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Rivka
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Post Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: February 16, 2004 07:58
Council of Elrond has implemented a guideline requiring all new site members be at least 13 years of age, so that we can comply with the COPPA (Child Online Privacy and Protection Act). This is a USA-regulation and since our server is based in the USA, we have to comply with it.
If we find out you are under the age of 13, your account will be deleted. This is to protect both you, and the site, and there will be no exceptions (except in the case as explained hereunder).

Important remark
Due to the site change-over in 2012, there was no automated check of a member's age during registration in 2012. Anyone who registered in this year and who is not 13 yet, will be able to keep their account. This exception is only made in this particular case. In order to keep your account, you have to send a signed permission from your parents to the site owner Rivka. Please contact Rivka for more details if this exception applies to you.


[Edited on 28/3/2004 by Rivka]
[Edited on 29/12/2012 by gondolinian]
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
lalludar
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: February 29, 2004 02:01
under 13? as in 12 and lower, right? if your 13 your good, right? sorry, but some people say under 13 and they mean ages 13 and under.
Aowyn
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 07, 2004 02:40
Council of Elrond recently implemented a new guideline requiring all new site members be at least 13 years of age


We're talking about people under 13
lalludar
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 12, 2004 04:56
ok, thanx
Laitina
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 09, 2004 11:40
Erm, this might be a stupid question, but what if they're turning 13 that year? Is it determined by the exact month, or just by year?
Rivka
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 10, 2004 09:30
It's determined by the moment at which they click the "Register" link. If they're 13 at that time, then fine. If not, then no. They'll have to wait until they actually turn 13.
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
nedhieth
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 14, 2004 09:42
protect them from what?
Aowyn
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 14, 2004 10:09
here's a website on COPPA:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm
lotrfan5822
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 26, 2004 12:34
i think it should be up to the childs parents to decide if thier kid can sign up
Rivka
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 26, 2004 09:00
i think it should be up to the childs parents to decide if thier kid can sign up


Well... it's not. It's the law -- blame the lawmakers You have to be over 13, or have a specific form filled out by the parents, but ultimately, it's up to the site to decide if they want to allow those forms or not, which we are no longer doing. We gave everyone who was currently a member 6 weeks to get the forms filled out, which is plenty of time. We are not allowing any new members under 13, because quite frankly, having to deal with the bureaucracy of receiving and filing forms from a bunch of members in the mail is too time consuming, and can be better spent on other areas of the site. Anyone who is under 13 can still view the areas of the site -- they just can't become members, or post on the site.

Get used to it. Many, many other sites are becoming aware of this law, and starting to institute similar policies. If they haven't done it yet, they really ought to. You just have the misfortune of having a head admin who stays on top of these laws, and absolutely requires that we adhere to them.
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 26, 2004 11:29
I understand the frustration of the under 13's, but well said Rivka.

Perhaps if more Laws, if not *all*, were adhered to, we wouldn't have the problems we now suffer from in Society and the World.
Saeran
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 28, 2004 05:00
They could just lie, you know. The cookies in this joint aren't that good to be able to tell. It's a question of moral and such, I guess. I have no worries, tho.
Gildor-Inglorion
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: April 28, 2004 05:25
Im not a lawyer but by clicking the "I'm 13 or over" button he/she has made a legal statement that he/she can and will be held responsible for. Something to think about at least for all those thinking about lying.
Vanya
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: May 08, 2004 07:03
I have a question. My friend wants to join, but she is only twelve, so if I have her a copy of that form, could she have her parents fill it out and join? I know the deadline has passed long ago for the form, but she really wants to join!
Saturn
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 07, 2004 07:43
so, mostly what COPPA is used because the lawmakers think that kids 12 and under will give out too much info on themselves to strangers. that's kind of stupid. usually kids about 8 to 9 and up are smarter than that.
BelleBayard
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 07, 2004 08:05
Should be, might be, but too many stories of really bad things happening without parents' knowledge has led to such a law. We must comply. The enormity of processing the forms makes doing this very difficult. In order to allow those who came before and around the time COPPA came onto the books, Rivka allowed those under 13 already here to fill them out, have their parents sign, and send them in. This entire site is volunteer. We don't get paid, most of us either work, go to school, or do both. We can't always be around to police people. Even with the large number of admins and mods, things can slip by and become a problem. Please, believe us when we say we wish it were different. However, in order to remain online, we must comply with the law and have closed the window to apply long ago. Unless something amazing happens and COPPA goes away (which I do not foresee), those under 13 cannot join us, only read as a guest. So very sorry. It also has to do with inappropriate chat rooms and content which parents may or may not approve of. As much as we try to be family friendly, we are large enough that constant monitoring isn't always possible

Thank you.
AnironEllessar
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 13, 2004 04:45
i don't mean to be a bugger, but i have noticed around the site some members who have openly stated that they are under 13. and i have kindly reminde them about this thread. and i was wondering. are you only deleting the accounts of new members under the age of 13? or even those that were already signed up before you posted this thread?
seles
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 14, 2004 05:02
however, between members and guests, there really isn't a significant difference in exposure to PG-13 materials. i've always thought that rule to be a little redundant, and if i were 13 right now, i'd lie just to have the priviledges the older members would continue to enjoy. but like said above, the law is the law, and there's nothin that the admin can do about it and if underaged preteens choose to break it, the site cannot be held responsible for any mishaps.
BelleBayard
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 14, 2004 09:23
AnironEllessar: There are those who filled out the forms when the window was open. Those are the only authorized folks. However, we do not have the staff to constantly police things. We do our best, but at times people slip through the cracks. They'll get caught eventually, but they are putting the entire site at risk. They need to realize they are breaking the law by signing up for a site that specifically states no one under 13 allowed unless they joined and filled out the proper legal form during the time we accepted them. Too many people are law suit happy. *sigh*
TheElvenPrincess
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: July 19, 2004 07:27
Well, I'm 13 now but I signed up, like, four days before my birthday. It's too late for me to registere again. Lol.
briseis_orqu_apollo
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: August 03, 2004 11:21
I've heard many really awkward, yet tragic stories of kids who give away too much info on the net, but usually those stories are about children who are 13 or 14. There's always a leak in the law!
galadriel_evenstar_idril
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: August 04, 2004 02:25
so many people accidentally give away private information over the internet, yet it doesn't really matter what age they are, cos its still the same thing. Lots of people tend to lie about their age because they think no-one will find out. But if their parents already know that their underage child is going onto www.councilofelrond.com and that they know they are going on forums and such, it wouldn't matter unless they were really slow, and gave away information. But then again, it would be at their own risk and if something unexpected happens, the site can't be held responsible because they would be breaking the law in the first place, and so would their parents.
Merry_Pippin_8
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 06, 2005 07:58
Just wondering, how do you know whether people are over 13 or not? I am over 13, and have been so for a few years, but I just wanted to know how you know people's ages. Do you hack into our privite info? *feels uncomfortable.*
Ninjoo
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 06, 2005 11:53
Also just wondering; This is American legislation, right? Does this legislation also counts for children and sites from other countries?
Belthronding
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 07, 2005 04:38
galadriel_evenstar_idril, I think they just trust us to make the right choice.
Rivka
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 07, 2005 09:48
We trust you to not lie And if you say anywhere publicly on the site (such as in the forums or in chat) that you are under 13, then we remove your account. There is no way for us to magically know if you are under age, and even if we could somehow "hack into your private info" we would not do so. We have a privacy statement, which can be read here.

Ninjoo, the law applies to everyone visiting this site, regardless of where they come from, because the site server is located in the United States, and is therefore under U.S. jurisdiction. The law does not apply to other sites, unless their servers are also located in the U.S.
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
merevindur
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 30, 2005 02:10
I am alright then, at 32 years of age i must be one of the oldest on here.

I am having a great look around and i find that the more forums i post on the more i notice the difference in the age groups for those interested in LOTR.

It still amazes me now.
BelleBayard
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: June 30, 2005 02:38
LOL... Nope, not by a long shot. There's a ton of us over 40! Hehehe... I'm 52, soon to be 53 and I'm not alone. That's one thing of many that's nice about this place.
DaughterofNimrodel
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: July 07, 2005 04:29
I would like to point out thatRivka and the Admins did not create this law and if they did not follow it it would be their butts in a sling. It really should not be expected of Rivka or the others to take that risk. It's very sad that our world needs such laws but you must understand that they are for our children's protection.

I know we all want to think nothing will happen but the fact is that bad things can and do happen, even to the best and most mature of 12 year olds. It's not an attack on younger people or a matter of wanting to exclude them. Besides, it seems far off now but eventually you will reach the age of 13, and trust me it will happen faster than you think.

Of course I've been gone for so long that this is probably old news. I just thought that people should realize that by disregarding the law it would be Rivka in trouble.
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~Shire_Hobbit~
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: February 06, 2006 03:00
Eek! I was under 13 when I signed up, and I think I may have said it on here somewhere, but I am almost 14 now. I can't still get in trouble can I?
heir~of~valar
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 05, 2006 02:18
i must be the youngest on here and I turned 14 on the 7th of feb

steph
BelleBayard
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: March 05, 2006 10:36
I don't believe so, ~Shire_Hobbit~, but you can ask Rivka. I'm not all that up on it as far as if one can get in trouble for joining in the past when under 13. We try to be vigilant so we don't get taken to court, but there are so many members and forums sometimes slip by us. Thanks for being concerned though.
frodofan14
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: November 26, 2007 04:01
my lttle sister ( 9 years old) is dying to join. ive told her over and over again that she must wait till she's 13 but doesnt belive me when i say its against the law. can you like post a link to an article about the law so i can print it for her?
BelleBayard
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: November 27, 2007 04:15
Here's a link that a former mod posted on the first page back in 2004 (dang, has it really been 3 years since then?).

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm
frodofan14
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Post RE: Members Under the Age of 13 -- PLEASE READ
on: November 28, 2007 10:37
ok thanks ill show it to her.
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