Tasar's Home in Middle Earth :: Tasar's Home in Middle Earth: The Front Page Rant

Tasar's Home in Middle Earth: The Front Page Rant

Terribly funny Grima quote I found: Actually, "Grima" is a perversion of the elvish meaning "Supple and rounded as an August Peach"....honest.--Ithilriel

Denethor Rant:

We are of many different minds when it comes to Denethor II Last Ruling Steward of Gondor. I have been downright appalled by the things I have seen written about him. The lack of understanding before judgement. Especially those 'comments' in the gallery. Pardon, please, my uncouth what in the Hell is with comparing Denethor to Strom Thurmond? Or calling him a child abuser? Or dismissing him as a demented, crazy old man?

*calms down* Even we of the PrDP, who have committed many a grave disservice to his character... At the least we have an understanding of the _TRUE_ Denethor. He was a man of great pride. Pride in Gondor, in his people. Everything he would have done; it was all for Gondor.

Appendix A: Lord of the Rings:

'Denethor II was a proud man, tall. valiant, and more kingly than any man that had appeared in Gondor for many lives of men: and he was wise also, and farsighted, and learned in lore.'

That, I think, sums things up rather nicely, do you not?

It has been suggested that Denethor's attitude towards Faramir is based on the fact that this second son reminds him of Finduilas. I find this theory to be far too simplistic. And when in anyone's experience have human relationships been explainable in terms simplistic?

To begin to understand the dynamics and undercurrents of this relationship we must go back to Denethor's father Ecthelion II. Back to Thorongil... Never, in my understanding has it been suggested that Thorongil and Denethor had an adversarial relationship. I doubt, in fact, that they had much of a personal relationship at all. (contrary to what a couple of _really_ fabulous slash fics would have us believe *wink*)

Thorongil was beloved by the people of Gondor, and Ecthelion. The only area it is known that he surpassed Denethor was in prowess on the field of battle. This is something more impressively displayed publicly (For what glory is there to be found in a secret battle, or a battle of one?) than a sharp mind and fair store of knowledge. Denethor would have known very well his own limitations and envied that which he seemed unable, incapable even of achieving. No matter how great his abilities in warfare he knew he would never be as good as Thorongil, as I am sure he was constantly reminded of by his father.

It would seem even in their council the two were indeed similar. The only example of a major disagreement between their advice we are given is in which Istari Ecthelion should place his trust. It is my belief that by the time this particular issue was addressed Denethor had surmised Thorongil's heritage and figured Mithrandir to be planning the other man's return to the throne of Gondor as King. Also a lot of mistrust is garnered by the secrecy of it, of not making their intentions known at once, of seeming as spies. So the choice of Saruman over Mithrandir, unfortunately, seems tainted by personal feelings.

The treatment of Denethor by his father; the favoring of Thorongil by Ecthelion will have planted the first seeds of doubt in a great and powerful mind.

Now in his time of rule Denethor begins fully to comprehend the scope of the threat Mordor poses, this doubt takes root. Perhaps the type of ruler needed in this time is not the type he is capable of being. No matter how great his strengths may be, the truth to him will be that it is not enough. Gondor will falter and fail, and it is because _he_ is not what his people need.

But here now is Boromir! Like his father in face but there the similarities end. Boromir is the masterful battle commander, the single minded, bold, strong leader Gondor needs in this dark time. Surely he will make up for Denethor's self perceived short comings.

And then Faramir, who in truth is no less the hero, no less a leader of Men than Boromir. Yet he is different. He reminds Denethor of himself more than anything or anyone else. If not in his face, his father still sees reflected in his second son all the things he takes fault with in himself. Now is not the time for lore masters, but for military men. He presses the boy, pushes him to be the type of man Boromir is. Tries even to shame him into being the type of leader he believes is the only possible hope for the people of Gondor, of the whole of the race of Men.

To add injury to insult, Mithrandir when present would dare to treat Faramir as equal to Boromir. Perhaps this wizard whom brought the man who stole his father's love, the love of his people, and plans to usurp him, dares even suggest Faramir to be the greater of the two.

The shaved chocolate garnish on the marble cheesecake just might be that something about Faramir reminds Denethor of his wife. The shape of his eyes, the gentleness in his soul, how he is sensitive and understanding to the needs of others. Perhaps just the way he seats himself in a chair holds in the air about it something that reminds Denethor of Finduilas. The woman he loved nearly as much as his favored son, which she gifted him with.

In his heart Denethor may even feel himself responsible for Finduilas' withering and dying. So young, so beautiful, still so full of promise. The only light of hope, it starts to fade with her. He could not make her happy. Could not shelter her, make her feel safe in his city.

It had been suggested by Mithrandir that Denethor had not thought to use the Palantir until after his wisdom had failed. We must bear in mind that the Istari were not infallible. (something he has proved, surely, upon more than one occasion)

I look at Lord of the Rings, every Tolkien book having to do with Middle- earth as a history. And as all histories they are written by the successful, the powerful, the conquerors, the victorious. Things are quite often interpreted after the fact. Assumptions are made, conclusions drawn based upon what we know _now_, extrapolation. That is how what I read feels... Like a history written by an observer, not an omniscient, omnipresent entity.

All of that being now said I choose to believe Denethor used the Anor stone earlier than Mithrandir chose to surmise. (As we must remember at this point his estimation of the man had diminished) Yes, I understand the issues taken by those far more knowledgeable in all matters Tolkien about using the essays in UT as seriously as the material published in Mr. Tolkien's lifetime. There is no reason a happy medium cannot be reached.

Even if Denethor did not use the palantir before the untimely death of his wife, the thought of it was there. He brooded over the subject long and hard. In the end I, too, believe that he fully considered that the Ithil stone might very well be in the hands of the Enemy. I do not see him doing something like this without thorough consideration being given.

I should like to point out that to the end Denethor was in himself indomitable, ever the enemy of Sauron. He was never corrupted by anything that was not already in his mind and heart. Sauron could not lie to him, only manipulate the view of the truth the Steward saw. In this Denethor has proved his resolve and will to be greater than Saruman, who thought himself to surely be the greatest of the Istari.

That, though is likely what wrought Saruman's doom and saved Denethor from all but himself. All Denethor did up until his despair broke him completely, was for Gondor. He was willing to sacrifice everything for his people. He did sacrifice the happiness and life of his wife. He was willing to sacrifice his line's future, his sons, if it would help. He sacrificed his state of mind and longevity in using the palantir. And for Gondor he did it all.

I could continue on in this manner for a great deal longer. Every action every word can be pulled apart and analyzed but I shall not take up your time by doing so. In the end, yes he would seem to have failed. In the end he is remembered for all the ill seeming things he had done. Anything positive is forgotten. Another thing, you will never hear me say that any of this _justifies_ his mistreatment of Faramir, merely remember that in truth he did not hate the boy, he loved him. Also, all you girls who love Boromir... just you remember that it is said how fair and beautiful he was, and that he was thought to look amazingly like his father.

My reason for doing this is to say: Do not ever think to tell me who is deserving of my pity, my compassion and loyalty. Choose for yourself to withhold such things, it is your right. But never think yourself so great that you can take it upon yourself to condemn, even when you believe your understanding to be complete. There is always something you do not know, something you have overlooked or forgotten to take into consideration.

Some good CoE links on Denethor:
Denethor son of Ecthelion Essay by Nienna-of-the-Valar

Denethor Thread in the Books Forum

This lovely pic was extracted for me by LadyRanger! And Credit to NenyaGold for editing Grima and Denethor rants.