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Figwit
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Post TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 01, 2003 01:01
And we're back!

First of all I'd like to thank everyone who posted in the SbS threads, it was great fun reading everyone's opinions about the movie and discovering some forgotten facts and details myself (All hail mrs Ordesky!). Feel free to revive those threads if you'd like - one can never talk about these movies too much (okay, well, *I* can ).

Then, back to business: I took the prologue of this movie called Foundations of Stone and the opening sequence The Taming Of Sméagol together, because of the simple reason that the prologue itself was just too short and too uneventfull to discuss on its own.

So, what do you think? Was it the right way to open the movie, or did you have a better idea ? Did you like Gollum and how he was portrayed? Who's side are you on: Frodo's or Sam'?

And of course.... you guessed it... which part did you like best?

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by Figwit]
merry2
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 01, 2003 02:30
I thought it was a good way to open the movie, I liked the way PJ portrayed Gollum, and I was on Sam's side. I would have killed Gollum there also since he could kill you while your sleeping or something like that. My favorite seen was when Gollum attacked the two Hobbits. That's probably my favorite scene because it's the first time you get to see Gollum in the movie.
Legolas{Greenleaf}
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 01, 2003 04:17
Sam and Frodo eating lembas and walking around

Pretty uneventful compared to the rest of the movie, but I really enjoyed it. Especially some of the dialogue between Frodo and Sam.
Sam: This looks strangely familiar.
Frodo: That's because we've been here before!


Peace~
iLikeLOTRaLittle2much
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 01, 2003 04:26
Yes, I also voted for Frodo and Sam walking around and eating Lembas. You kind of get a little bit of Frodo and Sam and their friendship and trials before their biggest trial of all comes along and just... makes the whole thing grueling for them. I liked being able to have a little Frodo and Sam without Gollum before Gollum showed up. Plus I like...

"Frodo: What food have we got left?

Sam: Well, let me see. Oh, yes. Lovely. Lembas bread. And look! More lembas bread... I don’t usually hold with foreign food, but this Elvish stuff—it’s not bad.

Frodo: Nothing ever dampens your spirits, does it, Sam?

Sam: Those rain clouds might."

SO sweet! :love:
Este
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 01, 2003 04:35
All the Gollum parts were my favourite,especially the one when they tie him up with the Elven rope-Gollum dramatizing and crawling around all over the place,Sam`s line:˝Every Orc in Mordor is going to hear this racket!˝...I just adore that scene!
merry2
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 01, 2003 04:37
The part where there eating Lembas is my second favorite part. I think it is actually funny.

[Edited on 1/9/2003 by merry2]
Figwit
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 02:37
Let's discuss this methodically. First of all: The Return Of Stu the Mean Big Balrog. I love this scene, with a capital L. Mainly because it provides us with the perfect bridge between FOTR and TTT: you have a key scene from FOTR, one everyone will certainly remember, recapitulated and then continued – without losing any tension in that story arch (you still don't known what'll happen to Gandalf, though I guess most people in the audience already had the sneaking suspicion that he might not be dead after all, after this little reprise).
The fact that it was an action sequence is also very good: it prepares you for what is to follow, because PJ clearly wanted the second instalment to be as kicking as it could (at the expense of some of the calmer scenes).
Of course I was very pleased to catch another glimpse of two of my favourite characters: Stu (falling in style, I might ad) and Boromir (you catch two glimpses of his face ánd you get to see his sleeve for a total of 10 seconds – nice to include him, PJ ).
The music is also breathtaking in this sequence.

Then, there's the part I shall refer to as Frodo and Sam walking. Which is not my favourite part of the movie – well, it was not my favourite part of the book, so that's not at all a surprise. I did like the fact that, after opening FOTR with a shot of Frodo, you get the title of the second film (The Two Towers) with a shot of Frodo and Sam. I hope PJ keeps this up in ROTK – it's a nice reminder of the fact that these movies are actually about Frodo. Also, it implies that The Two Towers of the title are Sam and Frodo. Which is of course open to discussion (I guess the general idea is that it's either Minas Morgul & Minas Tirith; or Barad-dûr/Minas Morgul and Orthanc), but it's still a nice touch (and it shows how PJ is going to develop this storyline, with Frodo and Sam being equally important).
The only good things about this scene is the fact that you see Frodo laughing: it'll be a long long time before we get to see that again.

Then: Gollum. My preciousssss... he was awesome. Anything and everything I expected was wiped from my memory when I saw this first sequence: it was just perfect. Granted, he doesn't have the green lights in his eyes and he's slightly too clean; but still – I don't think any of the bookies had expected him to turn out this good, this realistic, this Tolkien. If you look closely (you can use the caps in the gallery if you don't have a decent freeze frame function on your video or dvd-player) you can even see the scars of torture on his back.
He didn't only *look* great, he also sounded magnificent. Andy Serkis must have wrecked his voice with this performance (I hope he had a very good voice coach) but it's well worth it imho: it's the performance of a lifetime. He should have been giving that Oscar, he deserved it. Because it's not just that the CGI doesn't bury his acting performance, but that he got it right: the tone, the pace, the facial expressions...
I can go on for hours about how wonderful he is, but I'll just stop here saying this: my vote went to Gollum because out of the entire movie he was the thing I looked forward to most, and PJ didn't disappoint me here at all.

Frodo releasing Gollum is just perfect. Sean Astin does a great job at portraying Sam, and his concern for his master making him distrustful of Gollum and everything the creature says or does – I disliked him even more in the movie than I did in the books, and that's a good sign, trust me.
Elijah Wood is – once again – the perfect Frodo: showing his doubt but also his hope, the knowledge that he might become like Gollum and the fear this brings along, his kindness, the memory of Gandalf's words... It's all there without being too obviously acted out.

Extra credit to Howard Shore for the beautiful score (a reprise of the Concerning Hobbits-theme and the eerie yet beautiful theme he uses for Gollum), PJ for including that sweet reminder of the Elvish rope (though the EE looks promising enough) and Sean Bean for being the most adorable man on earth – nah, just kidding (though he ís, he ís).
Roheryn
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 06:56
Once again Figwit you have hit it bang on. You have a gift you know. Anyway, I agree with you on several points.

I love the way the opening ties in with FOTR and I think it is absolutely right that this film opens with Frodo and Sam together alone in this desolate place.

And Gollum, ahhh, Gollum - absolutely perfect and perfectly acted by Andy. I think JRRT himself would have been satisfied with the screen version. The care they took in developing this character and bringing him to life is something I think we are all quite thankful for.

And yes, Elijah portrays Frodo beautifully, as Sean Astin does Sam. (one thing we will never agree on though I'm afraid is Sam - I love Sam as a character both in book and movie. I would definitely want Sam with me on this adventure).

I voted for Frodo releasing Gollum, although I love this whole opening sequence.

p.s. I love that you named the Balrog Stu.
k
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 07:02
you still don't known what'll happen to Gandalf, though I guess most people in the audience already had the sneaking suspicion that he might not be dead after all, after this little reprise


oh and the fact that gandalf was in the trailer telling everyone he was back might have given his return away a bit too

anyway yeah the very beginning with the sun and the moutains... i love how that was started with the scenery - ohh look were in middle earth. and then cutting into the balrog scene and the scene itself was good, though i did have some problems with the sword not slicing up gandalfs arm or something as it fell. anyway i can ignore that for that beautiful image of the flame lighting up the chamber and falling at great speed (but looking slow) into the water... ace!

gollum and sam walking... i dont like this bit. um the words the way they are delivered sound "scripted" its the only way i can describe it... i saw them in much the same way as i saw the red sun line by legolas, it just didnt seem "natural" taken indivudually, the script was good and the actors were in character, but i dont know something about the timing or something. it just makes this bit really hard for me to watch without feeling dissapointed.

so yeah anyway- im not sure i agree about your TTT being sam and frodo idea figwit.. but im sure this has been debated elsewhere... might be nice if weve still got the thread to bring it back to the top. anyway...

ohhhh gollum... i heard good things about him and the trailers looked good, but i still expected something like dobby just a bit better. but wow! figgy said it all really, so real, so tolkien, perfect!

Goldsand
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 10:00
I voted for Gollum, and I also believe that an Oscar should have rightfully gone to Andy Serkis ... he was absolutely amazing. I simply cannot say it any better this, (and what Figwit and everyone else said here so far - well-put!).
I did feel pity for Gollum after hearing his anguished wailing, though as much as I would like to say that I would be compassionate enough to release him, I'm afraid my more suspicious nature would take over and I would probably be more like Sam.

I loved the opening scene of the sweeping views of the Misty Mountains. The lighting and overall cinematography was awesome. Magnificent ... (almost had a sense of vertigo while watching this in the theater).

Also loved this little bit:

Sam: Ah!  What's that horrid stink?  I'll warrant there's a nasty bog nearby.  Can you smell it?
 
Frodo: Yes, I can smell it. 

A very minor thing I know but Elijah's expression and the way he delivered that line was the perfect epitome of mild disgust ... makes me laugh every time .

[Edited on 5/9/2003 by Merenwen~Goldsand]
Diva
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 10:41

Also loved this little bit:

Sam: Ah!  What's that horrid stink?  I'll warrant there's a nasty bog nearby.  Can you smell it?
 
Frodo: Yes, I can smell it. 

A very minor thing I know but Elijah's expression and the way he delivered that line was the perfect epitome of mild disgust ... makes me laugh every time .


I also thought the delivery of that line was great! It really stayed with me!

Not to ruin a beautiful piece of scenery...but was anyone else thinking "Chocolate chip ice-cream" with the opening shots of the Misty Mountains? Heh, sorry...just being honest.

I loved the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog! As Figwit said, I thought it was a perfect bridge from FotR. I also adored the wide-shot of Gandalf and the Balrog fallings, as k mentioned, I thought it was excellent!

As far as "Frodo and Sam walking," it's no scene of great proportions...but I do think that it was a god opener for the film, right where we left off, and the fact that they've been having troubles is made clear to the audience. We are also reminded of the weight of the Ring on Frodo, and that it is "getting heavier"; something that was a bit more subtle in FotR for those who weren't paying attention I also thought the slight lembas joke was good, very "Sam-like."

And how great was Gollum?! Figwit put it so well, that I can barely add to what she said...but Gollum (and Andy Serkis) were pure excellence! When I first saw pictures of Gollum, I didn't think he was quite right, but in the film, Serkis' performace and Gollum's character development were amazing! (and yea, Figwit, I did notice the scars from his torture...I greatly appreciated the detail!) Not only was Serkis' performance absolutely stellar, but you know he really cared a lot about the project if he agreed to wear that shiny blue skin-tight suit in front of people! I just see that as greatness.

Frodo's freeing of Gollum was good as well. The audience definitely gets to see that Frodo is aware of what he might becoem, as a result of being the ringbearer. Gollum was also pretty funny close to the end of that sequence "...we swears, we swears...on...the precious *cheesy grin*" I thought that line was pure magic!

Sorry for the length of the post, yea. I just saw TTT for the first time when I bought the DVD, so I'm still kind of on a TTT high. :dizzy:

Heh, did you ever think I'd write so much for a scene that doesn't even *have* Aragorn in it...the world's gone mad!...just like me...
-----------------------------------
Aha, so glad I share my "chocolate chip ice-cream" revelation with a seven year old...lol! Glad to bring some laughter Merenwen, though I can't help but think I've scarred you for life!

[Edited on 9/6/2003 by Diva]
~wild_shieldmaiden~
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 11:20
LOL! Choc. chip ice cream is just what my best friend's 7-year old sister told me it looked like!
I was torn between Gollum and Legolas:drool: muahahaha!
(No I am NOT a Nazgirl, I just think he (Lego) is really cool! And being cute is a big plus! lol)
Not going to tell you which I voted for. :evil:
snowystingray
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 05, 2003 11:36
I really, really like the way that TTT opened. While I picked Sam and Frodo walking as my favourite part ("more lebas!"), I adore "Foundations of Stone". Horray for Boromir (and even more of him in the EE, yay) and for continuity as well. Superb score by Howard Shore, who is just the absolute greatest. I also like the fact that Frodo is still having dreams about Gandalf's death. In FotR they don't really dwell on the loss of Gandalf once they leave Lothlorien, but I like that we can see that Frodo is still feeling the effects of losing his mentor.
Gwenhwyfar
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 06, 2003 07:54
The opening Balrog sequence was very impressive -- and very close to what I had imagined from the book, which was a plus for me, but why was it called "Foundations of Stone?
Just wondering...

Anyway, I had to pick "Gollum, just Gollum" as my fave, because, as many previous posters have noted, Gollum is absolutely perfect. I don't think there is any other character that is as fully true to the book as Gollum is. Everything is there, his ring-lust, his viciousness, his obsequiousness, his humor, his pathos, everything. They really outdid themselves with Gollum, and if that is not worthy of an oscar, nothing is.

As far as who was right (Sam or Frodo), I have to go with Frodo. Sam's advice is sensible in a limited way, but Frodo is much more foresighted here, more able to see the importance of things like pity and compassion, especially as a counterweight to the corrupting influence of the ring.
~precious~lil~smeagol~
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Post RE: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: November 09, 2004 04:33
I picked "Gollum, just Gollum" too cause he's my favorite character.:love:

I like every Smeagol scene and I would definitely side with Frodo cause I would never hurt poor Smeagol.....

STUPID SAM!!!! HURTING SMEAGOL!!! :angry:

SHAME!
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Post Re: TTT Sequence by sequence #1: The Taming Of Sméagol
on: September 20, 2012 10:29
I picked Frodo freeing Gollum because you can see in Frodo's eyes that he feels bad about what their doing to him and just really wants to help Gollum anyway he can.
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