Welcome Guest 

Register

Author Topic:
atalante_star
Scholar of Imladris and Theodens Lady
Posts: 1365
Send Message
Avatar
Post Halls of Mandos
on: December 16, 2003 01:56
This is more of an imagination question, as I'm *fairly* sure that there isn't a good description of the Halls of Mandos in the books.

I know it says somewhere that the Halls were split into "Chambers" for the different races, and that's about all the actual *facts* I know about the place.

So .... thinking about the Elven "chamber", do you think all the elves could wander around and talk to each other? or that they had little rooms in which they could think about their lives, and repent if necessary, before the next stage of their life began.

If they could walk around and chat, as it were, then any repentence process could take so much longer, but on the other hand, would repentence be complete until the elf concerned could talk to others about his/her life and the effects his/her life had.....?

And what happened to Fëanor? Was he in solitary confinement?????
arb
Council Member
Posts: 3
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 16, 2003 02:45
I think I remember reading somewhere that elvish souls tend to keep to themselves and only commune with those they had special bonds with in life, ie spouses and relatives. Given that most of Finwe's descendants are in the Halls of Mandos and that they were pretty much doomed to stay there for a long time, they at least had some company. There is actually a passage in HoME where Finwe and Miriel commune after he was killed by Morgoth. He agrees to stay in Mandos forever so she can live.

atalante_star
Scholar of Imladris and Theodens Lady
Posts: 1365
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 16, 2003 08:07
oh, there are definately some instances of meetings in the Halls. Miriel and Finwe, Luthien and Beren etc. I wonder if those are the exceptions to the rule, though, rather than the norm.
Nienna-of-the-Valar
Loremaster of the Edain
Posts: 578
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 16, 2003 10:35
Urngol-Rumil said: Yes, Atalante_star, he is in solitary confinement; Feanor is sitting right know, in a far corner of the Halls of Mandos with a big dunce hat on his head!

Seriously now, do you think you could stand it, waiting in the Halls of Mandos for extremely long lengths of time just thinking about your life? Yeah, elves can do it, but what about men and hobbits?

Nienna-of-the-Valar: *Nienna comes and stands next to Fëanor and removes the dunce hat and rips it into a million pieces* Grrrrrrr Fëanor sure is taking a beating this week...we should have a good Fëanor debate thread here somewhere... :love:

I would imagine that meetings in the halls of Mandos were rare. They aren't supposed to be there to be happy and talk to each other. I would imagine it is a very solemn place where everyone really keeps to themselves.

I think that each person has a different amount of time they spend there as well...say if someone was slain in battle, fighting for the good guys, I think they would spend little time in the HoM...but someone who was lead astray and turned from the right path, like Fëanor, would have to remain a very long time, or forever, to really repent and make amends with the Valar for what they had done.

I also was under the impression that Men (and so I guess that may include Hobbits) would only stay there a short time and then pass on to whatever awaits them after death...but I have no reference for that right now.

[Edited on 29/12/2007 by cirdaneth]
Este
Council Member
Posts: 91
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 17, 2003 06:20
Interesting topic...My impression is that the Halls of Mandos are some sort of purgatory for Elves,a place where they could repent their mistakes and,when pure enough,be reincarnated again.It was probably a really serious place,where Elves didn`t lose time sitting around for nothing,but used it for thinking about everything they`ve gone through...a kind of place that doesn`t sound too pleasant to me.I suppose they only talked to the people they knew and had something important to discuss with about their (previous)life...I can`t really imagine the Halls of Mandos filled with Elves happily chatting with everyone they see either.
That brings me to another question that`s been bugging me...when Elves exit the Halls,and are reincarnated again,do they look the same they did before and remember their previous life...actually,do they remain the person they were before,or do they become someone else?Any ideas?
daffadowndilly
Council Member
Posts: 26
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 18, 2003 04:47
I sort of think Men go to wherever the Ainur are and wait for the end of the world to make the second music. I think time would sort of pass differently so it wouldn't seem like such a long time. I think Beren was at Mandos because Luthien told him to wait there. But if anyone reads anything that says men stay in Mandos tell me!
Ioreth_Fimbrethil
Council Member
Posts: 21
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 31, 2003 03:12
This is my very personal view on elves and I hope it'll make sense.
Arda was created by music. When I listen to some music I actually feel things taking shape around me and so this part of the ME mythology fascinates me. It took a word from Ëa to make these things real, so they are like say "solid music"?

Elves in my mind are like a manifestation from this other dimension a bit like when you intersect two 4 dimensional planes (getting a bit scientifical here). They have a material exsitence but not of the same kind as men or hobbits.

When they die they cease to exist in the material plane but linger on like a song lingers on in the back of your mind. I never pictured the halls of Mandos as an actual place with people in it. I see it more like another musical theme and every time a new elven soul join them the theme has a new melody.

Does that make sense? It does tome at least
Oitur
Council Member
Posts: 17
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: February 15, 2004 11:21
If a wizard (like gandalf or saruman)is slain and they are not permitted to return, do they go to the halls of mandos or do they have a special "place" set up for them like the elves?

[Edited on 16/2/2004 by Oitur]
Morwinyoniel
Gallery Admin & Realm Head of Estë
Posts: 1637
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: February 16, 2004 12:28
As the wizards are basically Maiar - sort of angelic beings - I would think that, if their physical body was slain, their spirit would go straight back to Valinor. The fate of Saruman, who had fallen to the enemy's side and therefore wasn't allowed to return, is probably to roam in Middle Earth as a houseless spirit, powerless and with no possibility to re-embodiment.
celebrin_uial
Council Member
Posts: 9
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: July 18, 2006 08:37
On Mandos ( i think thats the name of the actual halls Right? The Vala was referenced by that name much the same way The Greek God of the Underworld was referenced by Hades even though that was teh name of his realm.) Anyway I always envisioned it as a place of shadow where spirits wander aimlessly looking for something (eg enlightenment or repentence) whether they speak to one another is a matter of personal belief.
However like in purgatory they are there as a waiting room of sorts before re-embodiment. Reincarnation i think implies that they are reborn into the world in a different form, a different body. However if one takes Glorfindel into account he is not in a different body rather he is the same person through and through. Therefore I think its re-embodiment not true reincarnation. Arwen is probably an example of reincarnation at least to a point. Luthien's soul was made mortal therefore it went where mortal souls go- never again to be reunited with her elven kind; however i think in Elrond's decision to become an elf that bit of soul passed on through childbirth regained its elvishness and Luthien's soul, albeit muted and not altogether whole, was reincarnated in Arwen (in some ways doomed to the same fate as her predecessor). Im not sure if that made sense, but we are talking life and death here.

[Edited on 29/12/2007 by cirdaneth]
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: December 28, 2009 10:17
I'm bumping this old thread about the Halls of Mandos as it could be of current interest.
musicofainur
Council Member
Posts: 8
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: January 02, 2010 02:40
This is one fascinating thread!

...and dying they [Elves] are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return. But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world; wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers.

Then,
What may befall their spirits after death the Elves know not. Some say that they [Men] too go to the halls of Mandos; but their place of waiting there is not that of the Elves, and Mandos under Ilúvatar alone save Manwë knows whither they go after the time of recollection in those silent halls beside the Outer Sea.

Adds are done by me.

I've always regarded "some say they they too go to the halls of Mandos" as a rumor. A conjecture that is never approved of its certainty by others to the elves.
My knowledge outside of the The Silm is insufficient to comment on the other questions.

[Edited on 3/1/2010 by musicofainur]
Ashbrook
Council Member
Posts: 61
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: January 02, 2010 05:29
This is my very personal view on elves and I hope it'll make sense.
Arda was created by music. When I listen to some music I actually feel things taking shape around me and so this part of the ME mythology fascinates me. It took a word from Ëa to make these things real, so they are like say "solid music"?

Elves in my mind are like a manifestation from this other dimension a bit like when you intersect two 4 dimensional planes (getting a bit scientifical here). They have a material exsitence but not of the same kind as men or hobbits.

When they die they cease to exist in the material plane but linger on like a song lingers on in the back of your mind. I never pictured the halls of Mandos as an actual place with people in it. I see it more like another musical theme and every time a new elven soul join them the theme has a new melody.

Does that make sense? It does tome at least


Pinpointed my opinion.
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Halls of Mandos
on: November 05, 2010 10:02
It is only the disembodied spirits of Elves that go to the Halls of Waiting in Mandos, so any 'spacial' experience they may have there is of the 'virtual' kind. I would imagine that the nature of their experience there is controlled partly by Mandos, for teaching/healing/comforting purposes, and partly by the individual Elf either reactively or proactively depending on how their posthumous development is progressing.

I've read that they tend to keep to themselves, and if they do interact with other spirits it is usually with people to whom they had strong ties in life. As this would be ina kind of dream-state, I wonder if the other spirit is always aware of the interaction, or whether it is 'manufactured' by Mandos, for teaching purposes.

Tolkien says somewhere that the houseless spirit of a slain elf is summoned by Mandos, and must go of its own free will. Some refuse. Not a good idea. The term of its sojourn in the Halls of Waiting is decided initially by Mandos, but at the end of that time they may choose not to be re-embodied. I would imagine that those who choose to remain (like Miriel) actually have more contact with each other.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email