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jenise
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Post Lesson 3 Dual # and Stem variation question
on: June 22, 2003 05:10
Aiya,

I read this lesson and now am somewhat more confused.

Minë: Helge states to use the -u or -t depending on the euphony. So what about those words which don't follow the "rule" ??? :dizzy:

How do we know which ones those are...some ex given in the lesson are veru - married pair and peu - pair of lips.. Is there a list out there of the exceptions ???

Atta: Stem variation with regards to the long vowel. Would you say then that all single syllable words have the long vowel and all multiple syllable words or those that become multiple syllables when endings added drop the long vowel..???? (except for the last ë which appears to be long in many words I have see thus far )
Malinornë
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Post RE: Lesson 3 Dual # and Stem variation question
on: June 23, 2003 07:57
I read this lesson and now am somewhat more confused.
That is because you think too much Seriously, there´s a lot of information in the lessons that looks rather confusing than useful in the beginning. I found it easier to concentrate on the things in the summary and went back to read much of the other things when I was at a later lesson.

Minë: Helge states to use the -u or -t depending on the euphony. So what about those words which don't follow the "rule" ??? How do we know which ones those are...some ex given in the lesson are veru - married pair and peu - pair of lips.. Is there a list out there of the exceptions ???

I don't know of any list, but it seems to me that these exceptions are very few and likely limited to those mentioned; veru and words for body parts occurring in pairs: peu (lips), talu (feet), rancu (arms), hendu (eyes). (and of these only "peu" is attested, the rest are Helge´s deductions, but they seem likely to me, and "hendu" and "talu" would have -u anyway so they aren´t really exceptions...)

Atta: Stem variation with regards to the long vowel. Would you say then that all single syllable words have the long vowel and all multiple syllable words or those that become multiple syllables when endings added drop the long vowel..????

It does seem that monosyllables with a long vowel shorten it when endings are added, but I wouldn´t make any rules regarding vowel length here... A lot of things are going on in the stem variations, so I´ve found it easier to just memorize how the stem changes, as one anyway has to memorize which words change. I´ll try to have a list of stem variations and irregular plurals ready by Friday or so

(except for the last ë which appears to be long in many words I have see thus far )
I don´t understand what you mean here... a final ë is never long, it would have to be written é to be long. Remember that the dots are not an accent and have nothing to do with length

[Edited on 23/6/2003 by Malinornë]
jenise
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Post RE: Lesson 3 Dual # and Stem variation question
on: June 24, 2003 02:15
Aiya Malinornë,

I don´t understand what you mean here... a final ë is never long, it would have to be written é to be long. Remember that the dots are not an accent and have nothing to do with length


I was having a senior moment or a dumb blond moment here...I actually knew this cause I has asked before....duh...LOL

Thanks for the answers.
Malinornë
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Post RE: Lesson 3 Dual # and Stem variation question
on: June 24, 2003 09:45
As promised, here´s the list of irregular plurals and words with stem variation. I´ve compiled it from Quettaparma Quenyallo and if I´ve left something out, just let me know! (I´ve not included any names)

QUENYA NOUNS WITH STEM VARIATION

alas (alast-) "marble"
ambaron (ambarón-) "uprising, sunrise"
amun (amund-) "hill"
andon (andond-)"great gate"
ango (angu-) "snake"
Aurel (Aureld-) "Elf who departed from Beleriand to Aman"
calarus (calarust-) "polished copper"
car (card-) "building, house"
cár (cas-) "head"
curo (curu-) "a skillful device"
eques (equess-) "a saying, dictum,quotation"
falas (falass-) "shore, beach"
feren (fern-) "beech, beech-tree"
filit (filic-) "small bird"
halatir (halatirn-) "kingsfisher",
Hecel (Heceld-) "a forsaken elf"
hen (hend-) "eye"
huan (hún-) "hound"
hwan (hwand-) "sponge, fungus"
lairus (lairust-) "verdigris"
laman (lamn-) "animal"
lane (lani-) "hem"
lis (liss-) "honey"
lómë (lómi-) "dusk, twilight", also "night"
meren (merend-) "feast, festival"
miril (mirill-) "shining jewel"
nan (nand-) "woodland"
neltil (neltild-) "triangle"
nén (nen-) "water"
nér (ner-) "man" (adult male)
nís (niss-) "woman" (adult female)
olwen (olwenn-) "branch, wand, stick"
óman (omand-) "vowel"
oron (oront-) "mountain"
os (ost-) "house, cottage"
peltas (peltax-) "pivot"
pilin (pilind-) "arrow"
quén (quen-) "one, somebody, person"
ran (ram-) "noise"
ranco (rancu-) "arm"
riel (riell-) "garlanded maiden"
rusco (ruscu-) "fox"
sar (sard-) "(small) stone"
seler (sell-) "sister"
Silmaril (Silmarill-) "silmaril, radiance of pure light"
Sindel (Sindeld-) "Grey-elf"
soron (sorn-) "eagle"
talan (talam-) "floor, base, ground"
tamin (taminn-) "forge"
toron (torn-) "brother"
umbar (umbart-) "fate, doom"
urco (urcu-)"bogey, orc"
urus (urust-) "copper"
wilwarin (wilwarind-) "butterfly"
wingil (wingild-) "nymph"
yár (yar-) "blood"
yat (yaht-) "neck"

IRREGULAR PLURALS
ango pl. angwi "snake"
hína pl. híni "child"
lámatyávë pl. lámatyáver "sound-taste"
mallë pl. maller "street, road"
nelet pl. nelci "tooth"
rá pl. rávi "lion"
ranco pl. ranqui "arm"
rusco pl. rusqui "fox"
tië pl. tier "path, course, line, direction, way"
tyávë pl. tyáver "taste"
urco pl. urqui "bogey, orc"
Valarauco pl. Valaraucar "balrog, Demon of Might"

EDIT: added "lis" (honey) and "hína" (child)

[Edited on 4/7/2003 by Malinornë]
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