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atalante_star
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Post Maeglin and the Doom of the Noldor
on: March 04, 2004 03:25
"From his first days in Gondolin he [Maeglin] had borne a grief, ever worsening, that robbed him of all joy; he loved the beauty of Idril and desired her, without hope. The Eldar wedded not with kin so near, nor ever before had any desired to do so. And however that might be, Idril loved Maeglin not at all; and knowing his thought of her she loved him the less. For it seemed to her a thing strange and crooked in him, as indeed the Eldar ever since have deemed it; an evil fruit of the Kinslaying, whereby the shadow of the curse of Mandos fell upon the last hope of the Noldor. But as the years passed still Maeglin watched Idril, and waited, and his love turned to darkness in his heart. And he sought the more to have his will in other matters, shirking no toil or burden, if he might thereby have power.

Thus it was in Gondolin; and amid all the bliss of that realm, while its glory lasted, a dark seed of evil was sown."

There seems to be some interesting things here ....

Maeglin is a grandchild of Fingolfin, and everyone else in his blood family are shown pretty much as heroes. Then there's Maeglin ....

- The description of Maeglin up above reminds me somewhat of Fëanor ... Through writing that recent article on Finwë's sons, the notion of rejected / unavailable love seems to me to keep cropping up in the problems of the Noldor.

- Can the effects of the Doom of the Noldor still be seen in the Third Age? What about Celebrían's traumas and the return to Valinor - ripping her family apart in the process? What about Galadriel and Celeborn being separated (for ever? or just for a time?) when she sailed West. Are these just coincidental tragedies, or the Doom of the Noldor in full effect ....?

[Edited on 13/10/2007 by cirdaneth]
Eressëa
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Post RE: Maeglin and the Doom of the Noldor
on: March 05, 2004 04:02
Good quote I felt such a sadness and chill when first I read it....
Maeglin is a grandchild of Fingolfin, and everyone else in his blood family are shown pretty much as heroes. Then there's Maeglin ....

But Maeglin is also the son of Eöl, right (or have my memory been tricked me). And he was definently not a nice fellow. He almost forced Aredhel to marry him, and anyway he cast a spell on her to get her, he didn't ask politely. Mayhap some of this evilness or cruelty was transferred unto Maeglin. Maeglin has not had a wondeful life, and I think it very likely that there was not much love between his parents, he might have been touched by that in some way.
As for how he fell in love with Idril, my guess is that in her he saw peace and quiet and beauty, some sort of ideal to him. Tranquility and comfort -he must see her as her dream girl. She is also one of the first Elves that he sees, and she is a female Elf. he probably knows at first that she is unreachable, but some of the malicious bits of him comes forward and he is driven by lust.
the notion of rejected / unavailable love seems to me to keep cropping up in the problems of the Noldor.

It might be part of the Noldo Doom. The dooms has a way to make ill things happen in even small drops. The problem is that what at first seems harmless and such grows to be something uncontrollable and a way for Evil to arise -that it how it goes for Maeglin and his love....
- Can the effects of the Doom of the Noldor still be seen in the Third Age?

Hmm, I think that the effects of the Doom of the Noldor can be seen in the Third Age, although the Doom was lifted, the wheel of events that had already begun spinning couldn't be set to a halt just like that. The consequences of the past actions cannot be avoided or escaped from. Galadriels parting from Celeborn is an effect of the Doom, she knew that at some point she would have to return to Valinor but she had married Celeborn whom she loved -but unlike him she had seen the light of the Trees and been in Aman, she wouldn't be able to settle with fading away in ME, so unless he followed her later on, she would have to be parted from him. It is just grievous twist that the Doom took, although it was lifted scars and wounds wouldn't heel. It is like war, it is horrorble while war is happening but it is just as bad when war is over and you see the chaos that is left.....
Are these just coincidental tragedies, or the Doom of the Noldor in full effect ....?

I doubt Tolkien would ever have anything happen unless there were some cause or another, I'm not saying that everything had to happen for some great reason, but I don't think he would want people to suffer if there weren't any need for it at all.... But still, as I've already said, I don't think that the Doom of the Noldor is working at its will anymore -past happenings just have to end and some of them end sad because they hold their root in a time when the Doom was still in action....
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Maeglin and the Doom of the Noldor
on: October 12, 2007 10:35
I'm bumping this thread from 2004 for further discussion ... so off you go!!
Ilandir
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Post RE: Maeglin and the Doom of the Noldor
on: October 13, 2007 08:24
Wow this is old! hehe. thanks cirdaneth for bumping this thread ... very interesting.

Well I do believe that the Doom of the Noldor affected, not only those in the First age, but kept on repeating itself unto the Third Age. As was Valinor rejected to the Noldor after Feanor's rebellion and kept on being sort-of a law, so I believe that this Doom that affected how the elves lived kept on happening until nearly all the Elves passed into the West.

Only then, when Men took over Middle-Earth, was the Doom released and forever ended.

This is just my thought at what Tolkien might have though about this matter.
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Maeglin and the Doom of the Noldor
on: October 25, 2009 05:22
I'm wondering about the early 20thC social influences on Tolkien himself. People all around him were torn apart by war, death and even emigration usually meant a permanent parting in those days.

From the age of four Tolkien had known that the great sea lay between himself and his father. He had sailed it himself, from South Africa to England, only to learn that there would be no returning. Perhaps, until he was old enough to understand about death, he imagined his father still living in Bloemfontein.

After WW1, Tolkien and everyone around him was affected by bereavement, and the many ways people deal with it. The worst effect was bitterness, mixed with envy, and unacknowledged guilt. It was not something you could speak about, and often turned dark and destructive.

Concerning the close blood relationship between Idril and Maeglin, we need to remember that Tolkien's Roman Catholic Church had a longer list of forbiden marriage partners than the Church of England, and Tolkien had probably seen the pain and bitterness it could cause when cousins wished to marry. If they did they were excommunicated ... believed to mean a permanent parting beyond death.

Could it be that Tolkien wove the "cold mother" and "bitter cousin" themes into his work along with the "ever-parted" fear that haunted him?
cirdaneth
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on: September 27, 2015 04:59
*bump
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