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Figwit
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Post Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 17, 2003 10:47
First of all, it's kind of difficult to say when one sequence ends and another begins - so I chose for the second to take the arrival of Gandalf in the Shire and his re-encounter with Bilbo.

The big question here is: there's four major characters introduced in these scenes - Gandalf, Frodo, Bilbo ànd the Ring. Do you think it's done well? How does PJ influence our view of them?

Also, how do you like Hobbiton. They put a lot of effort in it, so it's good to take a closer look at the sets, both indoors and out...

Would you have changed anything, added a scene, cut out a few lines?

And of course, the inevitable poll question: which part did you like best?
Nevthónîel
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 17, 2003 11:57
I didn't like the scenes in the Shire at all. Well, maybe, I'm just obsessed with the elves and that kind of stuff.
But Hobbiton is such an amazing place! It's beautiful, and it's just the way Tolkien wanted it to be. Really good job there.
But sometimes, the movie can get a bit, I don't no, boring. Especially when you've already watched it about..8 times.
The rest of the movie is more thrilling, and there are so many things happening.
But, that's my opinion.
Lintelómiel
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 01:14
I voted for Concerning Hobbits. I saw it a couple of weeks ago and I loved it! The music, Bilbo's wonderful voice-over, it was absolutely great! Also, I'm a Sam-lover and I just melted into a puddle when I saw him sitting in the garden with those purple flowers and with that cute expression on his face! I was watching the DVD with a friend and she had to cover her ears because I was squealing "oh my, omygawd that's so cuuuuuuuute!"

Gandalf meeting Frodo was good, I guess, but didn't stand out for me. I liked Gandalf re-encounter with Bilbo better, especially Gandalf maneuvering in the too-small spaces, hitting his head and stuff. I also like Bilbo describing how he feels: thin, stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread... Just the kind of metaphor a Hobbit would use! Yeah, I know it's in the book, I'm glad PJ put it in.

Hobbiton looked fabulous. So green and sunny and peaceful. And all those details: the costumes, the holes, the gardens, magnificent! Also compliments for Howard Shore, I think the Hobbit theme is perfect; light-hearted and happy, like the Hobbits, and I just adore the flute. I love the way it vibrates ever so slightly, it gives the theme a hint of vulnerability. Oh, sorry for the nonsense, but it's the way I feel.

No Elves, no action, but a great sequence all in all.


[Edited on 18/5/2003 by Lintelómiel]
Elven_Sweetheart
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 03:14
I didn't really think that Bilbo was really a main character....umm well what ever.I voted the last one that said "no elves,no action,.....(and whatever it said here)" I thought it was actually alittle boring...but thats my opinion......though I did like the music.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 05:35
I absolutely loved Frodo and Gandalf's greeting. It almost makes me cry thinking about it. It shows Gandalf's humility and sense of humor. It also shows their fondness for each other.

Another part that sends chills down my spine is when the little girl is running and shouting "Gandalf Gandalf"...combined with the music it is so touching. The children love him and this makes you love him as well. It gets you excited about his arrival.."Ooh, Gandalf is here!"

I think PJ did a great job at introducing the characters. You get to see Gandalf's soft lovable side..and see that he is not a pretentious untouchable wizard. He loves the Hobbits and their simple life. Frodo appears as a carefree, yet thoughful hobbit. Bilbo-Ian Holm IS Bilbo..perfect just perfect!

I think the set of Hobbiton is amazing, as well...just as I pictured it, but more lush and alive.

I enjoyed "Concerning Hobbits" in the extended DVD, but I'm glad it wasn't in the theatrical release. Too long, Too silly.

On the whole..great sequence -a bit silly at times but that adds to the charm and carefree nature of the Hobbits.
sepdet
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 05:37
The theatrical version was the "magic moment" for me when I let out the breath I was holding and squeezed my sweetie's hand: there it was! Just Frodo sitting reading a book (and I immediately knew which), in a green land that could only be The Shire, right before our eyes, with Gandalf singing a tune we've known all our long lives and never heard before.

It was like watching a baby being born, for me. The Prologue was magnificent. But this was the story's beginning, and where we stepped onto the bus.

The banter between Frodo and Gandalf set the stage, for me, of everything to come: not quite word-for-word Tolkien, but expressing both characters well, with a delight, a reality I had only dreamed before. I was smiling from ear to ear as Frodo jumped in with "it's wonderful to see you again, Gandalf!" because in a way, that's exactly how I felt.

And when the cart went on and the Shire rolled by absolutely as I had imagined it, but better, and when that old Hobbit scowled in so hobbity a manner, and the children begged for fireworks, nevermind I knew in the book that Gandalf didn't give out any before the party, it felt right, and it looked right, and it was good. I was on that cart right there with them, looking ahead, eager for the party and all the roads going ever ever on past it.

Obviously my reaction is that of a longtime Tolkien reader. I had no need to think of Elves and action: they'd come when they'd come. I was there to reread the book again, as I do each year, with a difference: this time it would be fresh, and I could practically step into it, touch every blade of grass. This time my old friends were there for me to see, and even if some of them sounded a little funny, I knew them.

When I finally got the EE, the "Concerning Hobbits" was okay, but it wasn't that "moment of revelation" of seeing the Shire for the first time. I was still pleased, and I liked having Bilbo there being Bilbo, but he seemed a bit off-- too sinister by about one note-- and also the stupidity of the ear-booger Hobbit was a little too vulgar, a little too simplistic sort of humor. Hobbits are simple but not stereotypes. Sometimes PJ's humor is a little too broad and basic for me. So that annoyed me.

I still take the theatrical version with me when I travel, though I watch the EE at home.

[Edited on 5/18/03 by sepdet]
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 07:40
I agree with Sepdet that the theatrical version is the one that holds the magic, the special one, the first one. It brought Gandalf and Frodo in perfectly and gave a wonderful impression of "life in general" in a very short time. Gandalf and Bilbo were some of the only characters I knew (from The Hobbit) and seeing them there, different to how I'd imagined but equally right, made me feel secure in the Shire with them.

Concerning Hobbits is good and I'm glad it came out later. It feels right, hearing the story and getting a basic introduction and then having the details filled in afterwards, building up the story in layers.

I think the Shire is beautiful and light-hearted and exactly the way I imagined it. Nevertheless, I couldn't help leaning over to my dad and saying "It's Tellytubby land!". *Hangs head in shame*. Also, I agree with Lintelómiel, the music is just the essence of hobbitness. Lovely.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 08:09
This time, I found the poll rrrreally easy: I voted for the theatrical cut of Gandalf's arrival in the Shire.

In the books, Tolkien adapts his writing style to the place where he is. He uses longer sentences describing old places, uses more consonants describing scary scenes and his language is easy-going and even a bit witty when he writes about the Hobbits.
But of course, it's hard to translate this to a screen, and I was –honestly- very worried about what he'd do with the Shire. Because that little corner of Middle Earth is almost a character in itself.

Needless to say, I was very relieved when I saw that first scene in which Gandalf takes us on a little tourist trip of the country: it was just perfect. The lighting (a golden light that leaves something like a trace of honey on all other colours, even the green), the costumes, the shots PJ chose (like that of Hobbits working in the yellow field, or of the mill) and of course the wonderful score by Howard Shore: all these things combined created the exact atmosphere I had hoped for, and pictured when I read the books.
He also put in a massive amount of detail: the objects, the costumes, the makeup and whigs... it all seemed to be *right* somehow.
It was a bit like seeing a movie about a country you've been to countless times, and you recognise it, and can say: oh yes, that's exactly what it's like over there.

This first scene was crucial for a few things: first of all it had to establish the characters of Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo; but it also needed to – in a very limited amount of time – describe the Hobbits and their world, their way of thinking and living, as accurately as possible. I think it succeeded perfectly in doing that.

Frodo's introduction was a bit strange, to me. Somehow, I hadn't expected to see him this early on in the movie, so it was unexpected. But the shot of him sitting under the tree and looking up when he hears Gandalf's singing, only faint and very distant, is still one of my favourites, because of its simplicity and the many layers of meaning: he's reading a book, sitting all alone and he is disturbed from his peace by Gandalf. Frodo is a learned Hobbit who often takes to adventure, not only in real life but also in his mind; he has some great friends but he's also a bit of a loner, and also a bit of an outcast because of his uncle, ànd he's an orphan; he lives a rather peaceful and sheltered life by Bilbo's side but all that's about to blow up in his face. And who is going to bestow the hardest task on him? Gandalf!

Something else about the introduction to Frodo that I liked very much is how carefree he seems to be: a huge contrast with the Frodo we'll come to know in the rest of the story. Elijah Wood portrayed him very well: looking truly innocent, but never too young. I was a bit afraid of that, because I knew Wood and I know his age, but he never looks like kid (well, in Rivka's marvellous screencaps he does, but not on the screen).

I liked the interaction with Gandalf, and I especially liked how he sang the same song Bilbo sings upon leaving. That really moved me.
Of course, for Gandalf, the looks were very important: all bookies have this distinct picture of the wizard in their heads, and I was curious about how they were going to make him look in the film. I had seen some things already, but I wasn't really reassured. I must say that, although his costume was perfect, it wasn't his look that in the end persuaded me, nor Ian McKellen's great acting performance. It was two things: the scene with the fireworks and the accent.

The part where he waits a bit too long before he lights the fireworks, sending those kids into a frenzy, was just perfect. The look on his face is priceless, and you get a sense of how comfortable he is right there, amongst these Hobbits. I was worried about that, because it's very easy to turn Gandalf into this serious wise wizard, rather than the often mischievous tramp he seems to be in the book. But that part perfectly illustrated Gandalf's familiarity with these people.

And the accent: wow. I know a voice can do a lot for a performance (look at Pippin, Arwen, Galadriel, Gríma or Treebeard), and I know accents matter a lot, but I never imagined the impact a slight shift of pronunciation could have.
If you listen to Gandalf, and compare him to McKellen's own voice, or other parts he's played, you'll notice that he's modified both his tone of voice and his accent: his voice is a bit lower and richer (like that of someone who's been smoking a lot, but not too much yet); he speaks within his mouth (he doesn't articulate too well) and he uses his teeth to pronounce certain consonants as though he's constantly smoking his pipe and saying things around it. He also stammers a little from time to time.
It was only when I went to see X-Men² a few weeks ago that I noticed how very different Gandalf's voice is from Magneto's. I really didn't have a problem watching the film and not thinking of Gandalf. And I think the main reason for that is the way McKellen 'disguised' his own voice in LOTR.

I should also mention Bilbo of course. I had some problems with him at first, because he was so very different from the Bilbo I knew in the books. PJ & co took the Bilbo we meet in Rivendell as a starting point, it seems, and that makes sense because you don't want the beginning to be too creepy, but the effect of the Ring had to be made clear from the very start.
At first I felt some things about Bilbo were lost in the progress, but in the end I think they can still be found in his interaction with Gandalf: he's still this almost bourgeois, friendly Hobbit, very polite but also slightly too enthusiastic.
Ian Holm's performance is really outstanding, and I especially like his face when he says: 'I feel thin, sort of stretched...' He seems miles away, but you can't be sure whether he's just lost in thought or he's deliberately avoiding Gandalf's gaze. That part was acted out perfectly, and in my opinion it's crucial because in the book I never had the feeling Bilbo suffered much, but in the movie you clearly see how the Ring claimed Bilbo – and he only barely escapes from it.

Just one more thing that I'd like to mention, and that's why I don't like Concerning Hobbits on the EE. I know it's very funny and it's very well done (PJ did a great job directing, and I don't know who the chief photographer was but the guy or lady has an eye for colour and light I can tell ya), but it doesn't work for me.

The movie – FOTR – opens with a thrilling prologue drenched in blood. It's all spooky and scary and dark, and serious. That's good, but Tolkien uses his Ring in two different ways: he uses it as a gigantic dark force hovering over the story, like the rumbling of thunder in the background, and he uses it as a sort of slow-working poison. [This is very resembling of how power operates as a factor in people's life, but that's a book discussion ]
PJ did the same thing in the movie: on the one hand there's the Ring as this demonic object (with a character of its own) that's always in the background (or in Frodo's breast pocket); and on the other hand there's the influence it has on everyone and everything around it.
These are two different ways of creating tension and danger, and they only work well together because they're used harmoniously: threat is constant, poison works slowly.
My problem now is, that in Concerning Hobbits, the poison is introduced too soon. We see Bilbo suffer, we see how the Ring toys with his mind, and how the others worry. But it's already too obvious. In this scene we can already guess just how addictive the Ring is. There's no need to show us how Frodo slowly gets in the Rings hold, because we already know this will happen.
Does any of this make any sense at all?

Anyway, it breaks through the innocence of the first sequence like a shark jumping out of the water; whereas in the theatrical version we only see the shape of the shark swimming somewhere under the surface, but we can't make out quite how big it is or how far underneath us it's swimming.
That's why I like the theatrical version a lot better.

There's a lot of details I haven't discussed yet, but I'm sure someone else will bring them up. If not, I can always post again (though maybe there's already a 'Radically Edit Figwit's Post' action group started somewhere?)
Eothain222
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 09:48
Deffinately the concerning hobbits bit. It shows the innocence and peacefullness of the shire and how it's completely different from the rest of the world (seperated) especially after prolouge as none of the events concerened hobbits at all, they just lived happily in there little part of the world and the concerning hobbit bit shows this very well. I felt more for the Shire and sad about Frodo leaving it and wanting to leave there in the concerning hobbits bit than the opening in the threatrical version.
Lady-Arwen
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 03:21
This scene is one of the most interesting because of its beginning. The fact is then when the movie begins with the Prologue, you are swept so quickly into a history and battles and the forging of the great rings that for a moment your mind goes to complete oatmeal and you can not even comprehend what you are watching. This can be an exciting and frustrating feeling because there is always a coin of your mind that is missing things because, the first time you see it, it takes a minute to remember where you are!

However when the Shire scene begins it suddenly slows, it takes the quiet approach into the story that lots of movies have, where you are introduced to a character you will follow for a very long time. It is interesting to note that the title: Fellowship of the Ring was reserved for the moment where the picture first opens up on Frodo. Suddenly your squashed mind is able to really focus completely on the story. As Frodo sits reading quietly you are able to settle into the scene and (let us face it) you are settling RIGHT into this world as well.

So here you are, watching Frodo under the tree. To all those avid fans of the books and even those who read it once, they know this is Frodo, but okay, you can't actually see him.

So when Frodo jumps up at the sound of Gandalf's voice and you see him for the first time (all right ignoring for the moment that you've just been electracuted by Elijah Wood's eyes) you suddenly find yourself realizing that this ladies and gentleman is Frodo Baggins and you are going to be seeing A LOT of him! ;D

So I was impacted greatly by that first introduction, and now we are about to be introduced to another character!

Barely before we can absorb Frodo, here comes Gandalf! Still this scene moves at a leisurely pace and is drawing you in with each scene.

And this was probably my favorite part, Gandalf and Frodo meeting up, partly because I was more than little worried when they were both being a little sarcastic, which, if I had had time to think about it, would have been seemed very silly since their ersatz argument was so very obviously a friendly banter. Then of course the ice is broken!

I really liked getting to see the Shire, this was one of my favorite places because it was just so life-like and in fact, most of it was completely life like.

The endearing scene of them travelling through with the happy music and the rolling hills, the views of homes, gardens, fields, each was so well done that they just drew you in.

Of course you cannot help but love the little hobbit children. Okay so having so many siblings of my own doesn't hurt, but it was just so sweet, it made it clear right away that Gandalf was at home here.

It is a retrospect feeling really, but about mid-way through the movie if you look back on this scene, it is clear to see the differences in Gandalf, he feels at such a calm, relaxed peace in the Shire, as though here, the worries in the dangers of the outside world are not at all his concern, he can pass along things to Frodo like idle gossip almost like he doesn't really know.

It's really sweet seeing this atmosphere and how calm it is and really makes you see how the sacrifices of others are keeping at least one part of the world free from care, as the movie progresses you really see what a miracle this is.

Okay, so I personally did not care for the Concerning Hobbits part. There are some things about it that I did like. Seeing Sam in his garden, getting some history on Hobbits, just seeing more of Hobbiton than the few shots we had all ready seen, and of course that line of Frodo's "The rest of them are turning up anyway." But it seemed to really break up the flow of the movie, plus I didn't like that they gave Bilbo several of Gandalf's lines, it almost seemed like they'd changed the story in some way, instead of just a line.

All right, so here's a confession, as much as I enjoyed the Gandalf/Bilbo scene...I sort of find myself falling asleep over this scene now. I guess because the peace seems to have changed to a sort of drab depression and a sort of almost boredom. Though I really like the that they left the 'butter bread' line in and their comments on Frodo. Still, as much as I like this movie there are certain scenes where I just get a little worn out on them, this is really one of them.

I really like this sequence altogether though and its easy handling, I think it covers the beginning of the book very well and eases you right into the story.

~*~Lady Arwen

P.S. Well, not as of yet Figwit, but we're working on one. It shall be called, Severely Hone Overly Radically Totally Extensive Narrations (S.H.O.R.T.E.N.), or maybe Brooking Only Reduced Online Messages or Improvised Responses (B.O.R.O.M.I.R.).
Figwit
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 18, 2003 08:31

P.S. Well, not as of yet Figwit, but we're working on one. It shall be called, Severely Hone Overly Radically Totally Extensive Narrations (S.H.O.R.T.E.N.), or maybe Brooking Only Reduced Online Messages or Improvised Responses (B.O.R.O.M.I.R.).


:blush: oh well, at least this one was shorter than the last post I made

Obviously my reaction is that of a longtime Tolkien reader. I had no need to think of Elves and action: they'd come when they'd come. I was there to reread the book again, as I do each year, with a difference: this time it would be fresh, and I could practically step into it, touch every blade of grass. This time my old friends were there for me to see, and even if some of them sounded a little funny, I knew them.


oh sepdet, you said that so much better than I did
Becki
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 19, 2003 05:17
I liked the Concering Hobbits part in the Extended Version! I like the part were that hobbit's picking his ear, it's so funny!!!!

It also has the only clip of Sam gardening! Which is really weird because he's a gardener!

~Becki
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 19, 2003 12:55
I voted for the Concerning hobbits section, because I found the added scenes rather amusing. Then again, I thought the rest of the Extended version was absolutely fabulous also.

My fav scene in the Shire, involves Merry and Pippin, both during Bilbo's birthday when they set off the Dragon Firecracker. And also in the part where they are standing on the table in the Green Dragon dancing and singing. Merry and pippin have to be one of my many favorite characters in the movie. Merry and Pippin add humor to the Lord of the rings, thusly making the story more interesting as well.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 23, 2003 02:20
hobbits have always been my "interest" so obviously i couldnt wait to see what PJ did with teh shire... it was very important to me since the country of the shire was based on my country according to tolkien... so i hoped it was an image like the place i lived.

i loved it of course! and bag end was just perfect, ian holm as bilbo was just amazing, the hobbit children... everything. i had no idea what hobbits looked like in my mind, and i was very scared about what they would end up doing to them. and it was perfect! i looked at bilbo espeically and thought "now thats a hobbit!"

the extended edition i perfered... simply because of the higher amount of shire stuff, more concentration on hobbits and gandalf doing that voice over! i do wish they could have kept some of that but then the other version worked well too.

oh and who could forget howard shores music- concerning hobbits is my fave track of his so far.
Figwit
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 23, 2003 02:42
you know, I thought of south England when I saw the Shire - and Weathertop reminded me of Wales... don't ask me why!
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 23, 2003 02:50
good job really... they are the two places i live so taht was my image of the shire... yeah i can see why weathertop would remind you of brecons or black mountains- welsh hills have all sorts of random rock all over the place
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 23, 2003 08:33
Yeah, random rock and their own special brand of dreary weather! And the Shire made me feel homesick for the south. Forget mountains, I just want to see hills again. Where I live now is far too flat.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 23, 2003 10:42
I voted for "Concerning Hobbits" because I really love the way it introduces the Hobbits more. And I also love the shot of Sam gardening..

I like the way these four were introduced, I don't have any complaints really. They all seemed to me to be very fitting. I love every scene in the Shire, because it's such a beautiful place, and my aim in life is to buy a sheep farm in NZ, and basically turn it into Hobbiton! If I can't build hobbit holes, I'll live in the Green Dragon! Speaking of which, the scene with Gandalf and Frodo on the cart going past the market is another favourite! And in the EE: "We have also developed a keen interest in the brewing of ale, and the smoking of pipe weed..." or something to that effect. It's an awesome part of the film, and it's always going to be very vivid in my mind!
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 26, 2003 02:57
I voted for Gandalf meeting Bilbo. The banter of very old, very close friends and the delight of seeing these two legendary actors working together make that scene a real standout.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 12, 2005 03:30
I love the shire!
MerryandPip
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 12, 2005 11:23
I've always loved the Shire. It was really hard to pick one sequence (I did "Eeny meeny miney moe") and picked Concerning Hobbits. It's also my favorite track on the FOTR soundtrack because it makes me feel so peaceful!
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: May 12, 2005 11:34
I always did enjoy "Concerning Hobbits" on the extended edition dvd of "Fellowship of the Ring". It's a time of tranquility, joy, and happiness......not to mention fun. It's the life I would love to have: nothing to worry about but eating, sleeping, and laughing! Plus, it was probably Tolkien and PJ's way of saying "Feast your eyes, because you won't be having/seeing this much fun for the rest of the trilogy!"
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: June 14, 2007 08:53
I voted for Concerning Hobbits. The woman who pats the pig always makes me smile. I also agree with Lady Arwen who said of the Gandalf/Frodo sequence
about mid-way through the movie if you look back on this scene, it is clear to see the differences in Gandalf, he feels at such a calm, relaxed peace in the Shire,
The Shire is the core of what Gandalf and those who sent him wish to preserve: innocence: joy: the fertility of Middle Earth and its inhabitants.

I am very lucky. If step out of my door I can walk for miles in a Shire-like landscape of stone walls, butterflies, wildflowers and swallows, with rank upon rank of green rolling hills fading into the distance, many covered in trees like a sea of broccolli. To walk thus wearing a walkman with Howard Shore's music is sheer magic. Concerning Hobbits reminds me not to take it all for granted.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: September 13, 2009 03:30
First of all, I thought the Shire scene was amazing and I was blown away the first time I saw it, and that was the theatrical version! When I finally watched the EE, I loved the Shire even more. Jackson did a brilliant job with it.

It's really cool when Bilbo writes on the parchment paper with the quill, then leans back in his chair and says, "where to begin," as smoke drifts through the air. I laughed when the hobbits are preparing for Bilbo's birthday party and that one guy misses the tent peg he is trying to hammer in. ha ha ha!
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Post Re: Sequence by sequence #2: The Shire
on: September 20, 2012 09:00
I loved all of it but especally seeing Biblo and Gandalf interacting with each other you can tell they are really good friends
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