bennas na vedui an palanvar
(Angle at last to afar-home)

Bennas is a noun, you can't use it as a verb like this. I would suggest Ledh- = travel or Tol- = come.
Hae = Far, incidentally. Palan- does mean 'afar' but it's found attached to a verb, palandir- only.
Bar = home has an MB root, when it undergoes soft mutation it becomes mar, not var.


Look at last on meadows green
Tiri na vedui erin lent galen
(Look at last on the clearings green)

Here you do want the imperative. Tiro! = Look!
Lant is a clearing in a forest, not a meadow. Use parth or talf.


And trees and hills they long have known.
Ar geledh ar emyn istielr and
(And trees and hills they have known long)

If you're using Galadh instead of Orn, its plural is Gelaidh.
What part of the verb Ista- is it meant to be?

[Edited on 04/30/2015 by Galadivren]

[Edited on 04/30/2015 by Galadivren]
ImAravilui
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on: April 29, 2015 10:15
Thank you for the quick reply!
So would a better version of the first line be
Roads go ever ever on
Min bâd arnediad arnediad
(roads go endless endless)?

Are infinitives simply not used in Sindarin then?

[Edited on 04/30/2015 by ImAravilui]
Cuio mae
Galadivren
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on: April 30, 2015 06:49
Infinitives - no, they're not seen in any of Tolkien's later Sindarin texts, only in Noldorin. lheben teil brann i annon ar neledh neledhi gar godrebh being the most obvious example.

I thought I'd done this poem at some point, but I can't find it... I was going to compare the first line for you. I'll have a look.
ImAravilui
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on: April 30, 2015 10:19
Thank you for looking. I did re-do the rest of the poem based on your corrections, and I have a few questions.
Is it more common to use ‘a’ for ‘and’?
Is ‘orn’ preferred to ‘galadh’?
Is there a preferred word used for ‘star’?
Is there an article detailing how to use Sindarin prefixes properly?
Thank you for your time again. I can post the updated version if you cannot find the earlier translation.
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Galadivren
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on: May 01, 2015 06:03
Depends how old you want the text/speaker to be. If it's later Third Age, then it should be 'a', if it's Doriathrin, use 'ah' before a vowel, if you want a Noldorin Exilic flair use 'ar'.

Orn and Galadh have different meanings actually.
Galadh = A large tree, such as oak and beech. Thicker, denser, more branches than an 'orn'.
Orn = Any other tree such as ash and birch

El is the poetic, archaic word, used in prayers, verse, etc.
Gil is the normal Third Age word, the 'everyday' word.

Prefixes such as Ab- /Ad- /Os-? Basically they attach to verbs (with the verb conjugated normally, so if you want to say 'I wrote again' you'd write ad-deithannen) with soft mutation.

[Edited on 05/02/2015 by Galadivren]
ImAravilui
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on: May 02, 2015 05:34
Oh! Henion. Le hannon.(very much!)
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Erudess
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on: November 19, 2015 01:03
Suilad! I'm really new at this, so I don't really understand all the rules to the language yet, but I wanted to translate this for a story I'm working on and was hoping for a little help.

Original:
Hush-a-bye, don't you cry
Go to sleep my little baby
When you wake, you shall have
All the pretty little horses
Blacks and bays, dapples and greys
All the pretty little horses
Hush-a-bye, don't you cry
Go to sleep my little baby
When you wake you shall have
All the pretty little horses

Translation:
Na dínen, av le nalla
Bedi losto tithen laes nin
Ir le echui le innas garo
Pân i bain tithen rych
Myrn a baran, pegui a mithrin
Pân i bain tithen rych
Na dínen, av le nalla
Bedi losto tithen laes nin
Ir le echui le innas garo
Pân i bain tithen rych

Literal Translation:
Be silent, don’t you cry
Go to sleep my little baby
When you awaken you will have
All the beautiful little horses
Blacks and brown, spotted and greys
All the beautiful little horses
Be silent, don't you cry
Go to sleep my little baby
When you awaken you will have
All the beautiful little horses


There is also an extra verse I can't decide whether or not to include, but I translated it also.

Original:
Way down yonder
In the meadow
Poor little baby cryin' Mamma
Birds and butterflies
Flutter 'round his eyes
Poor little baby cryin' Mamma

Translation:
Men dad hae
Mi i parth
Naer tithen laes nalla nanna
Aew a gwilwileth
Revia os tîn hin
Naer tithen laes nalla nanna

Literal:
Way down far
In the field
Sad little baby cry Mommy
Birds and butterfly
Fly around his eyes
Sad little baby cry Mommy


[Edited on 11/20/2015 by Erudess]

[Edited on 11/22/2015 by Erudess]
Galadivren
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on: November 25, 2015 08:13
Na dínen, av le nalla
Bedi losto tithen laes nin
Ir le echui le innas garo
Pân i bain tithen rych
Myrn a baran, pegui a mithrin
Pân i bain tithen rych
Na dínen, av le nalla
Bedi losto tithen laes nin
Ir le echui le innas garo
Pân i bain tithen rych


Okey dokey...
Av le nalla -> Pronouns attach to the verbs as a pronominal ending. Avnallog/Avnallodh/Avnallol = Don't you cry. Or, Avo nallo! Don't cry!

Bedi losto tithen laes nin -> Losto i laes dithen nîn = Sleep my little baby.

Ir le echui le innas garo -> Eep. Innas = Will as in 'my will to do something, my inner strength'. Ir [echuiathog/echuiathol] [sevithog/sevithol] = When you awaken, you will have. -og is an informal ending, -ol is a formal ending.

Pân i bain tithen rych -> Pân in rych bain dithen

Myrn a baran, pegui a mithrin -> Myrn a verain, pig a vith = Blacks and browns, dots and greys.

And then it's repetition of the comments already made.

[Edited on 11/26/2015 by Galadivren]
Erudess
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on: December 05, 2015 12:41
Thank you Galadivren!

Quick question. I notice there's three different endings for Don't you cry instead of two. What does the dh ending mean?

Other than that. I think this should be right?

Na dínen, Avnallol?
Losto i laes dithen nîn
Ir echuithol, sevithol
Pân in rych bain dithen
Myrn a verain, peg a vith
Pân in rych bain dithen
Na dínen, Avnallol?
Losto i laes dithen nîn
Ir echuithol, sevithol
Pân in rych bain dithen
Galadivren
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on: December 07, 2015 07:27
-dh is probably Doriathrin (for an older speaker) - I wasn't sure what age speaker you wanted this for so I gave you all three (formal, informal, older).

Oh whoops, missed this - Na dínen should be No dínen. Other than that, looks good!
Erudess
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on: December 08, 2015 06:34
Erudess said:Thank you Galadivren!

Quick question. I notice there's three different endings for Don't you cry instead of two. What does the dh ending mean?

Other than that. I think this should be right?

No dínen, Avnallol
Losto i laes dithen nîn
Ir echuithol, sevithol
Pân in rych bain dithen
Myrn a verain, peg a vith
Pân in rych bain dithen
No dínen, Avnallol
Losto i laes dithen nîn
Ir echuithol, sevithol
Pân in rych bain dithen


Fixed Thank you!

[Edited on 12/08/2015 by Erudess]
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